My car won't charge faster than 60kW

[Zarwin]

You know, to add fuel to the fire, the supercharger page was just updated (per change detection) to add the words "during long distance travel" to the first paragraph description.

And removed the wording "where home charging is difficult"

http://www.changedetection.com/log/teslamotors/supercharger_log.html


EDIT

Specifically the following highlighted text was added:

Superchargers are free connectors that charge Model S in minutes instead of hours. Stations are strategically placed to minimize stops during long distance travel and are conveniently located near restaurants, shopping centers, and WiFi hot spots. Each station contains multiple Superchargers to help you get back on the road quickly.

And the following highlighted text was deleted:

We strategically place Superchargers along well-traveled highways and in congested city centers where home charging is difficult. In addition to Superchargers, we have a growing network of charging partners with dedicated Tesla Wall Connectors at their properties. These are primarily destinations where you’d stay for several hours at a time, such as ski resorts, restaurants, hotels and others, so that you return to your car with ample range for your return trip.

 

[yobigd20]

And removed the wording "where home charging is difficult"

http://www.changedetection.com/log/teslamotors/supercharger_log.html

Ouch. Perhaps this rate limiting is legitimate.

 

[Matias]

Smoking gun.

 

[MuppetOwl]

Maybe Tesla has found out that charging over 60 kW does harm the battery if charged to often? So they limit the speed on the SC charger nearby that is used frequently.

 

[Matias]

Maybe Tesla has found out that charging over 60 kW does harm the battery if charged to often? So they limit the speed on the SC charger nearby that is used frequently.

That would be even worse explanation.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

It's NOT OUR problem... it's theirs when we bought our car it was a BIG thing that:

1) Free charge for life

Yes. That is promised. BIG deal if that changes.

2) Half a charge in 20 minutes

No. Let's pull the actual quote: "Superchargers are capable of delivering up to 50% battery capacity in about 20 minutes" And they certainly are. That hasn't changed.

3) 170 miles in 30 minutes

No. No more than a Destination Charging HPWC description "providing up to 80 Amps" means that you are promised 80A current at that partner's HPWC. I have certainly had 32A destination charge sessions.
The full quote is: "Tesla Superchargers provide 170 miles of range in as little as 30 minutes" - and they do.

Very clear also on their internet site...

Yes. Very clear. But as the SpaceX landing barge advises, "Just Read..."

Other than that they expose themselves for unwanted lawsuits... not good for them, not good for the image...

I am not a lawyer, so please see one instead of taking my word for anything. I agree that it is clear, but it may not be what some are remembering. My mind works like that sometimes, too. When you want to step into legalities and contracts, you have to pull out the actual black and white verbiage. Sorry.

 

[scaesare]

And removed the wording "where home charging is difficult"

http://www.changedetection.com/log/teslamotors/supercharger_log.html


EDIT

Specifically the following highlighted text was added:

Superchargers are free connectors that charge Model S in minutes instead of hours. Stations are strategically placed to minimize stops during long distance travel and are conveniently located near restaurants, shopping centers, and WiFi hot spots. Each station contains multiple Superchargers to help you get back on the road quickly.

And the following highlighted text was deleted:

We strategically place Superchargers along well-traveled highways and in congested city centers where home charging is difficult. In addition to Superchargers, we have a growing network of charging partners with dedicated Tesla Wall Connectors at their properties. These are primarily destinations where you’d stay for several hours at a time, such as ski resorts, restaurants, hotels and others, so that you return to your car with ample range for your return trip.

Interesting... I was arguing this point HERE over a year ago...

 

[trils0n]

Nope, they removed "where home charging is difficult" because of China. They don't want anything to say or imply charging is difficult.

 

[apacheguy]

85kWh P85+ supercharged at Rancho Cucamonga today, 88 miles from home in San Diego, started charge at 49% SoC, and quickly hit 100kW peak power. It subsided over time, but certainly was not limited to 60kW peak power.

Hmm. 100 kW at 49% SOC? The only cars known to sustain that charge rate are the D models. Every other S85 P85 or P85+ crosses the 90 kW threshold slightly above 40% SOC. I'd love to see a taper curve from your car.

 

[Zarwin]

Hmm. 100 kW at 49% SOC? The only cars known to sustain that charge rate are the D models. Every other S85 P85 or P85+ crosses the 90 kW threshold slightly above 40% SOC. I'd love to see a taper curve from your car.

That would be interesting if the taper curve has changed for some. Yesterday I took a pic of the moment mine crossed the 100kw line and that was at 37% SOC, which falls perfectly in line with taper curves I've seen. Also I have a D pack.

 

[Obsoletion]

Maybe Tesla has found out that charging over 60 kW does harm the battery if charged to often? So they limit the speed on the SC charger nearby that is used frequently.

I also believe this is the case. And I am ok with it if that is what it really is. Just thinking it would have been good to announce in advance

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I also believe this is the case. And I am ok with it if that is what it really is. Just thinking it would have been good to announce in advance

Why do you believe that supercharging above 60 kW rate is harmful to your battery?

