My biggest surprise? They didn't show the seats folded for max cargo

[adiggs]

Ditto to Zextraterrestrial's and others' comments on hauling:
View attachment 96192
Note esp. the 5 gallons of VW emissions-juice there, and separately I've used the S for 70 gallons of that; for 30 ten-foot (!!!) 1" EMT conduit + ten sticks of 8' re-bar at the same time (for all: they just fit from lower back left to atop the rhs dashboard (protect that with something beforehand).

My attitude is: it's a car. A fine, inanimate hauling device. That's what cars are for. Not Some Thing To Be Pampered.

But a Tesla pickup would be preferable......:love:

Heh - that's how I use my Roadster, though admittedly the collection of stuff surrounding the car after unloading is a LOT smaller

Use it for everything, and a little more, that'll fit in there!

- - - Updated - - -

Any particular reason to not get an S then instead of settling for a Leaf or Soul?

- - - Updated - - -

A good point and also on the table. Model S might be my best settle for option, and is also on the table (along with completing the Sig X, waiting on Production X, waiting a longer time for X to evolve and be just right, CPO S, new S, ...).

The standard, rightly or wrongly, that each of these cars will be judged on will be my ability to get an 8' folding ladder into the car and close the hatch. The Honda CRX did that (folding front passenger seat makes a car a lot bigger for longish stuff).

None of my comments are intended to represent general usage for Model X (or S). They're 100% about my particular use. Model X for me is a better-in-every-way CRX (2 person station wagon). Except it turns out that it isn't.

I may need to spend some time with a Model S at our local showroom, and see just how big the back can be with everything folded flat.

(But that air filter for the cabin air - that's cool and might be valuable enough by itself to make a sale for me; or wait and see if it shows up on Model S).

 

[MrBoylan]

As with split folding rear seats, I was under the impression that the three seats can move independently of each other. So couldn't you just scoot one or two of the seats forward and leave the third behind for the third passenger? That would expand things to 60".

Yes. The 2nd row seats all move back and forth independently. The 3rd row seats are also independent in that you can have someone sitting in one while the other is laid flat (unlike my highlander which has a third row bench seat). So you could have two people in the second row. one in the third and still have a pretty long area to put longer cargo by sliding the 2nd row edge seat up and folding the third row seat on that same side.

-CB

 

[AmpedRealtor]

In answer to that question: Yes, when it was that major a change. No sense of entitlement.

Like many others I put down a large deposit when Tesla made a huge deal about the fold flat seating; that's what sold me on this car. There's no need to rant at folks who are now disappointed that this huge feature was discarded.

You put down a deposit on a concept, not an actual product. You put down money on an idea. That idea changed. You can have your money back. Sorry if that upsets you. ??

I wasn't gonna reply to this at all, but the fact that your username implies that you are a realtor makes me cringe.

Not implying. I am. No need to cringe.

Sometimes and some things are a matter of principle. As a realtor you should be rather familiar with these concepts.

"Matter of principle" is a universal concept not unique to Realtors, but as a Realtor I owe fiduciary duties to my clients. Most of the time, my clients couldn't care less about the principle and far more about achieving their goals in a negotiation. Real estate is not a business of principle. It is a business of making money for sellers, paying the least amount of money for buyers, and in the end it's about achieving specific outcomes. Sometimes that involves principle, but many times it does not. I should raise my tenant's rent in principle because the market has gone up, but I may choose not to because of other considerations surrounding the relationship, or simply as a loss mitigation decision.

When you make an offer on a house, you ask the seller to lower the price to the appraised value if the house doesn't appraise, on principle. But do you also ask the seller to raise the price if the property appraises to MORE than the contract purchase price? As the buyer, where are your principles then?

If this picture is to be treated like a pre-construction condo artist's concept then anything that Tesla promises/suggests from now on for their future products should be treated as possible total BS until the final product is actually delivered. Not sure if you wanna go there.

View attachment 96189

Of course it's a "sketch" in the most general sense of the word, in my opinion. It certainly doesn't rise to the level of a promise or a contract.

 

[wheresmyx?]

Does anybody know the length from the immediate back of the front seats to closed hatch?

I'm one of those people that prefer the fold flat 2nd row option and would like to start dreaming... I have a reservation number of 16xx and hope that Elon's announcement of this option (his Christmas gift to us) occurs prior to an email asking me to configure. We may also get insight on the next quartely earnings call, but that's not until November.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

So do they now have to explain why they get rid of the nose cone and xenon light in the concept Model X shown 3 years ago?

+100!

- - - Updated - - -

I think that is the point. If you don't have kids, you are not in the core demographic for CUVs.

If you want a hauler, why on earth would you want a $100K hauler? I'm sure some do, but not enough to build a company (or product) on.

I think many people are finding themselves outside the core demo for this product and wishing it were all things to all people, only to find it's not.

There are a ton of "soccer mom" (to use the goofy but catchy marketing phrase) buyers for CUVs, and a handful of other buyers.

