TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

New 85D owner, long distance travel question

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by tnt1971, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. tnt1971

    tnt1971 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    United States
    I have an 85D on order with delivery in March. The car will meet more than 95% of my driving needs. My question is about 2 road trips I have over the next year.

    I travel up to Ithaca, NY from western Long Island. Door to door the trip is 240 miles. Along the route there are two superchargers, one in Tannersville, PA and one in Binghamton, NY. My fear, regarding the trip, is that the Binghamton SC is 40 miles from my destination, and then the car will sit for 8 days. Then I have to do the trip in reverse. There is a charger at my destination, but there is a strict 3 hour charging limit and I believe it is only a 30 Amp charger. Also, I am in a very intense program and running out to put my car on and off the charger in 3 hour increments will be a nuisance. One of the road trips will be in July, and the next in January, when Ithaca will probably average about 10 degrees Fahrenheit over the week.

    My question is if I will be able to SC up to enough miles to get to the destination and back with the 8 days of vampire loss? I may be able to put the car on the destination charger for 1 or 2 three hour sessions. I will also ask the facility beforehand if I can get a special dispensation from the 3 hour limit for one night, which would solve my problem. I have another car, a Prius, that would be a far distant second preference for a road trip like this.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Btrflyl8e

    Btrflyl8e Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,275
    Location:
    Seminole, Florida, United States
    The vampire loss over 8 days shouldn't be more than could be replaced in one 3 hour session, although I live in FL so have no real world experience with super cold temps, that could be more.

    But, you say the SC is only 40 miles from your destination, so if you charge up to max on your way, you really shouldn't need to worry as you should have more than enough to cover the 80 miles plus any vampire loss. The destination charge would just be "insurance".
     
  3. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Yep, shouldn't be a problem.
    8 days should only loose about 25-50 miles.
    On your last day you could top of with a three hour charge if needed, although most likely that even won't be needed.

    For the January trip, you may want to use the destination charger a couple of times. Just monitor the range, and if it drops quickly just top it off. I doubt you will need to,but you have the safety net which is nice.
     
  4. brec

    brec Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Six rated miles of daily loss to the vampire is a pretty conservative (high) rule of thumb. And de-rating rated miles of road trip driving by 1/3 is another; e.g., 270 rated is 180 actual. So en route to the destination you'd want to depart the Binghamton Supercharger with (40+40)x(3/2) + (8x6) = 168 rated miles plus some comfort buffer. If that buffer is 20% SoC, then 168/270 + 20 = 82%, or 222 rated miles.

    And then just forget about charging at the destination.
     
  5. imclurcan

    imclurcan Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    UK
    I have recently come back from a skiing trip in Italy, which was a round trip of over 1700 miles in my P85D and that put a lot of my range anxiety issues to bed! With a SC only 40 miles away you won't have any issues if you put 80%+ charge on. That should give you around 200 miles and if your car is standing for a week you should lose less than 25 miles of that even in cold weather. If you worried then just take the charge up to 90% and bank the extra 20 miles!

    The MS is a fabulous road trip car. The only caution is to add the charge time fully into your planning. A small price to pay for the most relaxing long drive I have ever had!



    Iain
     
  6. tnt1971

    tnt1971 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks for all the info. Brec, are you saying that I will only get 180 miles on a road trip? I was hoping that topping off at 270 before I left would get me to Binghampton, almost exactly 200 miles, especially in July.
     
  7. LoL Rick

    LoL Rick Like Buttah

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    417
    Location:
    Land O Lakes, FL
    You post implies that you will not be driving the car while in Ithaca. If that is the case, then do not discount 120V charging. With the car sitting for several days, literally any place you can plug in will provide plenty of range to get back.
     
  8. tnt1971

    tnt1971 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    United States
    When I was up there this past January, I put maybe 10 miles on my car during the week and only because I was getting a bit stir crazy. It might be 20 in July, but no more than that. I think it would be tough to find even a 110 outlet in the garages or lots they have there. Last time I valeted my Prius, but I have the option not to and just leave it in the parking garage, which also has the charger with the 3 hour limit that is ridiculous. I drove past it 3 or 4 times last July and there was never anyone else using it, particularly on the weekend.
     
