Model Year 2022 Refresh M3/MY

[milesr3]

Did you checked that via ODB?

No, I got 80.3kW usable energy from the average Wh/mi multiplied by the remaining range and scaled to 100% battery.

It's not that simple. The M3P ist overshooting these values since late 2019. Have a look here:

[Wiki] Model 3 / Model Y - Technische Veränderungen

Motoren / Drive Unit / Technical Data Model 3 Performance 2022 - E5LD - LG Chem 5L 79kWH Frontmotor (3D3) Maximum Peak Power: 158kW Heckmotor (3D6) Maximum Peak Power: 235kW Drive Unit Cat 3 Combined Max Power: 393kW Frontmotor (3D3) Maximum Peak Torque: 240Nm Heckmotor...

tff-forum.de

Indeed. It's well established that the M3P overshoots the official power rating of 377kW, from around 50% charge upwards according to the 3L max discharge power graph you shared.

Interesting to see the 690Nm maximum torque value (up from 660Nm in the Owner's Manual). That the power controller can supply 840A to the rear motor and 630A to the front. Your conclusion is that "the battery is the limiting factor"?

 

[eivissa]

Indeed. It's well established that the M3P overshoots the official power rating of 377kW, from around 50% charge upwards according to the 3L max discharge power graph you shared.

Yes. Tesla could have set the power limit to 377kW, but it is in the region of 425-430kW. The car cells need to be very hot and high SoC to get there though. So that power is not available for long.

Interesting to see the 690Nm maximum torque value (up from 660Nm in the Owner's Manual). That the power controller can supply 840A to the rear motor and 630A to the front. Your conclusion is that "the battery is the limiting factor"?

I have never seen any more than 565A going to the front motor if 335V is its operating voltage and this high current is only freed up, once the rear motor starts to drop power. This is well visible if you look at the power curves of the old and new rear motors in comparison to the front motor.

These new 3D6/3D7 Hairpin motors are not available in the US yet AFAIK...

 

[stevenm3]

Final confirmation, if still required, that 2022 Q1 M3P is Variant: E3LD and Version: PQP2S5N against type approval #V21 with the Panasonic 3L battery and cat.2 drive unit.

View attachment 782044

Greetings! 2021.12 built Model 3 Performance owner from China here.
I wanted to find out which variant of the 3D6 motor we got. However, none of these variant/version info is found in any of the document that came with the car. Only on paper it says motor power 137kw/220kw. From this I assume we get the cat.2 variant right?
Also for the battery, on paper it's 355.2V/220.8Ah, which translates to 78.4kWh. I'm pretty sure we only have LG in China so does that mean it's a LG M50?

 

[eivissa]

Greetings!

I wanted to find out which variant of the 3D6 motor we got.

Either you have the 3D6 or you dont. The alternative is the 3D1. The easiest way to find out, is to look behind the left/aft Wheel. There is an orange placard on the rear motor that you can see if you look inside the wheel arches. It will say 3D1 or 3D6 on it.

Also for the battery, on paper it's 355.2V/220.8Ah, which translates to 78.4kWh.

In China the capacity is stated without the Energy buffer below 0%, so you have to divide your capacity by 0,955 to add 4,5%. Your car therefore comes with the Panasonic 3L 82kWh battery pack. To confirm it, you can look behind your right/front wheel and take a picture of the battery sticker. It should say: 1160112-00-#

 

[milesr3]

The easiest way to find out, is to look behind the left/aft Wheel. There is an orange placard on the rear motor that you can see if you look inside the wheel arches. It will say 3D1 or 3D6 on it.

 

[DatWhiteM3P]

I have postponed my delivery for a model 3P MIC to May (Norway) to hopefully get heated wiper area, superhorn, double rear windows, hairpin wound rear motor and the new battery. The new battery is only for Performance models so I hope it will have more power capacity in lower temps. my current Panasonic 82kWh battery feels slow when SOC is under 30% and the cells have been sucked cold from the heat pump. when hot the Panasonic 82kWh battery shows 440+kW discharge power on scan my Tesla.

Have anyone here found info if the new cars with the 15V battery have a different Trailer ECU? I have plans on mounting a hitch on my 22 M3P for bike rack and have not found any info it there is a "new" trailer ECU for the new 15V system.

 

[eivissa]

I have postponed my delivery for a model 3P MIC to May (Norway) to hopefully get heated wiper area, superhorn, double rear windows, hairpin wound rear motor and the new battery.

The Q1/2022 cars have most of these features already. Only missing is the double rear windows, that were never confirmed for the Model 3 and the LG battery pack.

The new battery is only for Performance models

Not really. This battery pack is already used in every non-SR Model 3 and Y, except for the M3P.

when hot the Panasonic 82kWh battery shows 440+kW discharge power on scan my Tesla.

Yes, true, but the BMS doesnt allow more power than 425-430kW to be drawn from the battery. The highest number I've seen with the coming LG battery pack is 411kW maximum discharge power. A fair bit less than the Panasonic 82kWh (3L).

 

[milesr3]

my current Panasonic 82kWh battery feels slow when SOC is under 30% and the cells have been sucked cold from the heat pump.

I think if I lived in Norway I could have been tempted to wait for the 5L. I worked there over winter and remember two weeks when the temperature never rose above -25c!

It's around 2c overnight here in the UK now and I'm seeing lots of regen dots and getting some juddering in the morning until I've driven 30+ miles. With my butt dyno I can feel there's more power right after charging. Shame there isn't an actual temperature read-out of the battery pack somewhere in the UI.

