Model Y - Gigafactory Texas Production

[ZenRockGarden]

2170 and 4680 are types of battery cells. Either can go into battery pack. So the idea that somehow the a 2170 based battery pack is somehow inheiriantly less structural than a 4680 battery pack seems wrong, to me. At the Brandenburg Fair they showed off structural battery packs based on 2170 and 4680 cells. I believe that while Tesla ramps ups its 4680 cell production we will see cars being built with both of these cell types, but with the packs will all be structural.

Actually the 4680 cell casings were specifically designed to carry structural load (which is easier to accomplish with their larger diameter). 2170's are not intended to carry any structural load, they must be contained in framing that takes care of the mechanical load aspects of the pack.

 

[advocate8]

the larger physical structure and design of the 4680 makes it a more structurally stable design. When a 2170 is used in a structural casing to create a structural pack it requires more support (dead weight) than a 4680. Hence a 2170 structural pack has additional framing to provide the support.

A lot easier to say 4680 is a structural battery and 2170 requires additional framing.

Yup. And it def would require a structural casing because a 2170 pack for the new chassis would need to be plug and play with the 4680 pack, which by necessity would be thicker that 2170s require as 4680s are taller.

 

[thinktwice]

My prediction is that the 4680 packs will carry a similar amount of energy to the existing packs (82kW). Tesla will just software limit them initially to match the range of the MY coming out of Freemont. Then, once Freemont switches over to 4680, BOOM, they can software unlock the original Austin models to get more range.

I know this is all speculation here, but if this were to happen literally NOBODY would want the inferior Y's coming out of Fremont. I've got to think Tesla is smarter than that.

 

[Mateo83]

Seems a bunch of S and X outside Freemont, maybe one for you?

What's up with that last lot at about 8:00? Just a bunch of cars sitting

 

[Budshark]

I know this is all speculation here, but if this were to happen literally NOBODY would want the inferior Y's coming out of Fremont. I've got to think Tesla is smarter than that.

This is the part I don’t get. Why are they inferior? Does this make the Model S Plaid the most inferior because it had the oldest model batteries that the 2170 improved upon?

Taking complex multidimensional technologies and trying to boil it down to newer = better is such flawed logic. Every tech has pros and cons and Tesla is balancing these options to meet their needs.

4680 vs 2170 cell is a manufacturing decision and both options can create fundamentally similar cars. Just as Teslas most advanced vehicles can use its oldest battery cell.

4680 does not magically equal better Model Y.

 

[Stook02ss]

This is the part I don’t get. Why are they inferior? Does this make the Model S Plaid the most inferior because it had the oldest model batteries that the 2170 improved upon?

Taking complex multidimensional technologies and trying to boil it down to newer = better is such flawed logic. Every tech has pros and cons and Tesla is balancing these options to meet their needs.

4680 vs 2170 cell is a manufacturing decision and both options can create fundamentally similar cars. Just as Teslas most advanced vehicles can use its oldest battery cell.

4680 does not magically equal better Model Y.

Inferior to a S Plaid with 4680, yes.

 

[Quagmire2]

Inferior to a S Plaid with 4680, yes.

Yet no plan to transition any other current model to the 4680. So for all we know Model S will stick with the 18650 cell for a bit especially since the Plaid+ was killed.

 

[Stook02ss]

Yet no plan to transition any other current model to the 4680. So for all we know Model S will stick with the 18650 cell for a bit especially since the Plaid+ was killed.

Correct, but the fact remains that if it did switch, the old version would be inferior. It would be slower, handle worse, the battery wouldn't last as long and the range may be less (depending on battery size). In short, inferior.

 

[Quagmire2]

Correct, but the fact remains that if it did switch, the old version would be inferior. It would be slower, handle worse, the battery wouldn't last as long and the range may be less (depending on battery size). In short, inferior.

RIght now there is no basis of what any current Tesla changed over the 4680 would look like. This is all speculation. So the inferior talk is hugely premature. We don't even know how Tesla will handle a Model Y with the 4680. So we can't even use that as a basis of speculation for the 3, S, and X.

 

[Stook02ss]

RIght now there is no basis of what any current Tesla changed over the 4680 would look like. This is all speculation. So the inferior talk is hugely premature. We don't even know how Tesla will handle a Model Y with the 4680. So we can't even use that as a basis of speculation for the 3, S, and X.

