My car won't charge faster than 60kW

[Larry Chanin]

The demand savings doesn't make sense as the demand charge is determined by the maximum 15 min load over the entire month. So only throttling some wouldn't change that

Demand charges vary with utility. Mine measures demand over a 30 minute period.

In either case though throttling would limit demand charges. In one case the car could be pulling about 120 kW, in the other it is limited to just 60 kW. The demand is additive, if there are multiple cars charging at the same time overlapping the measuring interval.

Utilities measure the average demand over the demand interval. If a Model S arrives at a Supercharger with a very low state of charge there may be virtually no tappering of the charge rate during the demand measurement interval. Normally that could be at close to 120 kW and it could register very close to the full 120kW demand particularly in the case of a short measurement interval like 15 minutes. On the other hand if that same car were throttled to 60 kW you can see that Tesla would save about 60kW of demand charges if that happend to be the peak for the month.

Larry

 

[hiroshiy]

Demand charges are different from utility to utility, country to country. For example in Japan we have 30 minutes interval system but that effects for ONE YEAR. So if a SC station becomes full just once, you get highest demand charges and the rate won't change for a year. Throttling isn't effective at all in this case.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Demand charges are different from utility to utility, country to country. For example in Japan we have 30 minutes interval system but that effects for ONE YEAR. So if a SC station becomes full just once, you get highest demand charges and the rate won't change for a year. Throttling isn't effective at all in this case.

If throttling were in effect during that particular peak demand period for the year then it would have had a positive effect by lowering the peak demand.

To be clear, I'm not advocating that Tesla should implement such a program. I am merely pointing out that it can save them money at the expense of customer convenience.

Larry

 

[Electroman]

for those that have said -1 and -infinity on my suggestion that locals should be charged for SC access, because it violates the contract, you have only two options (speculating):

- Insist that Tesla honor the contract of free charging for life, but be prepared to stay longer at the local SCs with slower charging, ironically sipping more coffee and spending more than what you would have paid on a reasonable per kWh rate.

- or, accept a new contract that states that you will charged for local SC access with no charging rate cap.

Tesla might provide these two options for new customers (or even to existing customers), either to take the "free" contract with the charging rate cap, or a contract that will cost you some money on the local SCs (perhaps not more than what it would have cost you at your house if you had a garage) but with no restrictions.

Face it, we all knew the free for life is sure to hit a wall sometime soon.

 

[apacheguy]

I'm not sure I agree. The SpC funds are directly proportional to sales of new cars. Thus, as long as everyone is contributing to the network, it should not "hit a wall sometime soon" as Tesla will be able to continually expand their resources.

 

[Klaus]

Well, I experienced throttling at superchargers 100 miles and 200 miles from the home location in the Nav system!! Your theory, not correct

I'm ok having the theory rejected. But until you try it with your home location deleted you haven't disproven it either :wink:

 

[ecarfan]

After reading though this entire thread I am not convinced that any deliberate "throttling" by Tesla is taking place. Maybe, maybe not. There could be other explanations. We need more data.

 

[docrice]

My my, this thread got lengthy quite quickly. I'll add yet another data point:

Just got back from the Fremont SC again and at 45% SoC I was at 75 kW on stall 2B, so things seem back to normal. Roughly half the stalls occupied, ambient temp around 64 F. Maybe Tesla's been testing the waters randomly on various stalls or based on specific trigger conditions.

Something sketchy on the Tesla's official forum - this topic of potential throttling came up (http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/superchargers-limited-heavy-users-60-kw) but it looks like the thread's been deleted. I haven't checked if it was moved, but it feels suspect.

 

[dirkhh]

Random data point. 90 miles from home at Centralia, a SC that I as a person have been to many times (maybe 20 times in the last year and a half), but this was the first visit for my new car... 120kW.

 

[LandShark]

I charged at Fremont yesterday (Sunday) at 15% SoC and got 89 KW. I have an A battery. The previous three Sundays at the same time in the morning I was limited to 58 KW. Hopefully Tesla has concluded this diabolical experiment!

 

[AmpedRealtor]

My current working theory is that the car will throttle to 60 kW if you have a destination set in your nav and you have enough charge to reach that destination. That would explain the apparent random throttling.

The solution, then, would be to set no destination in your nav or an alternate destination that is really far away. Problem solved.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi again PunchIT

I have new data and theory here. I charged on the nearest SC as I mentioned on my previously post. I tested out a theory. On the navi I deleted my home adresse. I got 114kw when I charged at the nearest SC where I got the 60kw limitation for past 3 weeks. I'm not sure this is just a coincidence or not. I'll set my home adresse back on navi and test it again. My FW is 6.1(2.2.173). I got 60kw limitation after I got the latest FW.

