My biggest surprise? They didn't show the seats folded for max cargo

[AmpedRealtor]

No, I'm saying I'm really disappointed that Tesla went with that "thin wireway" as you call it. It's ugly. It's dumb-looking. It has no business being there. That's what I am saying. I didn't say any more than that.

How can you say these things unless you've seen it up close and personal? What if the conduit is wrapped in beautiful leather or alcantara, or is otherwise done in a way to eliminate the objection?

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I would consider that misrepresentation from Tesla. Not a very good business practice that's for sure. But Tesla certainly hinted folding 2nd row seat, the availability of that feature is a material fact to many perspective buyers. Hence the reason why Tesla included in the early presentation slides. Not conveying the change in design and specification to the early buyers with deposits down is an ethical issue. Plain and simple.

Are you kidding? You are saying that Tesla is guilty of MISREPRESENTATION because the specifications of the final, production version of Model S are different from the concept vehicle and some of the prototypes? And that Tesla should have informed deposit holders when it changed said specifications? Talk about a sense of entitlement. Everyone who put down a deposit knew that they were putting down a deposit on a product that could change. And you can get a refund on your deposit, too. So what's the problem?

If Tesla had to listen to people like you, it would never have made a car. Ever.

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It may not involve with monetary deposits at all!

The ethical part involves with trust, worthiness, credibility and truthfulness.

Tesla gave us the perception that foldable second row seats were in the plan.

Tesla has never denied that the plan for foldable second row seats have been aborted.

As a matter of fact, instead of denying it, Tesla reinforced that plan again in an e-mail.

Officially, Elon never said in yesterday presentation that the plan for foldable second row seats failed.

He praised the second row seats yesterday but he never said that they could not fold flat.

The engineering way is to tell us how other companies could do it and Tesla brightest and best could not.

For many of us, it is not about refundable deposits plain and simple.

The ethical way is to help us to make informed decisions: Model X's maximum rear trunk depth/length dimension in numbers as compared with Model S.

The ethical way is to come out the closet and tell us what happened.

Tesla does not owe you or anyone else any explanations regarding their internal design decisions. That's like demanding that Tesla explain why the Model S has a black nose-cone when some of the early prototype vehicles lacked said nose-cone. Was Tesla acting unethically when it showed a Mercedes interior in the concept Model S and then switched to a much more pedestrian and utilitarian interior for the actual production car?

This is the car. Period. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, cancel your order or move it to Model S. You don't have a right to make any such demands of Tesla, and I would suggest you change your expectations because no company on earth - none that I know of - would grant you any of the things you are asking for.

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As I said, whether the seats fold flat or not doesn't really affect me. But other perspective buyers could've relied what Tesla showed in previous presentations to make their purchase decision.

The opportunity cost for them being lost interest on the deposit and/or decision to purchase a competing product that they can enjoy sooner without the wait. What we have here is classic bait and switch IMHO.

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Talk about going off the deep end. Has someone put this thread into Ludicrous Mode all of a sudden?

Lost interest on your deposit?? Seriously... is this what the poor people at Tesla have to contend with after putting so much thought and effort into this gorgeous electric car?

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With all due respect I don't understand all the angst about second row seats and not being able to stow mattresses or furniture or large plywood in the MX. Come on, it's a $100K plus world class vehicle, which I certainly plan to purchase with my production reservation in the 600's to share HPWC in garage with Sig MS. I happen to haul furniture and plywood (not mattresses) and lots of other stuff but do it in my Chevy pickup, would never want to use expensive vehicle. Never can satisfy all of the people all of the time. But MS now with 35,000 miles by far best car we have ever had, look forward to Rock Paper Scissors with wife to see who gets to drive the MX. Cheers.

Agreed. So much complaining about not being able to fill the Model X with plywood, 2x4 posts, etc. I don't know anyone who hauls those kinds of things in their family SUV or minivan, let alone one that costs over $70,000. Model X is not for people who want to use it like a Ford F150. Those people should buy a Ford F150. Model X is not a pickup truck. If someone is disappointed that they can't use it like one, perhaps it's the wrong car for them.

How many of you haul wood planks, decking, 2x4s, flag poles, or whatever else in your Porsche Cayenne? Mercedes GLE? BMW X6? Range Rover Sport? Cadillac SRX?

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I haul 8' 2X4, 4X4 & ripped sheets of ply in my Model S.
why not in an X? well, a trailer would do it better I guess

but hey I use my S as a pickup, camper, racer, daily driver...

 

[MrBoylan]

Oh, be ready for much more ridiculous complaints, particularly from forum newbies. Tesla's got big oil and traditional auto makers scared and I wouldn't be surprised if they're paying people to plant seeds of doubt about the Model X and Tesla in general everywhere they can - article comments and forums being the low hanging fruit. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the same BS complaints about Tesla and it's products cut and pasted into articles as comments. Whatever they can do to advance their "cause." Tesla is disruptive and innovative and that makes the "establishment" very nervous. Our only recourse is to fight the FUD with FACTS at every turn.