 

[reystar]

Is the LG battery using a different "technology" than the Panasonic?
I mean does it even make any difference having the Panasonic or the LG? Like the LG ages better or something?

 

[Desiberius]

Is the LG battery using a different "technology" than the Panasonic?
I mean does it even make any difference having the Panasonic or the LG? Like the LG ages better or something?

I'm also interested in this since I just ordered a M3P

 

[eivissa]

Is the LG battery using a different "technology" than the Panasonic?

The LG is always NMC Chemistry, the Panasonic is always NCA. Both are 2170's.

I mean does it even make any difference having the Panasonic or the LG? Like the LG ages better or something?

The LG is more like a "Diesel" if you like. More low end torque (low SoC actually). The Panasonic has more power at peak rpm (SoC actually) and if hot.

I'm also interested in this since I just ordered a M3P

The US only has Panasonic in the Long Range / Performance!

 

[eivissa]

Model Y Performance - LG 5L NMC 79kWh - Nr.15 Made in Germany!

 

[reystar]

The LG is always NMC Chemistry, the Panasonic is always NCA. Both are 2170's.

The LG is more like a "Diesel" if you like. More low end torque (low SoC actually). The Panasonic has more power at peak rpm (SoC actually) and if hot.

The US only has Panasonic in the Long Range / Performance!

Thank you, very helpful

Regarding battery degradation NMC chemistry is better? it lasts more kms?
Both should have the same range? LG and Panasonic?

In case you want to replace your battery you can just buy an LG if you wish? Will it work if you vehicle comes with Panasonic?

Just a quick look on google i found the following:

NCA vs NMC Battery

NCA batteries share many similarities with NMC batteries as they both share the layered cathode structure. However, NCA batteries replace the manganese of the NMC batteries with aluminum. This improves the specific energy and lifespan when compared to its NMC counterpart

So does that mean that Panasonic > LG when it comes to lifespan / battery degradation?

Should i be hoping my car to come with an LG or Panasonic battery ? Haha

 

[reystar]

Now i found another one saying:

An NCA battery typically has a shorter cycle life and a higher energy density (and less stability). An NMC battery generally has a longer cycle life, more stability, and less energy density.

I am mean ... like wtf haha

Which info is correct?

 

[terranx]

Yes. Tesla could have set the power limit to 377kW, but it is in the region of 425-430kW. The car cells need to be very hot and high SoC to get there though. So that power is not available for long.

I have never seen any more than 565A going to the front motor if 335V is its operating voltage and this high current is only freed up, once the rear motor starts to drop power. This is well visible if you look at the power curves of the old and new rear motors in comparison to the front motor.

These new 3D6/3D7 Hairpin motors are not available in the US yet AFAIK...

View attachment 782475

Is it just me or do those power/torque curves not really match up? At least for the 3D1/3D6 comparison. On the power curve, 3D1 and 3D6 cross over at ~72 km/h, while on the torque curve, the 3D6 constantly makes more torque. Doesn't really make sense unless the gearing is different.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Yeah, those plots are just meaningless garbage. The 3D3 and 3D5 torque curves are junk too.

It looks like they were built from just 3 data points and then curve-fit in Excel, which wouldn't be so bad but the data points are kinda random and some of them got mixed up with each other while others were obviously fudged.

 

[eivissa]

Is it just me or do those power/torque curves not really match up? At least for the 3D1/3D6 comparison. On the power curve, 3D1 and 3D6 cross over at ~72 km/h, while on the torque curve, the 3D6 constantly makes more torque. Doesn't really make sense unless the gearing is different.

You are right in that this is just an excel diagram with three relevant datapoints for each motor. All data is straight from the Tesla documentation for these motors though. The maximum power figues, stated by Tesla, are usually higher in Scan My Tesla.

Here is an example of how they report the numbers:

 

[milesr3]

Another very interesting graph in the Batterywiki over on the German forum. Thanks again @eivissa.

I was surprised to see that it is only below 26% charge and cold that the 5L has greater power than the 3L (and below 12% when hot). But above 26% charge the 3L looks like it has up to 50kW more power when hot and no less power when cold compared with the 5L.

The difference in power between hot and cold is less pronounced with the 5L, so the performance will be more consistent. But ultimately the 5L needs to be hot and >50% charged to match the performance of the boosted LR. With a cold battery the 5L needs >82% charge to outperform the boosted LR.

This may well explain why the M3P continues to be shipped with the (presumably more costly) 3L.

 

[reystar]

Another very interesting graph in the Batterywiki over on the German forum. Thanks again @eivissa.

I was surprised to see that it is only below 26% charge and cold that the 5L has greater power than the 3L (and below 12% when hot). But above 26% charge the 3L looks like it has up to 50kW more power when hot and no less power when cold compared with the 5L.

The difference in power between hot and cold is less pronounced with the 5L, so the performance will be more consistent. But ultimately the 5L needs to be hot and >50% charged to match the performance of the boosted LR. With a cold battery the 5L needs >82% charge to outperform the boosted LR.

This may well explain why the M3P continues to be shipped with the (presumably more costly) 3L.

So performance 5L and boosted LR have almost the same power but LR has also 50 extra km max range? Am I understanding this right ?

 

[delta0]

So performance 5L and boosted LR have almost the same power but LR has also 50 extra km max range? Am I understanding this right ?

Seems to be following the MYP and blue line which is considerably higher than the other lines. Although I’m curious why the M3P line suddenly goes flat unlike the MYP line.