My car won't charge faster than 60kW

[Zarwin]

Huh, I would've thought demand peaks would correspond to those on my TOU plan. Meaning afternoon instead of morning. What happens between 6-10 AM? Factories starting up?

Has anyone experienced throttling on weekends?

I actually missed a little info, but it doesn't change my previous post. We are still in "winter" rates until the end of this month. Here are the windows:

On-Peak Periods for Time-of-Use Rates:
Monday through Friday as follows:
November through March . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 to 10 a.m. / 6 to 10 p.m.
April through October . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Noon to 9 p.m.

This info is from here:

https://www.duke-energy.com/pdfs/pe-rates-PEFcommercialrateinsert.pdf

I'll also say I have no idea if the Superchargers are being billed with TOU demand plans or not. I did see a TOU meter on the Supercharger in Santee, SC, but have no idea about any others.

 

[Depeche Mode]

I actually missed a little info, but it doesn't change my previous post. We are still in "winter" rates until the end of this month. Here are the windows:

On-Peak Periods for Time-of-Use Rates:
Monday through Friday as follows:
November through March . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 to 10 a.m. / 6 to 10 p.m.
April through October . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Noon to 9 p.m.

This info is from here:

https://www.duke-energy.com/pdfs/pe-rates-PEFcommercialrateinsert.pdf

I'll also say I have no idea if the Superchargers are being billed with TOU demand plans or not. I did see a TOU meter on the Supercharger in Santee, SC, but have no idea about any others.

No TOU in Montréal (whole Province of Québec where Hydro-Québec is the only electric company)
Though in Ontario we have TOU (mainly Hydro-One)

The funny thing is that I'm not throttled at Cornwall SC (Ontario) and I'm throttled at Montréal SC (Québec)...

 

[tga]

Can we please stop theorizing that this is demand charge related? It's not. Throttling individual users does nothing to help demand charges. This thread has gone completely into the weeds.

On most US-based commercial electric rate plans I am aware of, commercial/industrial users are charged demand charges based on the peak usage anytime in that month. To limit demand charges at one supercharger site would mean you would need to cap the entire draw, for the entire month. This is simply not what is happening!

Individual users are being limited at a particular SC. Throttling cars A, B, and C to 60kW (or even 6kW) does nothing to limit demand charges, if the next car charges at 120kW. It's all about the peak usage (typ in a 15 min window) over the entire month.

The idea behind demand charges is that you need to build out the grid (and a user's connection to it) to handle their peak loads, even if they rarely hit it. If you use 100 kW for 15 min a month (25kWh), you still need a connection capable of delivering that level of power, which costs way more to provision than a connection delivering a constant 1 kW over the entire month (720kWh).

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Also, please don't harass the service centers until after Elon's press conference. If this behavior has anything to do with Thursday's announcement (I bet it does), the service centers won't steal his thunder and tell you anything beforehand. And that assumes they know anything about it in advance, which I highly doubt.

 

[Larry Chanin]

On most US-based commercial electric rate plans I am aware of, commercial/industrial users are charged demand charges based on the peak usage anytime in that month. To limit demand charges at one supercharger site would mean you would need to cap the entire draw, for the entire month. This is simply not what is happening!

Not exactly. Demand throttling would only have to be invoked if demand over the current demand interval was approaching the monthly peak. Only then would it be necessary to throttle demand. Yes, you would have to monitor demand for the entire month, but you would only have to invoke throttling at selected busy periods.

Larry

 

[JRP3]

Originally Posted by Archer Other rep said "stop reading the forums". Until there's an official announcement from TM or Elon don't believe everything you read on the forums.

Best advice so far.

I'd also add to that: "Don't believe everything that someone at Tesla tells you". In between the "noise" the right answer has often been presented on the forums before anywhere else.

 

[apacheguy]

I'd also add to that: "Don't believe everything that someone at Tesla tells you". In between the "noise" the right answer has often been presented on the forums before anywhere else.

This is absolutely right. I've been given incorrect info from the SvC folks before. Found out what I had read on TMC was actually correct. Granted there's a lot of speculation because that's what forums are for, but the right answer is usually there. You just have to look for it.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Good luck on that one. Many people have been rejected even after offering to pay for installation. Just trying to get the HVAC fixed in an apartment is a major undertaking--and it's supposed to work as part of your rent.

That's exactly why I'm advocating against instituting a penalty for those who charge locally. Doing so makes no sense for those who live in apartments and condos where they are not allowed to install chargers. The number of such owners is probably in the minority and doesn't make a meaningful impact to Tesla's financials.

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I'm sure someone will blow a gasket over this, but...

Maybe, just maybe, US buyers who can't charge at home or work shouldn't buy a Tesla (or any other electric car, for that matter)? I can't imaging buying an electric car without control over my own charging situation.

China (and London) are different altogether. Superchargers are being built there for the express purpose of supporting local residents. That's not happening here (yet).

Once the intercity supercharger network is (mostly) done, we can worry about the intracity network to support apartment and condo dwellers. Clearly Tesla is focusing on intercity first.

While I generally agree that charging at home is a big part of the EV advantage for me, I find it difficult to impose my lifestyle on others. I have some understanding for those who cannot charge at home, but still want the EV experience and want to drive a Model S. I think they still deserve to buy this car even though they may live in an apartment. Such owners would not charging every day, but likely every few days, and would represent very little added burden on the Supercharger network because they are a tiny minority of customers.

 

[brianman]

I am only getting 60kW at:

Rancho Cucamonga (5 miles from my home)
Cabazon (55 miles from my home)
San Juan Capistrano ( 56 miles from my home)


Not throttled at:

Indio (91 miles)
Bartstow (73 miles)

Just to complete the data set...

In the future it would be useful to include the SOC% at the beginning of the charge session.