My home address is in my car's navigation under Favorites. I'm 2 miles from the Buckeye Supercharger. I received 93 kW at 42% SOC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm inclined to follow Walter's general line of reasoning. IF Tesla is responsible for this a simple explanation is that they are trying to save money on demand charges. Therefore, in this scenario when they apply charging rate limitations it would have no relationship to where you live or how often you charge, but rather it would depend on the real-time activity at the particular Supercharger. When a Supercharger is busy it would be more likely to be throttled than when it is not busy. People who live near Superchargers are more likely to charge frequently at Superchargers. People who charge frequently are more likely to occasionally run into a situation where demand charge throttling is being applied.

That's my current theory. :wink:

Larry

And if that's the case, Tesla needs to immediately change their Supercharger web page because it is blatantly false advertising. I was promised free supercharging for life, and that I can charge to 170 miles in 30 minutes. I don't care about Tesla's demand charges - those are Tesla's problem and should have been considered before making commitments to owners and claims on their web site.

No, this can't be it.

- - - Updated - - -

for those that have said -1 and -infinity on my suggestion that locals should be charged for SC access, because it violates the contract, you have only two options (speculating):

- Insist that Tesla honor the contract of free charging for life, but be prepared to stay longer at the local SCs with slower charging, ironically sipping more coffee and spending more than what you would have paid on a reasonable per kWh rate.

- or, accept a new contract that states that you will charged for local SC access with no charging rate cap.

Tesla might provide these two options for new customers (or even to existing customers), either to take the "free" contract with the charging rate cap, or a contract that will cost you some money on the local SCs (perhaps not more than what it would have cost you at your house if you had a garage) but with no restrictions.

Face it, we all knew the free for life is sure to hit a wall sometime soon.

Why would you penalize Model S owners who live in apartments and condominiums and who may not be allowed to set up a charger at their home by the management? They have as much right to use as any other owner. Treating apartment and condo dwellers as you describe is terrible policy. What do you think customers in China will think when word of this gets out, do you think that will make it easier or more difficult for Tesla in that market? Sorry, but this idea is a non-starter.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not sure I agree. The SpC funds are directly proportional to sales of new cars. Thus, as long as everyone is contributing to the network, it should not "hit a wall sometime soon" as Tesla will be able to continually expand their resources.

Unless Tesla needs to put money towards something else. Tesla has already stated in their latest 10K that Supercharger expansion may not meet expectations due to other financial obligations. So don't think that just because owners are paying for supercharger access that money is not going to be diverted towards other needs as Tesla deems necessary.

 

[SarahsDad]

Ok, now they're really playing with us.

Went back to the Charlotte SC today (about 30 miles away) where I was limited to <60kW last week (see post #82 My car won't charge faster than 60kW - Page 9).

Same stall, no one else charging.
This time got 80kW at an even higher SOC - clearly no throttling. Didn't have any destination in the Nav (and didn't the first time either).

Not seeing a trend here.

 

[tga]

Why would you penalize Model S owners who live in apartments and condominiums and who may not be allowed to set up a charger at their home by the management? They have as much right to use as any other owner. Treating apartment and condo dwellers as you describe is terrible policy. What do you think customers in China will think when word of this gets out, do you think that will make it easier or more difficult for Tesla in that market? Sorry, but this idea is a non-starter.

I'm sure someone will blow a gasket over this, but...

Maybe, just maybe, US buyers who can't charge at home or work shouldn't buy a Tesla (or any other electric car, for that matter)? I can't imaging buying an electric car without control over my own charging situation.

China (and London) are different altogether. Superchargers are being built there for the express purpose of supporting local residents. That's not happening here (yet).

Once the intercity supercharger network is (mostly) done, we can worry about the intracity network to support apartment and condo dwellers. Clearly Tesla is focusing on intercity first.

 

[sorka]

Maybe Tesla was trying something to gauge response or maybe there was a bug. It's interesting that the sibling thread in the My Tesla forum was deleted.

 

[Obsoletion]

Just got it back. See item 2

 

[bollar]

Just got it back. See item 2

That seems like more of an "I don't know what's up" than anything else.

 

[Obsoletion]

They verified and stated its operating normally. Ie. It's suppose to do that at local superchargers.

Whether or not you believe it, it's coming to your model S soon.

 

[redi]

They verified and stated its operating normally. Ie. It's suppose to do that at local superchargers

So in my case my a "local supercharger" is 100 miles down the road. Very interesting interpretation.

 

[Obsoletion]

I don't really mind IF it's for the health of the battery. If it's for cost savings, then tesla is saying our time have a pretty low value. Either way, advance notice would have been appropriate

 

[markb1]

They verified and stated its operating normally. Ie. It's suppose to do that at local superchargers.

My interpretation is that they are saying the car is acting normally. The service center is not responsible for diagnosing the superchargers. They are only responsible for diagnosing the car's side of supercharging system. It does not rule out the supercharger being broken.

Whether or not you believe it, it's coming to your model S soon.

Now that interpretation is really a stretch.