MotorTrend Reviews the P85D--Quickest 4-Door Sedan Ever Tested

[Cosmacelf]

There is a pretty good picture. It appears that the microwave is gone.

And it appears the rear wall of the frunk has been moved forward some... that "ledge" where the Model S placerd is resting is new, isn't it?

Yes, it does appear that way. It looks like it isn't just the microwave area disappearing, but some reduction in depth of the main frunk as well.

 

[scaesare]

Yes, it does appear that way. It looks like it isn't just the microwave area disappearing, but some reduction in depth of the main frunk as well.

Yup... too bad, but not a huge deal...

(it appears your quoting mixed a couple of us up... it also appears that I made an annoying typo...)

 

[slcasner]

It's also very interesting to find out that Elon Musk drove a McLaren F1 to the Roadster launch in 2007.

Yes, except that the Roadster unveiling was held in Barker Hanger at Santa Monica Airport (not Burbank Airport) on July 19. 2006 (not 2007). I was there, and saw the F1 right next to the event entry door.

 

[gdavison]

Interesting read, thanks to OP for posting .. I have a D on order over here in the UK, so at best may see it July 2015, which will be a replacement for my RS6 (the V10 5L twin turbo one that you never got in the USA - for those wondering why I'd not replace it with the faster, quicker, lighter, all in all better new RS6 C7 version - Audi UK messed around with facelift C7 RS6's orders and I had a order frozen sat waiting to go onto their order books for 3 months before bailing and ordering my D )

I did think this comment ...

I have a P85D on order, and have in the past owned a Panamera 4S and currently have a 997 Turbo as my 'daily driver'.

There is one metric in the standardized Motor Trend test where the Panamera Turbo S still stomps all over the Tesla P85D -- Figure 8, 25.0 seconds in the P85D, but only 23.7 seconds in the Panamera Turbo S. The 991 Turbo S will do 23.0 -- in other words, the Panamera is closer to the handling of a 911 than to that of a tesla.

It's also pretty clear that if you plan on a long range triple-digit drive (say, a 400 mile drive on the autobahn at 130mph), range and overheating quickly becomes an issue, whereas a Panamera will have no problem maintaining the speed, has a farther range, and refueling is quicker.

Similar concerns at a racetrack.

Like I said at the beginning, I have a P85D on order, but there's still at least a few metrics where Tesla does not yet dominate.

.... is a good "expectation leveller" wrt to article . Similar to randompersonx I also own a Porsche (Boxster GTS) and would/will happily expect it to "out drive" a D on a UK country road whilst being much "slower" on the 0-60 time. Not everything is a traffic light drag race :biggrin:. Please dont get me wrong I am looking forward immensely to owning my Tesla (although trying to not get too excited at moment as its sooooo long away) and joining this active community, its just a "horses for course's" sanity check

 

[LetsGoFast]

Go the other direction--a Cayman/Boxster offers a sublime and engaging driving experience even at relatively low speeds. Mine provides the perfect counterpoint to the Tesla.

Though for occasional use, a Carrera 3.2 or 993 might be even better.

I have nothing bad to say about the Cayman or Boxster, but I can't imagine owning one. I think a 993 would be a fun car to have and I toy with the idea of picking up a 928 from time to time. I need a bigger garage!

 

[Realist]

To 60, absolutely. But I'd think that with the same power output on a heavier car we'd be seeing similar or worse quarter mile time. Audi added a hundred and thirty horsepower to get from 12.4 to 11.6 seconds, with a smaller weight change.

(Motortrend's recent i8 comparison gave 3.9 0-60 and 12.5 quarter mile for a P85+ - so the P85D is .8 faster to 60 - and .9 faster in the quarter mile.)

I went back and looked - Motortrend doesn't show the instrument panel while the car is on, and all the introduction videos show the new panel design which doesn't have a power meter that I saw.

There are some valid points about stretching the power band, but I'm having trouble believing it's enough.
Walter

What we know from the Motortrend stats is 8,5s für the P85D from 60-115mph.

Anyone know a comparable P85+ figure?

 

[Saghost]

What we know from the Motortrend stats is 8,5s für the P85D from 60-115mph.Anyone know a comparable P85+ figure?

It's such an odd metric it may be hard to find an exact match.

Doing the same thing with the i8 comparison data gives the P85+ a 60-108 time of 8.6 seconds, though.

Walter

 

[fiksegts]

I'll be doing a heads up race between my P85D and my P85....

 

[Realist]

It's such an odd metric it may be hard to find an exact match.

Doing the same thing with the i8 comparison data gives the P85+ a 60-108 time of 8.6 seconds, though.

Walter

That says it all, the P85D has to be a lot faster than.

 

[Saghost]

That says it all, the P85D has to be a lot faster than.

Well, I figured that given the data and knowing the P85D is almost two hundred pounds heavier it meant that the D was pulling more power out of the battery, but it seems quite a few people don't agree with me. I guess we'll see once we get the cars in the wild.Walter

 

[Realist]

Anyway you don't get 0-60 in 3.1 instead of 3.9 on better traction alone yet with a much longer gear ratio.

