New Buyers Beware / Negative repair process

[Yodeller]

It seems to me that you're being much worse than Jeff, especially by implying those who disagree with you on this issue are part of a "religious cult". Also, your ad hominem attacks do nothing to move the conversation forward. People have different views on this issue and when we challenge them respectfully, rather than personally, we actually bolster our position, rather than undermine it.

I don't know Jeff, and I didn't call him unreasonable. I called his response to my honest advice to a close friend about a decision making factor that was important to him unreasonable. You should check what ad hominem means, and then read the things he said about my worthiness as a Tesla owner.

Folks, you're just going to have to get used to it; when Tesla has shortcomings, they will be mentioned and occasionally, someone will make a recommendation that's counter to your expectations. Reacting as if someone is supposed to have absolute unquestioning belief and loyalty is moving in the direction of something really unhealthy. Maybe I could somewhat understand if this was a religion, but it's not. It's a car, objectively comparable to other cars, and frequently compared with feelings of superiority.

Let's also set the record straight, I don't for a moment care if you disagree with me, that's your right and Jeff's too. But for him to say that I shouldn't be on this Tesla owners' forum because I have my friend honest advice won't go unchallenged. Who does he think he is? Supreme Arbiter of bona fides? It's more valuable than ever for Tesla to understand what chases potential customers away. Bill Gates, the most financially successful founder in three generations once said, "Our most critical customers are our greatest source of learning." I think Elon Musk knows that, and his most adoring fans owe that to him some of the time.

 

[mmccord]

The last thing i want to do is recommend someone purchase a MS and have it not work out for them, so i am clear when people ask my opinion. An example: I work for a medical practice, and one of the doctors just does home visits. He drives a lot of miles, and he mentioned he might want to buy a Tesla. After discussing his daily driving, i couldn't recommend it. The area we are located does not have any local DC charging, supercharger or otherwise, and his daily driving is too unpredictable. He would occasionally need to get a quick charge and he can't just say "sorry, have to go home for a few hours".

Someday the infrastructure will be here for that type of driver, but it's not here yet.

 

[jeffro01]

I don't know Jeff, and I didn't call him unreasonable. I called his response to my honest advice to a close friend about a decision making factor that was important to him unreasonable. You should check what ad hominem means, and then read the things he said about my worthiness as a Tesla owner.

Folks, you're just going to have to get used to it; when Tesla has shortcomings, they will be mentioned and occasionally, someone will make a recommendation that's counter to your expectations. Reacting as if someone is supposed to have absolute unquestioning belief and loyalty is moving in the direction of something really unhealthy. Maybe I could somewhat understand if this was a religion, but it's not. It's a car, objectively comparable to other cars, and frequently compared with feelings of superiority.

Let's also set the record straight, I don't for a moment care if you disagree with me, that's your right and Jeff's too. But for him to say that I shouldn't be on this Tesla owners' forum because I have my friend honest advice won't go unchallenged. Who does he think he is? Supreme Arbiter of bona fides? It's more valuable than ever for Tesla to understand what chases potential customers away. Bill Gates, the most financially successful founder in three generations once said, "Our most critical customers are our greatest source of learning." I think Elon Musk knows that, and his most adoring fans owe that to him some of the time.

You clearly don't get it. Your advice isn't honest, if your advice was honest you'd clearly see that Tesla isn't just a car company. You're holding them to a standard that's grossly unfair given the short amount of time they've been in business and the headwinds they face to this day. Tesla didn't chase a potential customer away, you did. Own up to it and quit hiding behind some BS standard you invented on your own. What's worse is you chased a potential customer away for ridiculous reasons.

Jeff

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The last thing i want to do is recommend someone purchase a MS and have it not work out for them, so i am clear when people ask my opinion. An example: I work for a medical practice, and one of the doctors just does home visits. He drives a lot of miles, and he mentioned he might want to buy a Tesla. After discussing his daily driving, i couldn't recommend it. The area we are located does not have any local DC charging, supercharger or otherwise, and his daily driving is too unpredictable. He would occasionally need to get a quick charge and he can't just say "sorry, have to go home for a few hours".

Someday the infrastructure will be here for that type of driver, but it's not here yet.

Absolutely makes perfect sense, I think that's very valid. This car doesn't fit everyone, in every situation, at least not YET...

Jeff

 

[AndY1]

You clearly don't get it. Your advice isn't honest, if your advice was honest you'd clearly see that Tesla isn't just a car company. You're holding them to a standard that's grossly unfair given the short amount of time they've been in business and the headwinds they face to this day. Tesla didn't chase a potential customer away, you did. Own up to it and quit hiding behind some BS standard you invented on your own. What's worse is you chased a potential customer away for ridiculous reasons.

Tesla is a car company.

And Tesla chased customers away, including me and many others, who were considering getting a Model S, not honest forum members, who share their experience with others, including waiting times of 3-4 months in Europe to get their car serviced for non-critical repairs.

Just take a look at the Bjorn's Model S. On average, he had his Model S serviced every month. Two or three drive-train failures?

