Most efficient tire?

[XPsionic]

Of course you can't just say "Chinese tires all suck", but looking at the data, for wet braking, there are no Chinese branded tires that do well. Chinese MADE tires? That's a different story.

Let data speak for themselves, there are tires that are efficient AND have good wet braking, they aren't the cheapest though. There are no cheap tires that can do both of those things, and probably never will be.

If you don't care and you want cheap tires, go ahead.

 

[gearchruncher]

Of course you can't just say "Chinese tires all suck", but looking at the data, for wet braking, there are no Chinese branded tires that do well. Chinese MADE tires? That's a different story.
Let data speak for themselves, there are tires that are efficient AND have good wet braking, they aren't the cheapest though. There are no cheap tires that can do both of those things, and probably never will be.

Care to post that data?

Once you do, post the wet braking distances for what you define as a good, "efficient" tire, and I'll find a tire that absolutely crushes that wet braking distance, and then we can discuss why it's OK to run the efficient tire when there is a much better tire out there for emergency stops. It's OK to give up max wet braking for some fuzzy "efficiency" number that saves you money, but not for other reasons that save you money?

The reality is that anyone looking for a tire with "efficiency" as the primary target has already agreed that maximal safety is not their goal (which is fine, just pointing out the hypocrisy of using this as a metric of an acceptable tire)

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

Care to post that data?

Once you do, post the wet braking distances for what you define as a good, "efficient" tire, and I'll find a tire that absolutely crushes that wet braking distance, and then we can discuss why it's OK to run the efficient tire when there is a much better tire out there for emergency stops. It's OK to give up max wet braking for some fuzzy "efficiency" number that saves you money, but not for other reasons that save you money?

The reality is that anyone looking for a tire with "efficiency" as the primary target has already agreed that maximal safety is not their goal (which is fine, just pointing out the hypocrisy of using this as a metric of an acceptable tire)

Exactly, choosing ONE metric that YOU desire and then using that at as a basis to say other tires are trash is disingenuous.

I live in central North Carolina, so winter weather performance is not a factor for me. Someone living in FL or CA will probably be fine with summer tires all year-round. Hell, I ran summer tires on my Audi A4 all year.

Depending on what you want out of a tire, and what conditions/climate you live in, the type of tire you buy could be very different. I.e, wet weather performance isn’t a primary factor for someone living in Nevada, the driest state in the U.S. However, it could be a big consideration for someone living in Louisiana or Mississippi.

With that said, this thread is about the most efficient tires — which is what I personally want for my 3. I’ll be in the market soon, and I’m likely going for the Hankook Ion EVO AS as that’s a brand I’ve used in the past and like.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

And another thing I JUST realized, that could sway my choice. I paid around $700 in electricity (including supercharging) to drive a little over 20,000 miles last year.

I could get a set of way cheaper conventional tires with better all-around performance than the “efficiency” tires. And even if I took an efficiency hit of 10% to 20% due to them not being EV-specific, it still would be far cheaper then the $400 to $500 price increase for the purchase price compared to the name brand efficiency tires.

But again, it all comes down to your priorities

 

[meomyo]

Need new tires. Is the Primacy MXM4 still the most efficient all season tire? The two most important criteria for me are efficiency and noise? Also are all the Primacy's the same or do I have to ask for a Tesla spec to get the foam liner?

cross climate 2 is a good tire

 

[meomyo]

I'm looking at the www.disccounttire.com website. For wet braking on MXM4 it says 148 ft new, 184 feet worn. Dry braking 128 ft. UTQG Traction A

Pilot Sport AS4 (not an EV tire, but very popular) wet: 130ft new, 148 ft worn. Dry braking 113. That's a performance tire (still all season), so its better. UTQG Traction AA.

Pirelli PZero Elect: wet: 149ft new 192 ft worn (Even worse than MXM4). Dry braking 126 ft. UTQG Traction AA.

Michelin Cross Climate 2: specs not listed.

Good Year Assurance Maxlife (a lifetime optimized tire): New 158ft wet, 194ft worn. dry: 129 ft. So even worse than MXM4. That's what you get for a long life tire.

Michelin Defender (another life and efficiency tire): New 156ft wet, 201 ft worn. Dry 129 ft. UTQG B.

Hankook Ion EVO AS: specs not listed, but it's rated AA for traction UTQG, which is that for a very high performance tire.

If wet braking is important to you, I would consider a non-EV performance tire like the PSA4, or try the Hankook iON which is likely to still be pretty good.

i would consider those 3..i have crossclimate 2 now for 2 yrs...and they last and work well

 

[DrChaos]

i would consider those 3..i have crossclimate 2 now for 2 yrs...and they last and work well

I'm sure it's good at what it's made for (weather) but it has distinctly lower efficiency than the EV tires.

