Mustang Mach E is a Gamechanger - My Opinion

[thx1139]

Oh, the model 3 can use an EA CCS charger? Really?

They can use the CHAdeMO adapter for the CHAdeMO charger. I dont know about all stations, but the EA by us all only have 1 CCS charger. The rest are CHAdeMO.

Also found from SuperCharge.Info that Tesla is up to 885 open Superchargers. Dont have a new total for stalls. Average of 8 per charger would mean that the stalls are up to at least 8200.

 

[MARKM3]

They can use the CHAdeMO adapter for the CHAdeMO charger. I dont know about all stations, but the EA by us all only have 1 CCS charger. The rest are CHAdeMO.

Also found from SuperCharge.Info that Tesla is up to 885 open Superchargers. Dont have a new total for stalls. Average of 8 per charger would mean that the stalls are up to at least 8200.

Well that sucks, because most of mine nearby are CCS and the Chademo only goes up to 50kw, whereas CCS is 350KW.

 

[Dan203]

Oh, the model 3 can use an EA CCS charger? Really?

No but they can use CHAdeMo if you buy a $400 adapter. Unfortunately the CHAdeMO port on most EA chargers is only 50KW, so it would be a bit slower than a real supercharger. But still faster than J1772

 

[Dan203]

Well that sucks, because most of mine nearby are CCS and the Chademo only goes up to 50kw, whereas CCS is 350KW.

The Model 3s sold in Europe come with CCS as their main charging port. They make an adapter for the S that converts CCS to the Tesla port style. I wonder why they don't just sell that in the US all Teslas to be capable of using CCS?

 

[thx1139]

Also remember in Europe Tesla uses CCS and a CCS adapter is coming.

 

[Knightshade]

Yes, so 300 miles vs 310 miles on my car

Well... no... most trims of the Mach E are significantly less than 300. And with a 25% larger battery to manage even that.

. My point is this, in the winter if the Mach E Wh/Mi Average without heat is 25% worse, or 300Wh/Mi average, the heat will play less of a role proportionally when driving the car.

Do you have any factual, source-provided, info to suggest this will be the case- or are you once again just wildly speculating about unannounced features of a car not even in production yet?

 

[MARKM3]

Well... no... most trims of the Mach E are significantly less than 300. And with a 25% larger battery to manage even that.



Do you have any factual, source-provided, info to suggest this will be the case- or are you once again just wildly speculating about unannounced features of a car not even in production yet?

Nope, just stating the obvious. Either way, it's roughly the same range as my car. Significantly less? AWD version is guaranteeing 270, that's only 30 miles lol. Why are you so contradictory?

 

[Dan203]

Well... no... most trims of the Mach E are significantly less than 300. And with a 25% larger battery to manage even that.

Tesla has some secret sauce when it comes to aerodynamics and efficiency. They get significantly more range out of similar size packs across the board. Even in their "big" Model X. That's what the other automakers need to figure out to catch up.

 

[MARKM3]

Tesla has some secret sauce when it comes to aerodynamics and efficiency. They get significantly more range out of similar size packs across the board. Even in their "big" Model X. That's what the other automakers need to figure out to catch up.

The aerodynamics are similar across all their cars drag coef, but the aero wheels on the model 3 add 15% range vs standard wheels. The motors are slightly more efficient also because they are using the halbach effect.

 

[SwedishSTIle]

The most rock solid vehicle I have owned from an interior fit/finsh perspective was a ford. I owned a 2015 F150 and it was far and away the quietest vehicle I have ever owned (among Ford, Audi, MB, BMW, VW, Tesla, Subaru and Honda). No rattles, squeaks, vibration, nothing. All despite running 34" allterrains and regularly abusing it off road. My Focus Electric was a similarly quiet and refined ride.

My Model 3 rattles everywhere. But I expected it. I liken in to a Subaru STI....its the hottest version of what is an econo box when you boil things down. Its a damn nice econo box, but a car designed with heavy budget constraints nonetheless.

If Ford had an extensive charging network, comparable performance, and comparable battery chemistry and management, I would absolutely buy a Ford EV. However, they dont currently have any of these. I am a die hard Ford Guy (Probe GT, Ranger, Taurus SHO, F-150, Cosworth Escort), I think Ford builds fantastic cars these days (not always the case), but the Mach E....sorry, I will keep my Model 3.

If they bridge the network or range gap ill buy an electric F-150.....If not I am afraid its going to be the horrendously ugly Cybertruck.

Im rooting for you FORD, you can do it!! The Cybertruck is terrible looking, but I WILL buy one if you dont do something amazing.

 

[MARKM3]

The model 3 performance with 21" rims sees about a 20-30% hit on EPA range, down to about 250.