Not saying Tesla (or the Model X) are perfect. But, after the reveal event and riding in one, I'm ready to confirm my reservation TODAY and I think the Model X is going to be another huge hit for Tesla, and it will only get better with time.

P.s. to get back on topic, with the frunk airstream trailer and tons of people and gear piling out of the Model X, I think they showed storage capacity pretty well at the event.

 

[BornToFly]

How many of you haul wood planks, decking, 2x4s, flag poles, or whatever else in your Porsche Cayenne? Mercedes GLE? BMW X6? Range Rover Sport? Cadillac SRX?

Everyone I know, myself included, use their big, expensive, ICE sport UTILITY vehicle, for the occasional UTILITY. It goes against Tesla's core mission, of sustainable transport, if we have to keep our aging ICE vehicles after buying a Model X just because they didn't put a hinge in the second row. HOW FREAKING STUPID IS THAT!! I shouldn't have to buy a pickup truck, to throw my bike into the back on occasion, or rent a truck if I happen to see something large in the store that I wanted to buy and bring home. The Model X is not going to be the end all vehicle of vehicles for everyone, but a folding second row is very basic and should be standard in a sport UTILITY vehicle that can carry 7 people. I will bet anyone that Tesla has already realized their major mistake, and will have a folding second row by the end of next year, AND that it will outsell the current second row. Don't come back with the crash test excuse, because if the little pedestals and mechanisms that move the seat all around are strong enough, they can make a locking steel hinge strong enough.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I haul 8' 2X4, 4X4 & ripped sheets of ply in my Model S.
why not in an X? well, a trailer would do it better I guess

but hey I use my S as a pickup, camper, racer, daily driver...

You're a better and braver man than I! I don't even let my spouse drive my Model S.

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Everyone I know, myself included, use their big ICE sport UTILITY vehicle, for the occasional UTILITY. It goes against Tesla's core mission, of sustainable transport, if we have to keep our aging ICE vehicles after buying a Model X just because they didn't put a hinge in the second row. HOW FREAKING STUPID IS THAT!! I shouldn't have to buy a pickup truck, to throw my bike into the back on occasion, or rent a truck if I happen to see something large in the store that I wanted to buy and bring home. The Model X is not going to be the end all vehicle of vehicles for everyone, but a folding second row is very basic and should be standard in a sport UTILITY vehicle that can carry 7 people. I will bet anyone that Tesla has already realized their major mistake, and will have a folding second row by the end of next year, AND that it will outsell the current second row. Don't come back with the crash test excuse, because if the little pedestals and mechanisms that move the seat all around are strong enough, they can make a locking steel hinge strong enough.

I'm just saying that nobody I know who owns a family SUV or minivan hauls those kinds of things in their cars like what has been mentioned in this thread. Everyone I know either has a pickup truck for those things, which Tesla has yet to design, or they have such items delivered. Based upon the final design of the 2nd row and Musk's emphasis on safety during the launch, it's clear that Tesla's target audience with this car is women. Women don't haul lumber. They haul kids. And I don't know of anyone who buys an expensive SUV with an eye towards carrying things inside of it that could damage it. But that's just me.

 

[NigelM]

And that Tesla should have informed deposit holders when it changed said specifications? Talk about a sense of entitlement.

In answer to that question: Yes, when it was that major a change. No sense of entitlement.

Like many others I put down a large deposit when Tesla made a huge deal about the fold flat seating; that's what sold me on this car. There's no need to rant at folks who are now disappointed that this huge feature was discarded.

 

[X-Wing]

... And that Tesla should have informed deposit holders when it changed said specifications? Talk about a sense of entitlement.
...
Tesla does not owe you or anyone else any explanations regarding their internal design decisions.
...
Lost interest on your deposit?? Seriously... is this what the poor people at Tesla have to contend with after putting so much thought and effort into this gorgeous electric car?

I wasn't gonna reply to this at all, but the fact that your username implies that you are a realtor makes me cringe.

Sometimes and some things are a matter of principle. As a realtor you should be rather familiar with these concepts.

If this picture is to be treated like a pre-construction condo artist's concept then anything that Tesla promises/suggests from now on for their future products should be treated as possible total BS until the final product is actually delivered. Not sure if you wanna go there.