 

[DrChaos]

And another thing I JUST realized, that could sway my choice. I paid around $700 in electricity (including supercharging) to drive a little over 20,000 miles last year.

I could get a set of way cheaper conventional tires with better all-around performance than the “efficiency” tires. And even if I took an efficiency hit of 10% to 20% due to them not being EV-specific, it still would be far cheaper then the $400 to $500 price increase for the purchase price compared to the name brand efficiency tires.

But again, it all comes down to your priorities

certainly, though I'm not sure it would be *far* cheaper.

Let's see, 700*0.15, that's $105 per year hit from 15% efficiency loss. If tires last 4 years (80K miles!) that's $420, so it's definitely a wash for you assuming very generous tire lifetime. But you'd need to go from $250 tires to $150 (to save $100 x4). I suspect $150 tires aren't usually all that great in general. Good quality performance non-EV tires seem $200-$230 (e.g. continental, michelin, pirelli, yokohama). If the choice there between $220 conventional and $250 Hankook EV tires, I would probably choose the Hankooks.

I live in San Diego with very high electricity prices (on-peak 4-9 pm is 0.83 cents in summer, 7 days a week, obv never charge then but it shows how bad SDG&E is) and no snow, rain is very infrequent. Comfort and efficiency, with decent enough handling and long life, are my priorities. High efficiency lowers cyclic aging of battery a bit as well.

What I want is a rare thing in USA, but common in EU where drivers regularly switch summer to winter tires: Summer Grand Touring tires.

Hankook iON looks like $250, probably could get non-EV tires for $200-$230. MXM4 are $300+, way out of range. With a 10/32 tread vs the 8/32 on the factory MXM4, Hankooks should last long enough.

and some people might enjoy the more performance tires for more fun too....

 

[meomyo]

is hankook made in usa?

 

[stevezh1998]

When there are Chinese tires as good as Michelins, I will recommend them. CATL is world A-level on batteries.

when the time comes, I bet you still want them to be cheap af ? can you accept competitive pricing like michelins though lol

 

[DrChaos]

when the time comes, I bet you still want them to be cheap af ? can you accept competitive pricing like michelins though lol

when Chinese tires are as good as Michelin they will cost almost as much as Michelin---they're no fools.

 

[XPsionic]

post the wet braking distances for what you define as a good, "efficient" tire, and I'll find a tire that absolutely crushes that wet braking distance, and then we can discuss why it's OK to run the efficient tire when there is a much better tire out there for emergency stops. It's OK to give up max wet braking for some fuzzy "efficiency" number that saves you money, but not for other reasons that save you money?

You're the only one hypocritically asking for data, then saying data doesn't matter, then having an imaginary argument in your own head about how a person couldn't use any criteria to judge for themselves what they should value because everything has a trade off.

Might be shocking for you to hear that just because someone might be interested in an efficient tire, maybe the tradeoffs they look for isn't simply one category, and it's okay for them to choose based on the balance of factors that mean the most TO THEM.

 

[XPsionic]

certainly, though I'm not sure it would be *far* cheaper.

Let's see, 700*0.15, that's $105 per year hit from 15% efficiency loss. If tires last 4 years (80K miles!) that's $420, so it's definitely a wash for you assuming very generous tire lifetime. But you'd need to go from $250 tires to $150 (to save $100 x4). I suspect $150 tires aren't usually all that great in general. Good quality performance non-EV tires seem $200-$230 (e.g. continental, michelin, pirelli, yokohama). If the choice there between $220 conventional and $250 Hankook EV tires, I would probably choose the Hankooks.

I live in San Diego with very high electricity prices (on-peak 4-9 pm is 0.83 cents in summer, 7 days a week, obv never charge then but it shows how bad SDG&E is) and no snow, rain is very infrequent. Comfort and efficiency, with decent enough handling and long life, are my priorities. High efficiency lowers cyclic aging of battery a bit as well.

What I want is a rare thing in USA, but common in EU where drivers regularly switch summer to winter tires: Summer Grand Touring tires.

Hankook iON looks like $250, probably could get non-EV tires for $200-$230. MXM4 are $300+, way out of range. With a 10/32 tread vs the 8/32 on the factory MXM4, Hankooks should last long enough.

and some people might enjoy the more performance tires for more fun too....

Great calculations, one reason why someone might want to pay more for an efficient tire is more range per charge. Even if the economics works out to be the same over the lifetime of the tires, having more highway range could be useful.

 

[3sr+buyer]

is hankook made in usa?

Tire Rack's web site indicates that most sizes of most Hankook tires are made in the Republic of Korea, while the US is the second most common place where they are made. But Tire Rack does not yet list the Hankook ION EVO AS, so it is not shown there where those tires are made.