  9. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,866
    Location:
    NoVa
    Nothing to worry about, if you're really concerned, just do a range charge at the SpC (it'll take a while). This'll give you 270RM for your week up there.
    The trip from the SpC to Ithica is 40 miles each way, let's say it's cold and you're speeding and you use 2RM for every real mile, so you used 80RM, now you're left with 190RM.
    You lose 50RM over 8 days in Ithica, now you're down to 140RM.
    While in Ithica, you drive around for 20 miles, cold start, let's say 2.5RM for every real mile, so you used 50RM, now you're down to 90RM
    The trip from the SpC to Ithica is 40 miles each way, let's say it's cold and you're speeding and you use 2RM for every real mile, so you used 80RM, now you're left with 10RM back at the SpC.

    And those numbers are significantly higher than what you would expect to use, and doesn't take into account any charging at your destination.
     
  10. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    5,062
    Location:
    Colorado
    #10 Cottonwood, Feb 19, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
    This one is pretty easy and not a concern. Here is how I would do the trip, but there are many variations that would also work well.

    1. Do an 80% charge is Binghamton. That should give you 80% of 270 or 216 rated miles.
    2. Drive to Ithaca. A very conservative estimate is 1.5 rated miles per actual mile. 1.5*40 is 60 rated miles; 216 minus 60 is 156 in the battery when you arrive and park.
    3. 6 rated miles a day to vampire is very conservative (actual will probably be lower in a new Model S). 156 minus 8*6 is 108 rated miles in the battery when you head back to Binghamton.
    4. Use the conservative 60 rated miles for 40 actual miles again; that leaves 108 minus 60 or 48 rated miles left on arrival at Binghamton.
    5. Supercharge in Binghamton enough to get to the next Supercharger with a comfort margin.
    All of this uses very conservative estimates. In reality, it's probably 1.25 rated miles per actual mile at most, and a conservative 4 rated mile per day vampire. That give you 36 more rated miles or 84 rated miles when you get back to Binghamton.

    On top of that use the App to check your battery state a day or so before departure. If you are not at a comfort level, put the car on the 30-Amp J1772 for 3 hours. That should add 60 rated miles. Another options is to bring a 50 or 100 foot 12 or 14 gauge and park close enough to a 120 Volt outlet. That should give you 50-75 rated miles a day. Use either of these methods to do more local driving in Ithaca.

    Bottom line: This trip can be done easily using Superchargers and without any painfully long range chargers.
     
  11. Vince Cobelo

    Vince Cobelo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    Palmetto, FL
    #11 Vince Cobelo, Feb 19, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
    I haven't read the full text off all of this but there is a simple alternative.

    Your destination has a charger with a 3 hour time limit but I'd bet they also have a 110v standard plug and for that no time restriction. Plug that in and forget it. Its slow of course but who cares? That is what my wife and I do when we go to any hotel. Just have the valet plug it in (we carry a 25' extension coiled up in the same bag as the connector) and they are happy to do it. More than overcomes vampire loss and you will be good to go.

    It is sorta like airport parking garages. Makes no sense to put chargers in and we have time limits when for the same price you could line the perimeter of a parking garage level with 110v outlets. Let EVs plug in with no time limits for days at a time and when you return from a multi day trip you have a full charge. People forget the value of being able to use 110v when the car is just gonna sit.
     
  12. Brass Guy

    Brass Guy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Messages:
    505
    Location:
    Stoughton, MA
    Good replies above.
    If you're worried about "vampire" losses, make sure that Energy Saving mode is on, in the Displays menu. If it is off, the car will not hibernate. You can save a few more miles by turning off "always connected" in the same menu.
    Leave the car alone if you're not driving it. (Don't poke a sleeping Tesla.) When you unlock it or open a door, the car wakes up from hibernation. That includes walking past it with the key in your pocket.
    Check on it a day before your return trip and put it on the charger for 3 hours if needed. You probably won't need it.