 

[Dan203]

The aerodynamics are similar across all their cars drag coef, but the aero wheels on the model 3 add 15% range vs standard wheels. The motors are slightly more efficient also because they are using the halbach effect.

If it's all so well known why can't the other automakers match their efficiency? Is it all in the software?

 

[Dan203]

I liken in to a Subaru STI....its the hottest version of what is an econo box when you boil things down. Its a damn nice econo box, but a car designed with heavy budget constraints nonetheless.

I've made this same comparison several times. It's a $35k car with a $60k drive train. Not quite what I'm use to from a typical $60k luxury car. But it is a LOT faster and even handles better than my BMW 340i.

 

[MARKM3]

If it's all so well known why can't the other automakers match their efficiency? Is it all in the software?

Because Tesla has worked for many many years designing their motors and manufacturing process to even make a AC motor use the halbach effect. It is one thing to reverse engineer something, another to implement those manufacturing processes.

The halbach design adds such a small amount of efficiency gain but drives up the cost of producing the motor, so unless you are mass producing them it makes little since for AC motor companies such as Bauldor Reliance to manufacture a motor that only adds about 2-3% efficiency and more power to weight ratio. For a car, 2-3% can add up to 10 miles of additional range. It is more about economies of scale.

 

[j5555]

I like the look of the Mustang and the specs too--if it can get 300 mile range which to me is the minimum threshold to even be considered in a cold climate state like Illinois. Was thinking about adding one as second EV. However, 2 things I see make buying anything other than Tesla problematic.


1. The Tesla SC network is so far ahead of anything else it makes it tough to consider as you really need to think out your daily usage & charging needs especially if planing any longer distance drives. Electrify America may be viable, at some point, but certainly not any time soon. Maybe in 5 years?
2. Ford's (and perhaps others) dealer networks: Was thinking about placing a deposit so I went to a local Ford dealer to see if they at least had true color samples of what will be offered. They knew absolutely nothing about the vehicle, could care less, and told me it will not be out until next year and if I wanted any other info I could go online. They displayed complete disinterest in selling the EV.

 

[Dan203]

Because Tesla has worked for many many years designing their motors and manufacturing process to even make a AC motor use the halbach effect. It is one thing to reverse engineer something, another to implement those manufacturing processes.

The halbach design adds such a small amount of efficiency gain but drives up the cost of producing the motor, so unless you are mass producing them it makes little since for AC motor companies such as Bauldor Reliance to manufacture a motor that only adds about 2-3% efficiency and more power to weight ratio. For a car, 2-3% can add up to 10 miles of additional range. It is more about economies of scale.

So it's because right now the other automakers are buying parts from 3rd parties and just bolting them on. If they made them in house, like most do their engines, then maybe they'd be willing to put the effort into those things.

 

[Dan203]

To me the SC network's usefulness is a bit overblown. I'm betting the average Tesla owner doesn't take a roadtrip that requires one more than once a year, if that. Thinking back over the last 5 years I haven't driven anywhere that exceeds the range of my car. I'd likely have to SC once anyway to make a couple of the longer trips, but only because I drive like a maniac and cut the range down significantly from it's rated value. But even then it would have been like 3 times in the last 5 years. Other than that the range of the Tesla is well within my standard orbit and I live in an area where I make trips to a city 40 miles away pretty frequently. Which is why a smaller battery "city car" like the old Leaf or even the new Mini EV wouldn't work. I need 200+ miles of range to make that trip, do whatever I'm doing there, and get home without some range anxiety.

 

[MARKM3]

So it's because right now the other automakers are buying parts from 3rd parties and just bolting them on. If they made them in house, like most do their engines, then maybe they'd be willing to put the effort into those things.

No, Ford also build's their own AC motors. The difference is, to build a Halbach motor you have to become an AC motor company - or master that part of manufacturing. Think of that design like the Hellcat engine, it creates 700 horsepower or whatever. It took Dodge many years to design that motor to meet those requirements, and the same with AC motors and Ford, they will get there it just takes time. I do not know their current Motor efficiency or design, but there are articles on it on the web for you to read.

The biggest hurdle is not manufacturing the vehicle with the most efficient motors or the best blend of metals in your lithium battery, but the price tag and the range of the car. The efficiency will come as ford builds more and continues to engineer their batteries with LG and motors.

 

[thx1139]

The biggest hurdle is not manufacturing the vehicle with the most efficient motors or the best blend of metals in your lithium battery, but the price tag and the range of the car. The efficiency will come as ford builds more and continues to engineer their batteries with LG and motors.

You say this and assume that the Model 3 and Model Y sold in 2021 range will be the same as the ones selling in March 2020?

 

[MARKM3]

You say this and assume that the Model 3 and Model Y sold in 2021 range will be the same as the ones selling in March 2020?

It will get better, but so will every one else's EV.