Said much better than I. Completely concur.

- - - Updated - - -

Elon called it an SUV, not a CUV.

Elon also calls the Model S a sedan, when in reality, it's a hatchback.

- - - Updated - - -

So, let's say that you bought a house and put down a deposit. Before the closing date, an unfortunate incident happened that affected the structure of the home and require several supporting posts to be installed in the middle of the open concept living room. Your L shape couch no longer fits, you can no longer put your grand piano at the location you originally desired. Otherwise nothing is changed, if anything the house is now structurally stronger than ever.

If you are the buyer, wouldn't you want to be notified as soon as possible when the incident took place? Are you just simply gonna accept the changes as reality?

This is a poor analogy because the situation you are describing, and all options allowed therein, are governed by a written contract between buyer and seller. You have no contractual commitment from Tesla that they are going to deliver to you the exact same vehicle that was shown in the photograph at the time you put down your deposit, and add to that the fact that you knew, at the time you paid your deposit, that what you were seeing was a concept subject to change.

To continue the logical extension of the point you are trying to make, you should be similarly up in arms over the elimination of the black nose cone, the use of side view mirrors instead of cameras, or the fact that the car may not be available in the exact shade of the exact color as the prototype.

 

[X-Wing]

So much enthusiasm, so little willingness to see the facts. As much as people defend Tesla on this forum. Some of these PR and design decisions will ultimately come to hurt them. I guess at the end we will have to let the numbers do the talking.

 

[StephRob]

According to measurements on another thread, with the 2nd row slid back there is only 50". So you only get the meager 60" when the second row is all the way forward (car is in 2 person mode)! 50" is not enough to fit a single high backed chair! Very lame for any "utility" vehicle. I can't believe they destroyed the utility of the vehicle to make it easy to put infants in to car seats.

Totally agree

 

[NigelM]

You put down a deposit on a concept, not an actual product. You put down money on an idea. That idea changed. You can have your money back. Sorry if that upsets you. ??

You seem to be more upset than the people who are disappointed. But you framed my point perfectly, thank you; once Tesla changed the idea they could have let folks know and those folks who didn't want it could have taken their refunds.

 

[StephRob]

According to measurements on another thread, with the 2nd row slid back there is only 50". So you only get the meager 60" when the second row is all the way forward (car is in 2 person mode)! 50" is not enough to fit a single high backed chair! Very lame for any "utility" vehicle. I can't believe they destroyed the utility of the vehicle to make it easy to put infants in to car seats.

View attachment 96168

Oh my gosh, THIS is what I want.

 

[Cebe]

You seem to be more upset than the people who are disappointed. But you framed my point perfectly, thank you; once Tesla changed the idea they could have let folks know and those folks who didn't want it could have taken their refunds.

But they did, at the launch last night, when they showed what the final vehicle looks like.

 

[NigelM]

But they did, at the launch last night, when they showed what the final vehicle looks like.

Disingenuous. You know that the design was settled some time back; design, engineering, tooling is a process that takes many months.

 

[JenniferQ]

My biggest surprise was the fact that after seeing it, I don't think I want one. Well I do want one but not any more than I want a Model S. I'm relieved actually that I can be perfectly content to shop in the CPO Model S marketplace in the spring, keep more $$ invested and not be green with envy when I eventually see an X in the wild. Anyone else feel "meh" about tonight's launch? Like watching the iPad mini announcement.

Totally agree. And as one who "jumped ship on model x reservation" I was pleased with my decision to go Model S. But, I also don't have little ones to cart around anymore. Not sure what I would have thought if I still had carseats, but I'd know I'd want those middle seats to fold flat!

 

[yesup]

once Tesla changed the idea they could have let folks know and those folks who didn't want it could have taken their refunds.

That's not a good idea.

it is much better to show the buyer the final product before making a decision. Otherwise you are asking the buyer to decide based on one feature of the car!

 

[simplejack]

Judging by the reaction to the lack of folding 2nd row, I would predict that the 1% you're referencing is a significant under-estimate. And I don't see how having a folding-seat option would create any compromises for the rest of the use-cases. A customer could choose fold or sculpture.

But I am 100% certain that which ever side you fall on (fold or sculpture) having more sales of the Model-X would be a good thing for everyone that owns a Tesla vehicle and/or Tesla stock. A folding seat option should increase sales.

This is how I feel. Why does everyone insist on arguing that a folding second row isn't needed?

Every car Tesla is benchmarking it against has folding 2nd row seats. What makes all of you "it doesn't matter if they fold" crowd think the entire segment is wrong and Tesla is right? They WILL lose sales over this. There's absolutely no reason you can't have the functionality that Tesla demonstrated yesterday AND have folding seats.

The real innovation isn't the seats, it's the doors and the access they provide. It appeared to me that a standard 60/40 split folding second row would offer the same access feature and more utility.

