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Model Y - Gigafactory Texas Production

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#201
Stook02ss said:
X4M is much faster, handles better and brakes better. I understand it taking the crown in handling and braking (its lighter), but with a 0-60 of 3.3 and 1/4 of 11.6, it absolutely crushes the MYP in straight line performance. It crushes it... and for only about 10k more (a bargain when you consider the handling, braking and luxury).

This just isn't the case with the BMW M3. For over 15k more the base BMW M3 is slower than the M3P. The upgraded M3, for 25-35k more, is roughly the same as the M3P... and the M3P has a track option. It can actually handle lol.

The MYP needs the 4680 in order to up its game. It's clear you aren't up to date on these things... which is fine since I'm guessing you aren't in the market for a MYP. I and others however are... and for me it'd be nice to at least match Germany's ICE offerings in acceleration like the rest of the Tesla lineup.

www.caranddriver.com

BMW X4 M and X3 M Are Insanely Quick

The Bavarian siblings are two of the quickest SUVs we've ever tested.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
Click to expand...
Apples and Oranges, dude.

Why don't you do a comparison with an EV rather than an ICE toy.

The BMW iX starts at $83K and has the exact same performance and range as a MYLR, and gets put to shame by a MYP.
BMW will let you spend as much as $95K on it if you're stupid.

But I'll give you the fit, finish, and accoutrements of a mainline german car mamnufacturer. Puts Tesla to shame.
 
#202
advocate8 said:
Tesla absolutely will increase the car’s range. The only question is how much. Might just be 10 miles EPA, might be a lot.
Click to expand...
OK, let's make a wager. :)

Any range gain from a new chassis build on the MY will be due to weight savings.
Battery pack kWh will remain virtually the same as that currently delivered - 82kWh.

Tesla wants to get 1.5M vehicles delivered in 2022.
Battery availability will be key. Making a deeper battery pack inhibits that goal.
Adding cost inhibits that goal. Raising the MSRP inhibits that goal.

That's my PoV and I'm staying with it !!!!!!!!
 
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#203
tangible1 said:
Apples and Oranges, dude.

Why don't you do a comparison with an EV rather than an ICE toy.

The BMW iX starts at $83K and has the exact same performance and range as a MYLR, and gets put to shame by a MYP.
BMW will let you spend as much as $95K on it if you're stupid.

But I'll give you the fit, finish, and accoutrements of a mainline german car mamnufacturer. Puts Tesla to shame.
Click to expand...
I'll bet most people shopping for a MYP, M3P or even Model S (of any type) are cross shopping against ICE... and as such Teslas typically (with the exception of the MYP) outperform them in acceleration. It's apples to oranges to you, to fans of performance cars it isn't. I'm looking ro move on from S line Audis and AMG Mercedes... I don't give two shits what BMWs EVs do, I care what the vehicle I'd consider instead of a Tesla can do.

It's pretty easy to showcase btw... you'd know this is what matters if you spoke to people who have bought/ordered MYPs and even M3Ps. Most aren't coming from EVs... they are coming from high-performance ICE cars.
 
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#205
Range is king for LR. Performance is king for P. If they find the right balance you can dip into both buckets at a premium. The M3P does this. The MYP needs a little bit more of the P to be in that class.
 
#206
Stook02ss said:
I'll bet most people shopping for a MYP, M3P or even Model S (of any type) are cross shopping against ICE... and as such Teslas typically (with the exception of the MYP) outperform them in acceleration. It's apples to oranges to you, to fans of performance cars it isn't. I'm looking ro move on from S line Audis and AMG Mercedes... I don't give two shits what BMWs EVs do, I care what the vehicle I'd consider instead of a Tesla can do.

It's pretty easy to showcase btw... you'd know this is what matters if you spoke to people who have bought/ordered MYPs and even M3Ps. Most aren't coming from EVs... they are coming from high-performance ICE cars.
Click to expand...
There are as many ways to evaluate a car purchase as there are people making that decision.

I'd say that, overall, the most important question is - why is anyone looking at an EV as a consideration?
That says people aren't only interested in performance. Certainly it's a factor, but.....not the be-all end-all.

Just 4 years ago, 2017, Tesla sold all of 100K cars. This year, 2021, Tesla delivered 930K cars.
What changed?
It wasn't all about performance.