 

[davewill]

Maybe Tesla has found out that charging over 60 kW does harm the battery if charged to often? So they limit the speed on the SC charger nearby that is used frequently

I also believe this is the case. And I am ok with it if that is what it really is. Just thinking it would have been good to announce in advance

I thought of that too, but this would be a silly way to go about it. Much better to have the car keep track of how often it's been supercharged and do the limiting on it's own. Even better to tell the owner so he can decide which supercharges he really needs. For that matter this is also a stupid way to address demand charges. The way to address the demand charges is to lower the rate for everyone when and only when the total draw of all the stations would go over the targeted threshold. It's the LOCATION that has to be kept below a certain usage rate, it does no good to limit a smattering of cars.

 

[sorka]

Nope, they removed "where home charging is difficult" because of China. They don't want anything to say or imply charging is difficult.

That makes no sense. The Chinese don't see the us based english written marketing pages.

I thin this is a smoking gun pushing very strongly in the direction that the charge reduction is not a conspiracy theory but rather an actual policy change.

 

[Larry Chanin]

To reduce demand charges Tesla needs to implement smart power control, which basically caps the total power draw of all SC units, not individual unit.

Agreed, yes this would require smart power control to minimize customer inconvenience.

Tesla would have to monitor the demand during the current demand interval for the combined Supercharger Station and determine whether the current demand is approaching the previous recorded peak demand. In Japan that would be a yearly value, in the US that would be a monthly value. Then they could apply throttling to one or more individual Superchargers, or charging terminals to ensure that the current combined demand doesn't exceed the monthly or yearly peak billing demand. To minimize customer inconvenience this should be done only at busy times where the current peak demand was approaching the previous recorded peak demand. It is not necessary to impose constant throttling all the time at all charging terminals to limit demand charges at a Supercharger Station.

Again, I am not advocating any sort of throttling for whatever reason. I'm merely observing that throttling could reduce peak demand and therefore save Tesla money at the expense of customer convenience. How much customer inconvenience would depend on the method of thottling. Obviously throttling all Superchargers all the time would be a brute force method that would reduce demand charges, but as others have pointed out this would be just the opposite of what Tesla has previously been trying to do, maximize throughput through a Supercharger Station.

However, as Mike points out Tesla in their last earnings report pretty much said that Supercharger costs were de minimus in comparison to the bigger picture, so that seems to debunk the theory that Tesla is trying to save money on demand charges.

Regardless, this does return to the basic issue of Tesla communications. If it is a change in policy there is no excuse for not getting out in front of this situation by making an announcement. If it is a bug, Tesla can't be faulted for not informing us in advance, but an announcement after the fact would go a long way to shed light on the situation.

Larry

 

[gregincal]

How far does the OP live from the Folsom and Roseville Superchargers? I assume not far if they are routinely popping in to get a charge.

But they didn't get limited at the Rocklin supercharger, which is practically next door to the Roseville supercharger.

 

[omarsultan]

Still not seeing any throttling - was at Fremont yesterday, afternoon, 3 stalls empty, about 70F ambient temp, 60% SoC, home address plugged into nav with about 100 miles to go, changing started at about 75kW, which is about right - this is on an S85 with a B Series pack.

I am still chalking this up to some SW bug in the SCs or the cars, because if its a policy change, its an awfully obtuse one.

 

[strider]

However, as Mike points out Tesla in their last earnings report pretty much said that Supercharger costs were de minimus in comparison to the bigger picture, so that seems to debunk the theory that Tesla is trying to save money on demand charges.

SC charges are minor *today* but as Tesla sells more and more cars and installs more and more SCs that can/will change. It's better to implement something like this now when there are only tens of thousands of cars on the road and most MS owners are early adopters/fans and more open to helping Tesla than when there are hundreds of thousands of cars being bought by non-fanatics. This is especially true since Tesla seems to have abandoned their original plan of having solar at every SC to feed back into the grid and try to reach net-zero for the SC. They are paying for every kWh that goes through an SC.

 

[JRP3]

Except that Tesla has started installing solar panels on SC's and the fact that Tesla has talked about speeding up supercharging in the future. Slowing it down would be a drastic move in the opposite direction, and would force Tesla to build more superchargers to avoid longer lines.

 

[Larry Chanin]

SC charges are minor *today* but as Tesla sells more and more cars and installs more and more SCs that can/will change. It's better to implement something like this now when there are only tens of thousands of cars on the road and most MS owners are early adopters/fans and more open to helping Tesla than when there are hundreds of thousands of cars being bought by non-fanatics. This is especially true since Tesla seems to have abandoned their original plan of having solar at every SC to feed back into the grid and try to reach net-zero for the SC. They are paying for every kWh that goes through an SC.

Except that Tesla has started installing solar panels on SC's and the fact that Tesla has talked about speeding up supercharging in the future. Slowing it down would be a drastic move in the opposite direction, and would force Tesla to build more superchargers to avoid longer lines.

From a customer perspective the prefered manner to reduce demand charges is to install battery storage with solar panels. This could cut demand charges without inconveniencing Tesla owners. Obviously, this is a more expensive approach. I agree with JRP and the current plan to quickly install Supercharger and then retrofit them with battery storage and solar panels.

Clipping demand through the use of battery storage makes sense to me. Throttling charging rate does not because it is counter to the purpose of a Supercharger Station.

Larry