 

[tonyinc]

Everyone I know, myself included, use their big, expensive, ICE sport UTILITY vehicle, for the occasional UTILITY. It goes against Tesla's core mission, of sustainable transport, if we have to keep our aging ICE vehicles after buying a Model X just because they didn't put a hinge in the second row. HOW FREAKING STUPID IS THAT!! I shouldn't have to buy a pickup truck, to throw my bike into the back on occasion, or rent a truck if I happen to see something large in the store that I wanted to buy and bring home. The Model X is not going to be the end all vehicle of vehicles for everyone, but a folding second row is very basic and should be standard in a sport UTILITY vehicle that can carry 7 people. I will bet anyone that Tesla has already realized their major mistake, and will have a folding second row by the end of next year, AND that it will outsell the current second row. Don't come back with the crash test excuse, because if the little pedestals and mechanisms that move the seat all around are strong enough, they can make a locking steel hinge strong enough.

I agree 100%!! People are not complaining that they can't haul huge loads of lumber. With a third passenger you will only have about 50"! That is not enough to bring a dining room chair home. Not as much as most compact hatchbacks with one rear seat folded down.

The six seat option will likely solve this for me, but if you want 7 passengers, you have to give up a capability almost any other car, let alone SUV has.

 

[AudubonB]

Ditto to Zextraterrestrial's and others' comments on hauling:

Note esp. the 5 gallons of VW emissions-juice there, and separately I've used the S for 70 gallons of that; for 30 ten-foot (!!!) 1" EMT conduit + ten sticks of 8' re-bar at the same time (for all: they just fit from lower back left to atop the rhs dashboard (protect that with something beforehand).

My attitude is: it's a car. A fine, inanimate hauling device. That's what cars are for. Not Some Thing To Be Pampered.

But a Tesla pickup would be preferable......:love:

 

[stopcrazypp]

I agree 100%!! People are not complaining that they can't haul huge loads of lumber. With a third passenger you will only have about 50"! That is not enough to bring a dining room chair home. Not as much as most compact hatchbacks with one rear seat folded down.

The six seat option will likely solve this for me, but if you want 7 passengers, you have to give up a capability almost any other car, let alone SUV has.

As with split folding rear seats, I was under the impression that the three seats can move independently of each other. So couldn't you just scoot one or two of the seats forward and leave the third behind for the third passenger? That would expand things to 60".

 

[bollar]

How many of you haul wood planks, decking, 2x4s, flag poles, or whatever else in your Porsche Cayenne? Mercedes GLE? BMW X6? Range Rover Sport? Cadillac SRX?

<Raises hand> Fortunately, I already have Tesla's hauling car.

But to answer your question, I have been known to use any vehicle in hand for a quick hauling job. In this case, a Mercedes CL 55 AMG... It's a lot easier to have a car that can do some occasional hauling than it is to rent / own something that can obviously do the job.

And since you mentioned things people don't do with Range Rovers, I submit this entry:

 

[eddiemoy]

biggest surprise was that no SUV before this one had 5 star in every category of safety.

 

[yesup]

Tesla gave us the perception that foldable second row seats were in the plan.
.....
The ethical way is to come out the closet and tell us what happened.

What do you want them to say? Put out a press release and say that there are engineering obstacles or parts supply logistics that they could not overcome?
Why would they release anything negative which would get quoted in every news and reviews the next day???

No car manufacturers would do that.
We all know that it was in the plan and it was abandoned for a reason. Elon may talk about it in a late night talk show in the future, but no way would it be mentioned during a car launch.

Sometimes and some things are a matter of principle......
If this picture is to be treated like a pre-construction condo artist's concept then anything that Tesla promises/suggests from now on for their future products should be treated as possible total BS until the final product is actually delivered. Not sure if you wanna go there.

This is not a matter of principle - just a matter of reality.
I am sure Tesla would love to have the second row somehow magically disappear with a press of a button.
They tried for 3 years and there are problems which could not be solved - maybe technical, maybe cost. And they have to make a decision of a compromise.

So do they now have to explain why they get rid of the nose cone and xenon light in the concept Model X shown 3 years ago?

 

[gizmoboy]

I think the point is for those of us without a gaggle of kids, the X doesn't make that much sense.

We have the S, it has a decent amount of cargo space but not enough for everything. So why bother with the X?

I think that is the point. If you don't have kids, you are not in the core demographic for CUVs.

If you want a hauler, why on earth would you want a $100K hauler? I'm sure some do, but not enough to build a company (or product) on.

I think many people are finding themselves outside the core demo for this product and wishing it were all things to all people, only to find it's not.

There are a ton of "soccer mom" (to use the goofy but catchy marketing phrase) buyers for CUVs, and a handful of other buyers.

 

[tonyinc]

I think that is the point. If you don't have kids, you are not in the core demographic for CUVs.

If you want a hauler, why on earth would you want a $100K hauler? I'm sure some do, but not enough to build a company (or product) on.

I think many people are finding themselves outside the core demo for this product and wishing it were all things to all people, only to find it's not.