For me personally, a performance vehicle is useless on the street. Laws, reality, and just plain traffic make it untenable.
A better choice is to build/buy a racercar, go to the track, learn to drive and compete. Safer, faster, much more fun. Really.
That's what I did for 10 years. (the most time-consuming hobby ever, BTW)

As Ferris Bueller once stated: "if you have the means, I highly recommend it".
If you have the means to consider a $95K BMW, perhaps you should consider a racecar. (make it a Porsche) YMMV :)
 
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#210
tangible1 said:
There are as many ways to evaluate a car purchase as there are people making that decision.

I'd say that, overall, the most important question is - why is anyone looking at an EV as a consideration?
That says people aren't only interested in performance. Certainly it's a factor, but.....not the be-all end-all.

Just 4 years ago, 2017, Tesla sold all of 100K cars. This year, 2021, Tesla delivered 930K cars.
What changed?
It wasn't all about performance.

For me personally, a performance vehicle is useless on the street. Laws, reality, and just plain traffic make it untenable.
A better choice is to build/buy a racercar, go to the track, learn to drive and compete. Safer, faster, much more fun. Really.
That's what I did for 10 years. (the most time-consuming hobby ever, BTW)

As Ferris Bueller once stated: "if you have the means, I highly recommend it".
If you have the means to consider a $95K BMW, perhaps you should consider a racecar. (make it a Porsche) YMMV :)
Click to expand...
Thats fine, and for someone like you I doubt you'd even consider spending more for less range... which is exactly what people who buy Performance and Plaid cars are doing. They are spending 8-30+% more for 10% less range and a harsher ride. People like this (me) care more about over-all performance than the average LR buyer... we aren't shopping just because we want to save money.

That said, money comes into it, which is why getting more straight-line performance for less is a huge perk.

Even more though I'd like a better handling vehicle... something I can really push on the ramps and backroads if I'm feeling the urge. This here is a big reason I'd love to see the vehicle shed 5-10% of its mass!

As for your other comments. I did have a dedicated fun car in years past. Not a dedicated track car, but a 2 seater of one type or another. I don't have the time, money, or driveway space to get what I want again. So, instead of dropping $20-40k on a fun car like I have in the past, I'm balancing my priorities by spending $5k more to get a still sporty and fast vehicle that checks most of the boxes. In the past I'd buy a new mid-teir sport SUV like the SQ5 or a used X4M/RS5/CLS63 (oddball out)... a compromise based on where I could afford. My hope is that with the Tesla I can get better performance for less without paying a markup. My hope... I've accepted that I'll get a vehicle with the current specs, but a guy can hope for more.

I don't want to tie up this thread more than we have, so Ill make this my last post on the topic. That said, to bring my comments full circle, my belief is that the benefits inherent to a lighter vehicle sell the P more than they sell the LR because those shopping for a P are interested in the overall performance package more than the regular LR buyer that's primarily interested in range.

Also, I think that it makes sense for them to shift all P production first, when supply of the 4680 is limited. They can do so without needing to be concerned about producing more than one type of the same car. That makes more sense to me than producing the LR in two different locations with different components.
 
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#211
Stook02ss said:
Thats fine, and for someone like you I doubt you'd even consider spending more for less range... which is exactly what people who buy Performance and Plaid cars are doing. They are spending 8-30+% more for 10% less range and a harsher ride. People like this (me) care more about over-all performance than the average LR buyer... we aren't shopping just because we want to save money.

That said, money comes into it, which is why getting more straight-line performance for less is a huge perk.

Even more though I'd like a better handling vehicle... something I can really push on the ramps and backroads if I'm feeling the urge. This here is a big reason I'd love to see the vehicle shed 5-10% of its mass!

As for your other comments. I did have a dedicated fun car in years past. Not a dedicated track car, but a 2 seater of one type or another. I don't have the time, money, or driveway space to get what I want again. So, instead of dropping $20-40k on a fun car like I have in the past, I'm balancing my priorities by spending $5k more to get a still sporty and fast vehicle that checks most of the boxes. In the past I'd buy a new mid-teir sport SUV like the SQ5 or a used X4M/RS5/CLS63 (oddball out)... a compromise based on where I could afford. My hope is that with the Tesla I can get better performance for less without paying a markup. My hope... I've accepted that I'll get a vehicle with the current specs, but a guy can hope for more.

