You can install our site as a web app on your iOS device by utilizing the Add to Home Screen feature in Safari. Please see this thread for more details on this.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Generally I agree with you but I would think that many more people are doing much more research before buying an EV.
When thinking about EV's I would think abou my rechargable batteries and how they went bad in a couple years in my phone or other devices . I needed to do that extra research to get past that . So understanding the batteries and the charging and then looking at the history and the warranty I was finally able to get past my hand held battery experience. Then where to charge, how long it takes, how temperture and weight impacts mileage.
I believe most other people have the same questions . I have had no such concerns about buying ICE vehicles in the past . So I think there will be a greater number of people who what to know about capacity, charging and longevity of the batteries, (at least until most people have had one)
As we know, you NEVER know with Tesla. They do what they're gonna do, and don't tell until it suits THEM. The blogs are purely puppets.
My "guess" is SEMI is being produced in prototype quantities to keep competition at bay (like for Pepsi), CT will happen when it happens, they've got time and 1M orders.
MY is the focus dejour because of the maturity of process and product, and because of the order backlog. Tesla wants to capture mucho Market Share ASAP
I'll check back next weekI stopped by my local Tesla SC this morning. The MY they hoped to receive yesterday is now believed to be coming in on Friday. They did receive a MY-P demo unit last week from Fremont, but the Austin MY demo is now expected this Friday. I'll check back this weekend and see if's really from Austin and not another Fremont MY.
don't let the cybertrucks wiper hit you on the way out ....I'll check back next week
Panasonic is on its own 4680 production ramp, curve. They asked Tesla if they could make 4680 batteries for them. Tesla, said, sure, why not! But Tesla had already been working on its own production. So, I don't think these time lines are linked. Plus, that is a leak, Panasonic has not confirmed anything. So we don't know anything about Panasonic's ramp, just rumors.Panasonic will reportedly start mass producing next-gen Tesla batteries in 2023
Tesla also hopes to produce the batteries in-house.www.theverge.com
So, do we really think with cells from Kato and maybe Austin that Austin is ready to mass produce 4680 Ys? Leads more credence to either a slow ramp at Austin (like China) or starting with 2170 cells. Or would these Panasonic 4680 strictly be in China for China and Berlin?
Also, circling back to cost reduction that people keep pointing to as to why Tesla will start with these immediately. The 14% reduction is in battery cost which in itself is 30% cost if the total vehicle. That means the cost reduction relation to the vehicle is 4.2%. If there is a 30% profit margin on the vehicles, that would equate to a reduction of base price by about $3500. Not insignificant but not as Much as many people make it seem.
I saw a report from the Fair they had at the Berlin Giga Factory that showed examples of both the 2170 and 4680 structural battery packs. So, the 4680, I expect will only ever be in the structural format, but the 2170's haven't been. I am assuming that either of these structural packs will be able to be installed on any production vehicle, but I am not certain that is true.If I understand correctly I don't think it's any big deal to have both 2170 and 4680 battery packs to put in the new model y cars. Elon seems to have said that the 2170 packs will use the same "structural" format, thus they should be interchangeable. That would mean they could be putting a 2170 pack in one car and a 4680 in the next. Whether or not the user could tell, is yet to be seen.
The 2170 is not a structural pack. They made a modified frame that can connect the front and rear megacasts and use 2170s, but this is different than a battery structure designed to eliminate an external frame (structural 4680).I saw a report from the Fair they had at the Berlin Giga Factory that showed examples of both the 2170 and 4680 structural battery packs. So, the 4680, I expect will only ever be in the structural format, but the 2170's haven't been. I am assuming that either of these structural packs will be able to be installed on any production vehicle, but I am not certain that is true.
which could make the MY end up even heavier than the current 2170 setup, or at least erase some of the modest weight savings of being able to use the front casting.The 2170 is not a structural pack. They made a modified frame that can connect the front and rear megacasts and use 2170s, but this is different than a battery structure designed to eliminate an external frame (structural 4680).
Tesla has stated that the Model Y casts can be used with either. The Cybertruck is fully dependent on 4680 structural AFAIK.