- - - Updated - - -

You put down a deposit on a concept, not an actual product. You put down money on an idea. That idea changed. You can have your money back. Sorry if that upsets you. ??



Not implying. I am. No need to cringe.



"Matter of principle" is a universal concept not unique to Realtors, but as a Realtor I owe fiduciary duties to my clients. Most of the time, my clients couldn't care less about the principle and far more about achieving their goals in a negotiation. Real estate is not a business of principle. It is a business of making money for sellers, paying the least amount of money for buyers, and in the end it's about achieving specific outcomes. Sometimes that involves principle, but many times it does not. I should raise my tenant's rent in principle because the market has gone up, but I may choose not to because of other considerations surrounding the relationship, or simply as a loss mitigation decision.

When you make an offer on a house, you ask the seller to lower the price to the appraised value if the house doesn't appraise, on principle. But do you also ask the seller to raise the price if the property appraises to MORE than the contract purchase price? As the buyer, where are your principles then?



Of course it's a "sketch" in the most general sense of the word, in my opinion. It certainly doesn't rise to the level of a promise or a contract.

So, you'd be cool if they swapped in an ICE since you know, it's just a concept we all put a deposit down on.

 

[Six]

This is how I feel. Why does everyone insist on arguing that a folding second row isn't needed?

Every car Tesla is benchmarking it against has folding 2nd row seats. What makes all of you "it doesn't matter if they fold" crowd think the entire segment is wrong and Tesla is right? They WILL lose sales over this. There's absolutely no reason you can't have the functionality that Tesla demonstrated yesterday AND have folding seats.

The real innovation isn't the seats, it's the doors and the access they provide. It appeared to me that a standard 60/40 split folding second row would offer the same access feature and more utility.

Every car they compete with has an internal combustion engine as well. Sometimes going a different path is a good thing.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other on the seats but I like that Tesla makes its own choices. I would prefer they talk about those choices a bit more. Did they not build folding seats for safety reasons? comfort reasons? they disagree on the utility issue? I would be curious to know. I personally don't believe a theory that says building folding seats is too hard or they ran out of time, I believe it was a considered design and engineering choice. I just wish they had talked a little bit more about it.

 

[NigelM]

Otherwise you are asking the buyer to decide based on one feature of the car!

Although Tesla made a big deal about the flat open space, "You could almost get a queen size mattress in there", and asked for people to place deposits on that basis. The folding seats were reiterated in communications and newsletter....

It's ok for some people to be disappointed that a (the!) big feature changed from what was communicated; I don't understand why there's apparently a bunch of TMC members suggesting we're wrong to be disappointed.

 

[russman]

Would we prefer Tesla not show anything and just release a final car?

Isn't that what most MFGs do? There's a proto-type at a car show and then that's it. What you see is the model year car that is released. That's it.

Kind of this big gripe about guessing what is going to be in the next version of software. They can go with the, we don't know anything, we can't wish for anything and we get what we get.

As a side note, I would have preferred flat seats, but I also don't think what they did was unethical or anything.

 

[MrBoylan]

Although Tesla made a big deal about the flat open space, "You could almost get a queen size mattress in there", and asked for people to place deposits on that basis. The folding seats were reiterated in communications and newsletter....

It's ok for some people to be disappointed that a (the!) big feature changed from what was communicated; I don't understand why there's apparently a bunch of TMC members suggesting we're wrong to be disappointed.

I'm disappointed they don't fold flat. I think Elon is also disappointed, but that's just me speculating. I believe Elon wanted rotating, sculptural, beautiful pedestal seats that folded flat. And I do think they finally hit that hard Q3 deadline, he was embarrassed about the extended delay and he decided they had to fish or cut bait and go with something that they could deliver - something that was also comfortable, safe and otherwise functional - by the end of Q3. And they simply didn't have enough time to work out all the engineering and production challenges to make the seats do everything he wanted them to do. I could be wrong but it makes sense to me.

But I've also weighed the positives: Falcon Wing Doors, comfortable seating for 7, gorgeous picture windshield, generous storage, fabulous handling and acceleration, over-the-top safety, oh and 100% electric with zero emissions. And I've decided the positives far outweigh the negatives. What's the expression, "The Perfect is the enemy of the Good"? In this case, even with the lack of a folding second row (perfect), the Model X is still really freaking good and I'm glad it's finally here.

At least you have an S to tool around in while you wait and see if/when they offer different seating options for the X.

 

[Tam]

Tesla does not owe you or anyone else any explanations regarding their internal design decisions.

Your statement is correct IF Tesla didn't make a claim then didn't keep reinforcing that same claim again!

If Tesla claimed that the nose will be exactly like from the Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer then would reinforce that claim again "the nose would flash red" then yes, they do owe an explanation!

 

[pvogel]

Did anyone attending the MX release take cargo measurements with third row folded? I too was dismayed that Elon didn't address or even demonstrate cargo capacity.

Read my 'tale of the tape' post. I took measurements all over Elon's car, in all seat configurations