There's also weird corner cases that Tesla can't know about. On the previous software version I could trigger a forward collision warning on AP by using the windshield washer on two lane highways. It was fixed on the next software rev. I'm sure it didn't show up in their testing and was only found when they started seeing a bunch of forward collision warnings.
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Navigate on Autopilot is Useless (2018.42.3)
- Thread starter wk057
- Start date
Agreed. There is also the weather, time of day, location and speeds of other cars etc. In addition, by their very nature, the NNs are chaotic (in the mathematical sense) in that they must make decisions that result in vastly different behaviors based on very similar inputs. For example, the choice of "go/no-go" for a ULT based on the distance and approach speed of traffic.
In fact, DrD is right in that, given the EXACT same inputs, the car WILL always do the same thing. The problem is that the NN will almost never get the EXACT same inputs except when Tesla test using a simulator.
clydeiii
Member
But running on different roads in different states and cities with different laws and different populations and different notions of what is "good" driving.The difference is these cars are supposed to behave the same across the fleet since they are running the same software.Unclean restrooms at McDonalds is understandable though. lol
Even if this software worked amazingly well, there will always be people who don't like it because it drives differently than them. We're not there yet though! Maybe once they think it's good enough to deploy to everyone instead of requiring people to do the beta dance we can start really talking about driving style rather than functionality and basic safety.
clydeiii
Member
Imagine wanting a company to be better. You're the types of kids that think your parents hate you when they scold you for doing something dumb. Anyway, this thread from 2018 is about all the evidence needed for the amazing progress made. 
clydeiii
Member
If you posting on TMC were any way similar to a parent scolding a child, you'd have a really good point.Imagine wanting a company to be better. You're the types of kids that think your parents hate you when they scold you for doing something dumb. Anyway, this thread from 2018 is about all the evidence needed for the amazing progress made.
I think there is a difference to telling a child off and telling a child that they will never be any good regardless of progress they are making.Imagine wanting a company to be better. You're the types of kids that think your parents hate you when they scold you for doing something dumb. Anyway, this thread from 2018 is about all the evidence needed for the amazing progress made.
Me: "There is some really great stuff here, but let's work together on some of the things that I KNOW you can do better on."
You: "This is utter garbage, you should be ashamed at how little progress you have made. Go away and fix it NOW, I'm very disappointed in you!"
Remember, that "garbage" is $15k now. Because Tesla believes they've added that much functionality to the system since its initial release. Does anybody think it's 3x better than it was initially?? Anyway, the excuses are certainly helping.
Is anyone putting a gun to your head to buy it?. If you look at some of the options German manufacturers offer and their prices, it is insane.
Insane? It's included as part of the base package on the i4 and iX. The same is included in the base EQS, EQE, and the EQB. Kia's EV6 comes standard with Highway Driver Assist, and if you get the GT line you get HDA2 which is their "machine learning" version that has several improvements. Again, included with the vehicle. Same goes for the Ioniq 5. Ford Mach-E comes with BlueCruise on all trim levels, and I think you get the point here.
Why make this up whole cloth when anybody can go on other manufacturers' websites and configure a vehicle?
clydeiii
Member
I look forward to the dozens of youtubers posting videos of city street driving on BMW's AI stack...oh wait.
You said their prices were "insane". Your words. So we now both agree, the prices are not insane, they are included in the base offering of every EV on the market, and all of them except Tesla include automated lane change in that base package. Good. My question wasn't whether or not Tesla included basic AP, it was your claim that other manufacturers' prices were, again, "insane".
This thread is about NoAP not FSD Beta. If you'd like to start a thread about that, I'd be more than willing to tell you all about other manufacturers test systems and how they aren't endangering the public.
Have you used any of those competing systems? At least the ones I have used I would rank below AP within the same operational envelope. They also have much more constrained feature sets. The Kia system gets flustered very easily by other vehicles doing lane changes, and suffers from similar but slightly different phantom braking when going between trucks. Personally I like both systems, even with the worse situational awareness on the Kia, but if I had to pick just one it would be the Tesla system.
Around here where NoAP seems the most undermined is when there is bad map data. I've thought for years that Tesla needs to do a better job of improving the map data quickly. It's got to show up in the drive data they get back from users, since there are going to be areas with lots of disengagements. They used to do a great job of fixing this quickly on AP1, and it's been much more of a mixed bag since then. It's making the highway product worse than it has to be in a very, very fixable way.
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