As an example, in the absence of other information I could hypothesize that the car was 70+% SOC when charging at the "near" ones in Ob's list but likely 60-% SOC for the "far" ones.

 

[Obsoletion]

Just to complete the data set...

In the future it would be useful to include the SOC% at the beginning of the charge session.

As an example, in the absence of other information I could hypothesize that the car was 70+% SOC when charging at the "near" ones in Ob's list but likely 60-% SOC for the "far" ones.

Every charge i tested that came in at 59kW was at a SoC of 25-35%

 

[MikeC]

I can see no reason that Tesla would ever slow down Superchargers intentionally. For anyone that thinks it's related to Tesla trying to save money, this is from the 2014 10K released last month:

"As of December 31, 2014 and 2013 the net book value of our Supercharger network was $107.8 million and $25.6 million and currently includes 380 locations globally. We plan to continue investing in our Supercharger network for the foreseeable future, including in North America, Europe and Asia and expect such spending to be approximately 5% of total capital spending over the next 12 months. We allocate Supercharger related expenses to cost of revenues automotive sales and selling, general, and administrative expenses. These costs were immaterial for all periods presented. "

If there's one thing I know, TM is not pinching pennies, they have zero problems spending staggering amounts of money to build up the brand. I think it's either a bug or related to the announcement Thursday. I just can't conceive why it would ever be desirable to slow down a Supercharger, though.

 

[brianman]

Every charge i tested that came in at 59kW was at a SoC of 25-35%

Thanks for the data, Ob!

 

[apacheguy]

If there's one thing I know, TM is not pinching pennies, they have zero problems spending staggering amounts of money to build up the brand. I think it's either a bug or related to the announcement Thursday. I just can't conceive why it would ever be desirable to slow down a Supercharger, though.

Right, Elon will have to give a damn good reason why slower SpC = less range anxiety. I do think the answer to this seemingly random 60 kW limit will become clear after the press conference.

 

[jotarou1]

Folsom/Roseville, CA Superchargers limited to 58kW, anyone else see this before?

Hello All,
I wanted to know if anybody recently Supercharged at the Folsom or Roseville (Sacramento, CA area) stations. For this past month whenever we stop in and do a quick Supercharge, our Model S has been limited to 58kW max charging. This is regardless of the State of Charge, temperature outside, charging station, shared charging A/B, time of day, total cars at station. It hasn't been freezing and it hasn't been over 100 degrees in Sacramento this past month. I do know about not sharing the 1A/1B, 2A/2B ports, I know that the closer you are to full it tapers. I have tried charging it starting from a low of 8 miles and other times starting at 70+ miles, and it still goes up to 58kW and stays there until it begins to taper down after 150+ rated miles of charge.

The service center took a look at it and they could find no issues. Also on the same afternoon that I tried in Roseville and was limited to 58kW, I took it to Rocklin and it charged at the max 120kW without issues... Service center is stumped and just wondering if anybody else has seen a similar issue.

Let me know,

Thanks!

2013 85kW Model S

 

[FlasherZ]

Enjoy:
My car won't charge faster than 60kW

...all 40 pages of speculation.

Seriously, some people are seeing it with specific cars at specific SC's. No pattern has been established yet but there is a bunch of wild speculation that doesn't line up with the data, yet.

Your data points at the end of the other thread would probably help.

 

[jotarou1]

Thanks Flasher, just saw that right after I posted...!! I did a search for 58kW and found a thread from last year.

 

[SFOTurtle]

How far does the OP live from the Folsom and Roseville Superchargers? I assume not far if they are routinely popping in to get a charge.

 

[hiroshiy]

Can we please stop theorizing that this is demand charge related? It's not. Throttling individual users does nothing to help demand charges. This thread has gone completely into the weeds.

On most US-based commercial electric rate plans I am aware of, commercial/industrial users are charged demand charges based on the peak usage anytime in that month. To limit demand charges at one supercharger site would mean you would need to cap the entire draw, for the entire month. This is simply not what is happening!

Individual users are being limited at a particular SC. Throttling cars A, B, and C to 60kW (or even 6kW) does nothing to limit demand charges, if the next car charges at 120kW. It's all about the peak usage (typ in a 15 min window) over the entire month.

The idea behind demand charges is that you need to build out the grid (and a user's connection to it) to handle their peak loads, even if they rarely hit it. If you use 100 kW for 15 min a month (25kWh), you still need a connection capable of delivering that level of power, which costs way more to provision than a connection delivering a constant 1 kW over the entire month (720kWh).

- - - Updated - - -

Also, please don't harass the service centers until after Elon's press conference. If this behavior has anything to do with Thursday's announcement (I bet it does), the service centers won't steal his thunder and tell you anything beforehand. And that assumes they know anything about it in advance, which I highly doubt.

Agree on demand charges not causing this situation. In the US it seems they need to keep the demand lower than the threshold for one month, but in Japan for one year. 15 minutes of two Osaka drivers charging at a Supercharger in Tokyo, you get highest demand charge for one year. To reduce demand charges Tesla needs to implement smart power control, which basically caps the total power draw of all SC units, not individual unit.

 

[SteveS0353]

85kWh P85+ supercharged at Rancho Cucamonga today, 88 miles from home in San Diego, started charge at 49% SoC, and quickly hit 100kW peak power. It subsided over time, but certainly was not limited to 60kW peak power.

 

[yobigd20]

2013 P85 charged at hamilton NJ SC and got 100kW at 36% SOC so doesn't seem like I'm rated limited here. Anyone get higher than 100kW anywhere or is that the new rate limit? lol

 

[yobigd20]

You know, to add fuel to the fire, the supercharger page was just updated (per change detection) to add the words "during long distance travel" to the first paragraph description.