NEMA 14-50 Plug Meltdown / Near Fire

[ucmndd]

You can’t use stranded wire!

lolwut

Find me some solid core #6 thhn readily available for sale.

It’s all stranded at this gauge. Solid core would be impossible to work with. This is why ferrules exist.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Yup. Use ferrules and consider setting charging Amps to 30. Wiring and plugs will thank you. The car will remember by location and you will still be able to charge your car from dead to 100% in about 10 hours.

 

[JCtx]

For the comments made, the outlet itself doesn't seem to be the issue, even the crappy Levitons. If you tighten the wires good, use blue loctite on the screws, use awg 6 wires (good for 60 amps), never remove the 14-50 adapter, and you only charge at 32A max (what the UMC allows), you should never have any issues, no?

 

[Ostrichsak]

For the comments made, the outlet itself doesn't seem to be the issue, even the crappy Levitons. If you tighten the wires good, use blue loctite on the screws, use awg 6 wires (good for 60 amps), never remove the 14-50 adapter, and you only charge at 32A max (what the UMC allows), you should never have any issues, no?

Loctite isn't necessary. Secure connections are ALWAYS necessary regardless of how much you spend on the outlet.

 

[KenC]

So, how do the ferrules help? Prevent stray strands, or does it provide a better connection. And, is this the kind of ferrule you're referring to?
https://www.grainger.com/category/electrical/electrical-supplies/wire-connectors/ferrules?attrs=Wire+Range|6+AWG&filters=attrs

And of course, you need a crimper.

 

[ucmndd]

So, how do the ferrules help? Prevent stray strands

Yes

or does it provide a better connection

Yes

And, is this the kind of ferrule you're referring to?
https://www.grainger.com/category/electrical/electrical-supplies/wire-connectors/ferrules?attrs=Wire+Range|6+AWG&filters=attrs

Not quite, more like this:
https://www.amazon.com/240PCS-Copper-Crimp-Fitting-Ferrules/dp/B07X5JV6CL

And of course, you need a crimper.

Yes

 

[MN-MS100D]

Hmm. Don't use those amazon ferrules. Graingers has proper listed lug kits, and so does any electrical distributor. Amazon's does not appear to have a listing, so you don't want to trust your car and house to (probably) cheap junk.

I'm probably wrong, but "ferrules" to me implies low voltage circuits. Lugs are for line voltage applications.

You know what, I retract everything above and would hope that ferrules not be used to terminate the field wiring to the receptacle. The stranded wire and receptacle have both been designed to work together. Why introduce another connection? Save the ferrules for terminating fine standed wire to meet NEC.

 

[Silver Rocket]

You can’t use stranded wire!

I tried and it burned also. Had sold core put in and no problem now!

 

[nwdiver]

I tried and it burned also. Had sold core put in and no problem now!

.... where did you find solid #6 insulated wire?

 

[Feathermerchan]

At the troll store?

 

[nwdiver]

At the troll store?

.... hope he doesn't check the lines feeding power to his house....

 

[Feathermerchan]

I'd venture to guess that no lines from his house back to the generator are solid.
And other high current devices like welders and jumper cables have stranded wiring.

 

[Vespa]

You guys are funny, those ferrules are intended to decorate speaker wires! And are amateur-installed ferrules even legal for AWG6 screw terminals? I sure hope not! That's crazy.

Anyway, don't stress this. Remember, the other end of that wiring is connected to a cheap $10 breaker with the same crappy screw terminals as the cheapest Leviton outlet anyway. It's fine. Make sure it's installed correctly and don't push a dry Christmas tree up against it. That's all you have to do.

That said, being super-skittish and making your electrician use this obscure outlet you found on the internet will at least get his attention, and with that you might get a more solid installation than most.

 

[ucmndd]

I apologize if I’m using the incorrect term or providing illustrative links to incorrect products. The Gen 2 Wall Connector installation manual recommends using “ferrules” and has screw terminals not unlike the 14-50 outlets we’re all talking about here. I do note that language is gone from the Gen 3 manual. Perhaps this is more appropriate advice for smaller wire with fine strands as @MN-MS100D suggests.

 

[Silver Rocket]

.... where did you find solid #6 insulated wire?

Hired electrician. He took care of everything including running solid core wire from panel to garage to new outlet for $450

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm probably wrong, but "ferrules" to me implies low voltage circuits. Lugs are for line voltage applications.

You know what, I retract everything above and would hope that ferrules not be used to terminate the field wiring to the receptacle. The stranded wire and receptacle have both been designed to work together. Why introduce another connection? Save the ferrules for terminating fine standed wire to meet NEC.

You're talking about this like lugs and ferrules are two totally opposite things, and it should be only one or the other, but that's not right. They accomplish different functions, but they are very commonly used together.

Ferrules are to gather together and hold all of the strands of stranded wire at the end of a cut so it can be attached solidly, without some of the strands getting squashed out the sides and not really being connected or carrying any current, thereby losing some of the conductivity of your wire.

And then the lug is the screw pressing part to clamp onto the wire for the electrical connection.

They work very well together to crimp a ferrule onto the end, and then you put that ferruled part into the lug to clamp it down to make sure the lug is making a more solid connection to all of the strands.

 

[nwdiver]

Hired electrician. He took care of everything including running solid core wire from panel to garage to new outlet for $450

Can you post a photo? I co-own an electric services company. Our electricians tell me insulated solid copper wire larger than #8 doesn't exist... I'd love to prove them wrong.

 

[Vespa]

Yeah, pretty sure there's no such thing as solid 6 AWG. I'd expect that to be somewhat fragile and dangerous.

Interesting that the 80A Gen 2 Wall Connector advises ferrules, they surely must be legal then, at least for this appliance, but I'd still question the legality of using them on a breaker or outlet that's designed for bare wire. I thought I read something in the NEC code stating that ferrules were only legal if factory-installed but maybe that only applies to smaller wires that are more subject to amateur installations.

The 200A stranded mains don't have ferrules in any breaker panel I've seen, nor do the common 50A-100A circuits for subpanels, A/C, Jacuzzi, Dryer, Stove, etc. but perhaps the difference with all of those things is that you can hold the loose breaker/outlet in one hand while inserting the wire with the other. The HPWC requires you to fish the wire blindly into a dark hole and just hope it's in right. Maybe that's why they suggest ferrules?

 

[nwdiver]

Yeah, pretty sure there's no such thing as solid 6 AWG.

There is; It's just used as a ground and not insulated.

 

[Vespa]

Yeah, bare solid #6 is not so bad, it's the insulation that leads to trouble because you can't see any cracks in the copper. For a ground wire it's not a big deal because you can inspect it and it's not likely to carry current for a long enough time to overheat anyway.

I think bare solid #6 is not used inside houses though, I've only ever seen it outside staking the service panel to the earth.