The 4680 is apparently better in every way. Any car with a 4680 pack, structural or not, will be better - it will be lighter and the battery will last longer and charge faster. So yes, 2170 and 18650 will be, based on everything we know now, inferior. Still great cars, but inferior. Especially if it's a Performance version - the handling, braking and acceleration should all be drastically improved by the lower weight.

 

[CRIMSON_DATE]

This is the part I don’t get. Why are they inferior? Does this make the Model S Plaid the most inferior because it had the oldest model batteries that the 2170 improved upon?

Taking complex multidimensional technologies and trying to boil it down to newer = better is such flawed logic. Every tech has pros and cons and Tesla is balancing these options to meet their needs.

4680 vs 2170 cell is a manufacturing decision and both options can create fundamentally similar cars. Just as Teslas most advanced vehicles can use its oldest battery cell.

4680 does not magically equal better Model Y.

The Battery does NOT make the car. The 2170's are more expensive batteries to manufacturer and are much easier to swap out then the Structural 4680 , the 4680's are cheaper batteries for Tesla to manufactuer .

The 2170 pack has 4,416 individual cells . We don't know how many 4680's are in a pack yet but it is 5.5 times larger then a 2170 so lets estimat that there are only 803 cells needed . If a single 2170 fails you loose about 0.23% capacity. If a single 4680 fails you loose 0.125% capacity .

The 4680 should have some charging advantages but in the end I don't think it matters one way or the other. You should be happy to get either one

 

[TEXAS-Y-P]

I believe the first inferior part of anything coming out of California would be the paint, as far as fitment I think they have it dialed in pretty good. Other than that, they should be professionals putting together a car. Texas should be able to hit the ground running, I bet there are many employees that would not mind moving to texas. I have to say hats off to the fremont crew, that plant looks like a jigsaw puzzle from hell and I bet there is room from improvement, it looks too crowded and more or less an organized cluster fawk. But they are making it work and my respects to them.

 

[rlzalusky]

Remember Tesla sold over 22 times more 3/Y cars than S/X cars so there is much more profit aggregate to be made in aggregateby upgrading the Y with 4680 than the S. Those people buying the S are not changing their mind because of the battery as they really don't have an equivalent yet.

 

[H4V0C]

I know this is all speculation here, but if this were to happen literally NOBODY would want the inferior Y's coming out of Fremont. I've got to think Tesla is smarter than that.

"Literally NOBODY would want the inferior Y's"? I think it's more like, literally NOBODY would know the difference. This forum of Tesla enthusiasts isn't an accurate sample set of the majority of people who are buying the MY.

 

[Sto88]

"Literally NOBODY would want the inferior Y's"? I think it's more like, literally NOBODY would know the difference. This forum of Tesla enthusiasts isn't an accurate sample set of the majority of people who are buying the MY.

Even on this forum of people "in the know" there's a small percentage that would likely turn down an "inferior" car. I just want my damn car!

 

[SilentWarp]

At close to $70,000, damn right we want the best most up to date hardware we can get, enthusiast or not.

 

[ProjectTrinity]

The weight savings alone would be better with the 4680. You’d have to be ignorant to think a couple hundred pounds doesn’t matter in a car. It matters in handling, wear and tear of suspension components (ie bushings), as well as tirewear. I’m not gonna say range since they may reduce the cells to keep the range similar, but might be easier to “hypermile”.

The paint can’t be helped if coming from Fremont unfortunately. Unless they use the same kind of water based paint in Texas just to keep one supply of paint.

 

[OakvilleMYP]

*speculation alert*
What are the chances all the model Y’s come out of texas, and they expand model 3 capacity in cali.
This would avoid having 2 versions of the same car being produced for any meaningful amount of time. Keep in mind texas ramps up Y, and then it focuses on cybermirage.

 

[Stook02ss]

*speculation alert*
What are the chances all the model Y’s come out of texas, and they expand model 3 capacity in cali.
This would avoid having 2 versions of the same car being produced for any meaningful amount of time. Keep in mind texas ramps up Y, and then it focuses on cybermirage.

This is what I was thinking as well. Perhaps even Freemont builds some of the cheaper model ys if they introduce a shorter range version with a LFP battery.

Pure speculation of course.

 

[NYMY]

This is what I was thinking as well. Perhaps even Freemont builds some of the cheaper model ys if they introduce a shorter range version with a LFP battery.

Pure speculation of course.

I think it sounds reasonable *except* they explicitly said Fremont would send MYs to the West and Austin would send MYs East. And you wouldn’t want to make blatantly misleading statements on an earnings call…