That is simply not possible.

 

[wallet.dat]

What we know from the Motortrend stats is 8,5s für the P85D from 60-115mph.

Anyone know a comparable P85+ figure?

Just eyeballing it from this P85+ run, it looks like roughly 10.5 seconds:

And I agree that it's a really weird metric when the current fad is 60-130mph. That's what all big hp cars are going by now, and some of the big dawgs (GTRs and Gallardos that are probably no longer eligible for factory warranty work) are doing it in as little as 2.2 seconds :O

 

[Vger]

I'm having a tough time imagining the performance specs on the redone Tesla Roadster in a few years.

Exactly. If they build another carbon fibre body, and generally get all the weight out they can... OH MY!

 

[wallet.dat]

Well, I figured that given the data and knowing the P85D is almost two hundred pounds heavier it meant that the D was pulling more power out of the battery, but it seems quite a few people don't agree with me. I guess we'll see once we get the cars in the wild.Walter

Not necessarily. The P85 could simply be attenuating power to the ground when it detects wheel slip.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly. If they build another carbon fibre body, and generally get all the weight out they can... OH MY!

Imagine if Tesla went with a quad motor setup (if anybody can get such a system to work, Tesla can). Smaller motors mean lower CoG. That, combined with a skateboard layout, could result in a street car with a CoG height approaching that of an F1 car. OH MY!

 

[Saghost]

Exactly. If they build another carbon fibre body, and generally get all the weight out they can... OH MY!

It'll be interesting to see how they choose to play it. It seems like there are two directions they can go.

The least investment would be to take the traditional muscle car route from the old days. Put a model S/X skateboard underneath, take the seven hundred horsepower power package from the dual motor P series, and then wrap the best sleek two seat lightweight sports car shell they can put together around it.

The other option would be more in line with the current Roadster: create a custom smaller lighter platform with a smaller pack and use a lower power lightweight drive motor - possibly AWD, possibly not. This would give a smaller, lighter car that mostly handles better but probably isn't as fast.

We don't know enough about the Model 3 yet, but there might be an intermediate option to do the first approach using the Model 3 skateboard instead.

I'm not sure which approach would be better - each has some advantages.
Walter

 

[JRod0802]

Well, I figured that given the data and knowing the P85D is almost two hundred pounds heavier it meant that the D was pulling more power out of the battery, but it seems quite a few people don't agree with me. I guess we'll see once we get the cars in the wild.Walter

I think what is happening is that the P85D is pulling more average power over the course of going from 0 to 60 compared to the P85, but the maximum power draw between the two is the same. Said another way, the P85D spends more time at maximum power draw than the P85 does, even though it's the same maximum.

The reason the P85 doesn't spend more time at max power draw is because of loss of traction (especially at the lower end of the speed spectrum). The car obviously drops power draw when loss of traction occurs in order to keep the wheels from spinning out.

 

[Saghost]

I think what is happening is that the P85D is pulling more average power over the course of going from 0 to 60 compared to the P85, but the maximum power draw between the two is the same. Said another way, the P85D spends more time at maximum power draw than the P85 does, even though it's the same maximum.

The reason the P85 doesn't spend more time at max power draw is because of loss of traction (especially at the lower end of the speed spectrum). The car obviously drops power draw when loss of traction occurs in order to keep the wheels from spinning out.

I'll buy that - most likely that's happening whatever else is happening with the power.

But in that case, why is the D so much faster above 60 mph?

I'm having trouble believing that the difference at higher speeds (despite being heavier) is due solely to being able to stay at maximum longer from the gear ratio spread between the two motors.
Walter

 

[ckessel]

I think what is happening is that the P85D is pulling more average power over the course of going from 0 to 60 compared to the P85, but the maximum power draw between the two is the same. Said another way, the P85D spends more time at maximum power draw than the P85 does, even though it's the same maximum.

The reason the P85 doesn't spend more time at max power draw is because of loss of traction (especially at the lower end of the speed spectrum). The car obviously drops power draw when loss of traction occurs in order to keep the wheels from spinning out.

Yep, the P85 doesn't the 320kw max on the tach until 30+ mph (I'm going on memory), after that the power draw is maxed. That means the P85D is getting all it's extra oomph in the 0-30ish band.

 

[Saghost]

Yep, the P85 doesn't the 320kw max on the tach until 30+ mph (I'm going on memory), after that the power draw is maxed. That means the P85D is getting all it's extra oomph in the 0-30ish band.

But that's not what the data says. The D goes from 60-116 faster than the P goes 60-108, while being ~5% heavier.
Walter

 

[JST]

But that's not what the data says. The D goes from 60-116 faster than the P goes 60-108, while being ~5% heavier.
Walter

That's (potentially) consistent with the idea that the front motor is geared longer than the rear motor. If so, even if the two motors are putting out the same overall total power as the single motor in the P+, the effective total gear ratio for that power would be taller, which would show benefits the faster you went.

The initial jump off the line might theoretically be worse in that scenario, except that we know that the P+ is heavily traction limited at low speeds. Giving away some theoretical low end pull for double the traction is a good trade.