    If you're driving in Spring, Summer or Fall, you will not have a problem.
    If the car has "cold soaked" below 40F while parked that long, your initial energy use will be extremely high and you won't have any regeneration. This can be avoided by using your 3 hour charge time just before departure. (Charging heats the battery.)
    If you are unable to charge a cold soaked car and the 1st leg of your return trip is questionable, turn on range mode (in the Driving menu) which will turn off (or reduce, not sure) battery heating and reduce climate control performance, but will avoid that initial high usage and save your trip to the 1st SC.

    Definitely take the Model S on this trip.
     
  13. AgentWimplo

    AgentWimplo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Also if you happen to get or borrow a Chademo adapter there is a place in Ithaca that you could use that to boost up before you head back to Binghamton. Diane's Auto has Chademo and is listed on GreenLots.
     
  14. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Messages:
    880
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    Max, you accidentally made it sound worse in your calculation. It looks like you subtracted the round trip from the Supercharger to Ithaca and back twice.
     
  15. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,866
    Location:
    NoVa
    I was using an unrealistically poor efficiency, 2 rated miles for each real mile driven (let's assume it's 0F and he's doing 90mph into a 20mph headwind traveling uphill both ways on his trip ;)). That would mean he's using 600wh/mi on the trip. So the 40 mile trip would use 80 rated miles.

    So basically even in worst case conditions, he should make it with a range charge. In realistic conditions, nothing to worry about. Cottonwood used more realistic numbers.

    Unless I made a mistake somewhere else?
     
  16. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mountains, USA
    As all have said. You will be fine. Just do a full charge in Binghamton, which will put you at ease. You won't need to charge at your destination. But you will know that you can if it will help to alleviate range anxiety. It took me about a year to fully get past it. It takes time to translate what a tank of gas means compared to a "tank of charge". 40 mi is a big nothing.
     
  17. jdo

    jdo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    165
    Location:
    Silver Spring, MD, USA
    You've probably gotten way too many answers by now, but let me give you one more that should reassure you.

    Worst-case scenario: say you're at your destination with very little charge left. If all you do is one 3-hr charge at the 30A before you leave, you should have enough to get to the SC 40 miles away.

    And as others have said, a 110v will get you ~3-4 miles per hour of charge.
     
  18. brec

    brec Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    No, I'm saying that it's a rule of thumb that reducing rated range by 1/3 provides a reasonably safe estimate that would allow you to hop in the car and go in the absence of careful planning. For me, careful planning includes use of EVTripPlanner.com and a reasonable buffer for contingencies. In EVTripPlanner I note the predicted kWh usage and, if I'm starting with a range charge (100%), compare the prediction with an estimate of 74 kWh usable capacity in my 85D.

    I actually first encountered the 1/3 de-rating rule of thumb in the original post of the sticky thread in this sub-forum, How to plan a road trip - how long will it take?
     
  19. bridaus

    bridaus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    United States
    #19 bridaus, Feb 20, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
    My simple answer: Fill up when you are low. Like an ICE car. This is being over-thought. You have lots of options.

    After driving electric cars for over three years I have found charging planning equal to gas planning. Mostly easier because of the gas station I have at home!

    Oh, BTW, over-thinking isn't necessarily bad as long as it's not over-stressing. :)
     
  20. tnt1971

    tnt1971 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    United States
    Thank you for all your helpful responses. I will probably go and charge it several nights for the 3 hour limit on the charger. It will be a nuisance, but worth it for the drive.

    I was a bit surprised at the low range estimates. I assumed that I would get close to the full range of the car when driving conservatively in moderate temperatures and below 65MPH. I am reading your responses that this is not the case. I actually beat the EPA mileage on my Prius, getting 55MPG+ in over 60 degree temperatures. I guess I will find out soon enough.
     

Share This Page