The 2170 is not a structural pack. They made a modified frame that can connect the front and rear megacasts and use 2170s, but this is different than a battery structure designed to eliminate an external frame (structural 4680).
Tesla has stated that the Model Y casts can be used with either. The Cybertruck is fully dependent on 4680 structural AFAIK.
The 2170 is not a structural pack. They made a modified frame that can connect the front and rear megacasts and use 2170s, but this is different than a battery structure designed to eliminate an external frame (structural 4680).
Tesla has stated that the Model Y casts can be used with either. The Cybertruck is fully dependent on 4680 structural AFAIK.
Someone will absolutely put it more elegantly... my background is in composite engineering rather than metals .... but a few things... If it is going to be plug and play for the later 4680, it will be too tall to work the same way with the shorter batteries, and need more internal structure. It’s also true that if you weren’t going to make the interim pack as thick (not likely), given the same material used to construct the two versions, the later thick (4680) one would be substantially stiffer in torsion etc.I believe you that "2170 is not a structural pack", but I'd really like to understand the science on that. Why is a 4680 rigid enough to give a pack structure, but a slightly smaller rigid steel can is not?
Help us, Jordan Giesige
There are a couple reasons the modified 2170 has been floated.The 2170 isn't a structural pack (as far as we know) . There is no reason they couldn't design a structural pack that used 2170 instead of 4680. The question is would they ...
I think it would be far more likely that they start building MY's only with a Structural battery pack then without. Can't see them modifying their assembly line process to build MY's the with a different process the they will be using in a few more months. A 2170 structural pack would still have some weight savings and let them use the exact same process but it would have had to of been crash tested etc... and again the question is do you go through all that design and testing for just a few months of manufacturing.
FACTI believe you that "2170 is not a structural pack", but I'd really like to understand the science on that. Why is a 4680 rigid enough to give a pack structure, but a slightly smaller rigid steel can is not?
Help us, Jordan Giesige
Yes, spot on. It is going to come down to current 4680 supply and production levels and short-term outlook for 4680 production as to what batteries Austin starts MY with. And those things are a mystery. Just hope they aren’t after tonight.FACT
It's about engineering, not science.
The 4680 battery pack is a structural element and put simply, replaces the floorpan on the MY v2.0 chassis. The batteries actually become stressed, structural elements.
The alternative 'backup plan' 2170 battery pack requires reinforcing to be added to the chassis floorpan, much as the current chassis has.
There are concept drawings, and photos from the Berlin Open House, showing these differences.
OPINION
4680 production has been delayed and the 2170 backup plan pack was a stopgap in case 4680 had real hiccups. Good engineering plan.
Both the Texas and Berlin factories have also been delayed.
Because the economics of the 4680 + F+R megacast v2.0 chassis is so advantageous, Tesla has waited for it, rather than rush alternatives out.
Consequently Tesla is not likely to use a 2170 battery pack in the refreshed, MY v2.0 chassis.
Why do 2 versions when the one makes much more profit than the other and is faster to build? The only reason might be constraints on 4680 production capacity.
My guess is we see very limited MY customer production from Austin starting in March. Look at China ramp-up history as a guide to what Austin might do going forward.
Not sure discussing the 4680 vs 2170 frame benefits is speculation since it’s already fact and the details are known, but sure.Wasting breathe or typing until Elon speaks today about production. Let’s wait for the messiah to speak today before speculation begins.
The germans are on their own... we are cutting them loose to fend for themselves battery-wise. I think I can speak for the others on the East Coast MY wait list on this.The earnings report says "These first vehicles will be built using 2170 cells." for gigafactory berlin
The earnings report says "These first vehicles will be built using 2170 cells." for gigafactory berlin
That's what I was thinking. I kind of figured Austin was the focus for the 4680's, but I'm not as up to date on this as many people.The germans are on their own... we are cutting them loose to fend for themselves battery-wise. I think I can speak for the others on the East Coast MY wait list on this.
I mean, I'm clowning around on that. But there pretty clearly has been intent to get the structural pack and front casting setup in place Austin from the beginning. And chassis created for that and packs have appeared in photos from there. That’s about all we have to work with for another 45 mins.That's what I was thinking. I kind of figured Austin was the focus for the 4680's, but I'm not as up to date on this as many people.