 

[rayrevolver]

Great thread so far. I did not realize the EV tires were that bad with respect initial/worn capability... is it possible my F-150 braking distance is similar to my Model 3? The data points to yes... Ouch, but now I know.

Everything is a compromise. I need a tire for 365 days, to include a few snow days here in Maryland and our rainy season. Thats why I bought the AWD. I don't want to give up too much range. My 2020 M3LR BMS says 288 miles at 100% (which is probably very conservative) but that works great for our 150-190 mile trips EVERY WEEKEND! Another reason I bought this car was we had these trips for the foreseeable future and our ICE cars are 18mpg (sold) and 25mpg (kept).

When I searched for wet performance, the Bridgestone Turanza Quiettrack came up with good wet ratings and high wear ratings.

Installed prices for me:
Goodyear Electricdrive GT - ~$1000
Hankook Ion Evo, Pirelli Elect, Quiettrack - These are all ~$1200-1250 installed
Sailun Erange - ~$850

If I popped a tire today, my top 2 choices are Goodyears or the Ion Evo. There just isn't a lot of data available to make an educated decision and weigh the pros/cons.

What I want is a rare thing in USA, but common in EU where drivers regularly switch summer to winter tires: Summer Grand Touring tires.

Hankook iON looks like $250, probably could get non-EV tires for $200-$230. MXM4 are $300+, way out of range. With a 10/32 tread vs the 8/32 on the factory MXM4, Hankooks should last long enough.

and some people might enjoy the more performance tires for more fun too....

What are the specifications for a Summer GT tire? In my mind, I had General AS05s that could maybe fit that bill. Worked well through our mild-ish winter but were on a car I would never drive in the snow.

 

[Gasaraki]

Stop buying cheap Chinese tires. Here's your "data".

 

[gearchruncher]

Stop buying cheap Chinese tires. Here's your "data".

As he says in that video- the Continental Premium Contact is the best of the very best.
And then he says that if you watch the premium test, you know the PremiumContact isn't the best at noise or efficiency.

But you're all running those Continentals, right, because wet braking is the end all be all?

Does anyone have actual braking data on the Sailun Erange vs the MXM4?

 

[Miata Head]

If I had to buy tires today, I'd probably do either PS4AS or Conti Extreme Contacts. The PS4AS are the best AS tires I've used and are damn near close to summer tires for daily driving in congested LA. On my second set on my 14 Accord Sport manual. Since the MXM4s are more expensive and most likely less durable, they drop off the list. MXM4s are OEM spec on alot of cars and I had them on a previous ICE car and they only lasted 20+k.

 

[DrChaos]

Great thread so far. I did not realize the EV tires were that bad with respect initial/worn capability... is it possible my F-150 braking distance is similar to my Model 3? The data points to yes... Ouch, but now I know.

Everything is a compromise. I need a tire for 365 days, to include a few snow days here in Maryland and our rainy season. Thats why I bought the AWD. I don't want to give up too much range. My 2020 M3LR BMS says 288 miles at 100% (which is probably very conservative) but that works great for our 150-190 mile trips EVERY WEEKEND! Another reason I bought this car was we had these trips for the foreseeable future and our ICE cars are 18mpg (sold) and 25mpg (kept).

When I searched for wet performance, the Bridgestone Turanza Quiettrack came up with good wet ratings and high wear ratings.

Installed prices for me:
Goodyear Electricdrive GT - ~$1000
Hankook Ion Evo, Pirelli Elect, Quiettrack - These are all ~$1200-1250 installed
Sailun Erange - ~$850

If I popped a tire today, my top 2 choices are Goodyears or the Ion Evo. There just isn't a lot of data available to make an educated decision and weigh the pros/cons.

I'm surprised the goodyears are less $ than the others, at least near me they're a little more---and reports i've read here show a range drop compared to the MXM4s. Very little information though. I would choose the Hankook or Pirelli. The Pirelli Elect is used as OEM tire on some EVs (Porsche, BMW, maybe some Tesla P models?). The OEMs have an interest in high efficiency so they can advertise good EPA/WLTP range. Nobody uses Goodyear Electricdrive stock yet, and that says something to me. The Hankook iON is new, but they got a top efficiency rating on the EU objective test, at least summer version.

Discount Tire near me has the Hankook iON AS for about $250, but they will price match other online stores, and I've seen it for ~$230. I'll probably do that one.

 

[rayrevolver]

Sorry, should have noted I can get a Buy 3 get 1 free for the Goodyears through being a USAA member.

On Model Y folks say they are losing 10% with them. There is a member here with a M3 and he's getting good numbers. I'll ping him again...