I don't want to tie up this thread more than we have, so Ill make this my last post on the topic. That said, to bring my comments full circle, my belief is that the benefits inherent to a lighter vehicle sell the P more than they sell the LR because those shopping for a P are interested in the overall performance package more than the regular LR buyer that's primarily interested in range.

Also, I think that it makes sense for them to shift all P production first, when supply of the 4680 is limited. They can do so without needing to be concerned about producing more than one type of the same car. That makes more sense to me than producing the LR in two different locations with different components.
Click to expand...
Well, we both get to see what Tesla does.
Done and out !!!
 
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#212
tangible1 said:
OK, let's make a wager. :)

Any range gain from a new chassis build on the MY will be due to weight savings.
Battery pack kWh will remain virtually the same as that currently delivered - 82kWh.

Tesla wants to get 1.5M vehicles delivered in 2022.
Battery availability will be key. Making a deeper battery pack inhibits that goal.
Adding cost inhibits that goal. Raising the MSRP inhibits that goal.

That's my PoV and I'm staying with it !!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
I would buy that car! That is totally rational and sane. Makes most sense of any option probably...But Tesla always outsmarts me, so it will do something else. Any range gain from weight savings would be pretty minimal, especially in the real world where people drive above the EPA test speeds and so aerdoynamics becomes all but the whole ball game.
The WAG 10 miles gain I refer to was my thinking of what weight savings might do, so kind of the bottom end of what I’d expect.
I personally want as much weight out of the car as possible. The weight is the sole thing that keeps EVs from making a complete mockery out of ICE cars now. Already EV has edge I acceleration, (potentially) operating costs etc. Just struggles with handling because of the weight. They ain’t exactly Lotuses on twisty roads.
 
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#213
Stook02ss said:
X4M is much faster, handles better and brakes better. I understand it taking the crown in handling and braking (its lighter), but with a 0-60 of 3.3 and 1/4 of 11.6, it absolutely crushes the MYP in straight line performance. It crushes it... and for only about 10k more (a bargain when you consider the handling, braking and luxury).

This just isn't the case with the BMW M3. For over 15k more the base BMW M3 is slower than the M3P. The upgraded M3, for 25-35k more, is roughly the same as the M3P... and the M3P has a track option. It can actually handle lol.

The MYP needs the 4680 in order to up its game. It's clear you aren't up to date on these things... which is fine since I'm guessing you aren't in the market for a MYP. I and others however are... and for me it'd be nice to at least match Germany's ICE offerings in acceleration like the rest of the Tesla lineup.

www.caranddriver.com

BMW X4 M and X3 M Are Insanely Quick

The Bavarian siblings are two of the quickest SUVs we've ever tested.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
Click to expand...
If cost is any factor, the cost of gas makes these ICE premium guzzlers too expensive. At least in CA at $5+ for a gallon these days ($4 national average). Did a trip recently using super chargers for 600+ miles and cost was half what has would have cost in my old X3. Home charging at night on EV TOU rates or taking advantage of free workplace/municipal charging makes it cost even less to own.

Back on track, I think at the most Tesla will make the new 4680 packs 82kwh however I’d bet closer to 70kWh which with weight savings will give same range and better performance And have more resources for more packs.
 
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#214
Mrbrock said:
If cost is any factor, the cost of gas makes these ICE premium guzzlers too expensive. At least in CA at $5+ for a gallon these days ($4 national average). Did a trip recently using super chargers for 600+ miles and cost was half what has would have cost in my old X3. Home charging at night on EV TOU rates or taking advantage of free workplace/municipal charging makes it cost even less to own.

Back on track, I think at the most Tesla will make the new 4680 packs 82kwh however I’d bet closer to 70kWh which with weight savings will give same range and better performance And have more resources for more packs.
Click to expand...
I wonder who will be the first person to receive a 2022 Model Y Performance with the 4680 Battery Pack? Can't wait to see the first member to post they got one and love it!
 
#217
Has there been an official / Unofficial name announced for this next generation Giga-Pressed one piece casting frame with the 4160 battery pack? Are we calling the "MY2.0" or "MYP2"? I sure hope one roles out of Giga Austin and or Fremont very soon and Tesla gives us all a teaser video with some specs of the Speed and new expected range! 🤪
 
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