There are a ton of "soccer mom" (to use the goofy but catchy marketing phrase) buyers for CUVs, and a handful of other buyers.

You are missing the point, people are not requesting a "hauler" just as much room as a many compact hatchback cars have. All they want is to fit a couple bikes or a dining room chair. There is a reason nearly every car, including the S has this capability. With the trunk pass through my Mercedes C63 AMG can fit much longer items.

Time will tell, but I would bet when people see how small that actually is, the 6 seat option will be the most popular. Eventually, I bet we see a foldable second row.

 

[BornToFly]

I think that is the point. If you don't have kids, you are not in the core demographic for CUVs.

Elon called it an SUV, not a CUV.

If you want a hauler, why on earth would you want a $100K hauler? I'm sure some do, but not enough to build a company (or product) on.

Just design seats with a hinge in the second row, and problem solved. Don't need a whole new product!

I think many people are finding themselves outside the core demo for this product and wishing it were all things to all people, only to find it's not.

There are a ton of "soccer mom" (to use the goofy but catchy marketing phrase) buyers for CUVs, and a handful of other buyers.

Wrong again. My wife might be the primary driver of this vehicle, but it is supposed to be the large SUV of the family, that is supposed to get used for the occasional trip to the store when purchases don't fit into Daddy's sedan or sports car.

 

[tonyinc]

How stupid would you feel if you had to call your friend with a Honda Fit to help you bring home a 7' curtain rod?

 

[aesculus]

An interesting tidbit from last night: While waiting, and waiting and waiting we talked about the Model X amongst strangers you were rubbing shoulders with beyond everyone's comfort zone. I would periodically bring up the non folding seat topic when we met new people.

Almost everyone we talked to did not realize that the second row seats did not fold. Also you will notice on the video that when Elon made the statement about how much utility the X had with regard to the seats, there was not much of an applause. Everyone was much more responsive with the trailer and the HEPA filter.:smile:

 

[X-Wing]

This is not a matter of principle - just a matter of reality.

So, let's say that you bought a house and put down a deposit. Before the closing date, an unfortunate incident happened that affected the structure of the home and require several supporting posts to be installed in the middle of the open concept living room. Your L shape couch no longer fits, you can no longer put your grand piano at the location you originally desired. Otherwise nothing is changed, if anything the house is now structurally stronger than ever.

If you are the buyer, wouldn't you want to be notified as soon as possible when the incident took place? Are you just simply gonna accept the changes as reality?

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How stupid would you feel if you had to call your friend with a Honda Fit to help you bring home a 7' curtain rod?

LOL, it does sound pretty bad when you put it that way. That Honda Fit though, really does got some amazing packaging and storage possibilities.

 

[TslaIsFuture]

How can you say these things unless you've seen it up close and personal? What if the conduit is wrapped in beautiful leather or alcantara, or is otherwise done in a way to eliminate the objection?

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Are you kidding? You are saying that Tesla is guilty of MISREPRESENTATION because the specifications of the final, production version of Model S are different from the concept vehicle and some of the prototypes? And that Tesla should have informed deposit holders when it changed said specifications? Talk about a sense of entitlement. Everyone who put down a deposit knew that they were putting down a deposit on a product that could change. And you can get a refund on your deposit, too. So what's the problem?

If Tesla had to listen to people like you, it would never have made a car. Ever.

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Tesla does not owe you or anyone else any explanations regarding their internal design decisions. That's like demanding that Tesla explain why the Model S has a black nose-cone when some of the early prototype vehicles lacked said nose-cone. Was Tesla acting unethically when it showed a Mercedes interior in the concept Model S and then switched to a much more pedestrian and utilitarian interior for the actual production car?

This is the car. Period. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, cancel your order or move it to Model S. You don't have a right to make any such demands of Tesla, and I would suggest you change your expectations because no company on earth - none that I know of - would grant you any of the things you are asking for.

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Talk about going off the deep end. Has someone put this thread into Ludicrous Mode all of a sudden?

Lost interest on your deposit?? Seriously... is this what the poor people at Tesla have to contend with after putting so much thought and effort into this gorgeous electric car?

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Agreed. So much complaining about not being able to fill the Model X with plywood, 2x4 posts, etc. I don't know anyone who hauls those kinds of things in their family SUV or minivan, let alone one that costs over $70,000. Model X is not for people who want to use it like a Ford F150. Those people should buy a Ford F150. Model X is not a pickup truck. If someone is disappointed that they can't use it like one, perhaps it's the wrong car for them.

How many of you haul wood planks, decking, 2x4s, flag poles, or whatever else in your Porsche Cayenne? Mercedes GLE? BMW X6? Range Rover Sport? Cadillac SRX?

AMEN!!!