My 2012 Ampera has been rock solid of 3.5 years (100.000km), while I saw pictures and reports of many Model S owners in my country with bricked cars on the side of the road.
I never needed to leave my Ampera at the dealer for more than 2 days (repainted front bumper because someone scraped it at the parking place) and spare parts are available within a week.

Owning a Model S is just to risky.

 

[justah]

You clearly don't get it. Your advice isn't honest, if your advice was honest you'd clearly see that Tesla isn't just a car company. You're holding them to a standard that's grossly unfair given the short amount of time they've been in business and the headwinds they face to this day. Tesla didn't chase a potential customer away, you did. Own up to it and quit hiding behind some BS standard you invented on your own. What's worse is you chased a potential customer away for ridiculous reasons.

Jeff

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Absolutely makes perfect sense, I think that's very valid. This car doesn't fit everyone, in every situation, at least not YET...

Jeff

Isn't just a car company? They are a car-company with some activity's on the side, no matter what you think or like them to be, they are...

Tesla Motors, Inc. is an American automotive and energy storage company that designs, manufactures, and sells luxury electric cars, electric vehicle powertrain components, and battery products. Tesla Motors is a public company that trades on the NASDAQ stock exchange under the symbol TSLA.

True. The philosophy of the company doesn't align 1:1 with the established brands but that doesn't mean they can or should get a hall pass for lack of service-, logistics- or expectation-management. The argument that they are not in business for a long time is -pardon my french- pathetic. Any company that has a revenue of 3.198 billion USD and was founded in 2003 shouldn't have to play the baby-card but live up to the standards they say to uphold. They present themselves with the Model S as competitors for a Mercedes S500 for example. Letting customers wait for 2 or 3 months for a new bumper is a 100% no-go at any brand let alone Mercedes. Not at Tesla. If a brand announces the production and delivery of a new model they live up to it or mis it by two to three months, not 6+ months. Not at Tesla.
This doesn't make them a "special" car-company it makes them a immature car-company and that would be OK if they wouldn't talk and present themselves as a grown-up's, which they do. And I think it is OK to point that out to future buyers, the Tesla marketing is NOT honest about a lot of things and it should be..If it was it wouldn't be a topic at all...Don't play with the 'big' boys and expect special rules or treatment, just live up to promises and make fair one's.


FYI,
I did buy one, and I am awaiting its delivery, and with joy. That doesn't make me blind for things that don't add up or make me defend a policy or strategy that is just not up to the standard that Tesla says to uphold. I made the decision to get one anyway, if someone asks me about the points mentioned, they will get a honest answer.

Reading the lasts posts shows me the passion that some have, which is a accomplishment of the brand, but it also shows me that this passion clouds the judgement of some on fair points made by others.

 

[GasKilla]

The last thing i want to do is recommend someone purchase a MS and have it not work out for them, so i am clear when people ask my opinion. An example: I work for a medical practice, and one of the doctors just does home visits. He drives a lot of miles, and he mentioned he might want to buy a Tesla. After discussing his daily driving, i couldn't recommend it. The area we are located does not have any local DC charging, supercharger or otherwise, and his daily driving is too unpredictable. He would occasionally need to get a quick charge and he can't just say "sorry, have to go home for a few hours".

Someday the infrastructure will be here for that type of driver, but it's not here yet.

Does your friend drive more than 100 miles one way for a house call? If he drives an ICE sounds like he would have to fill up gas every other day for a Tesla to be unreasonable for his requirements. Most people over estimate the amount of miles they drive. Have him set a trip for each day he drives for a week or month, and if his daily average is near 200 miles I'd say no Tesla, less than that and he would benefit from duel chargers and a high powered wall connecter supplied by a 100 amp breaker.

 

[Canuck]

I saw pictures and reports of many Model S owners in my country with bricked cars on the side of the road.

Really, all these Model S's sold in Slovania and "many" are bricked on the side of the road? Or is it owners from other countries having them bricked there?


Countries of which Model S sales are published:

Country	2013	2014	2015
Norway	1.983	4.040	4.039
Denmark	112	460	2.736
Netherlands	1.195	1.469	1.891
Germany	204	814	1.582
Switzerland	213	496	1.556
Sweden	5	265	996
Belgium	148	521	820
France	37	328	708
Austria	50	136	492
Finland	2	94	146
Italy	8	52	134
Slovenia	3	n/a	8
Spain	1	15	10

I call BS on such nonsense.

I've had my car two years with one stuck door handle fixed in my office parking lot while I worked. Oh, and condensation in a tail light.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Tesla is not a religious cult and it's not for everyone. Being honest with your friend about its real shortcomings is just that, being honest.

I noticed that your Location is "Cupertino, CA", and I was reminded of a fruit company that has been accused in the past of being a cult lead by a guy who was named Steve .

On a more serious note, it does concern me that there seems to be an almost religious following for Tesla, to the point where legitimate criticism of the company is often slammed and people giving genuine feedback are regularly accused of being $TSLA "shorts", market manipulators, and/or shills for other companies. With Steve Jobs' death, perhaps it was inevitable that some techie people would look for a new prophet, but I would ask those who defend Tesla without question to ask if this is good for the long-term prospects of the company. I admit that I coveted Apple products as a kid, despaired at Apple's decline while in college (then celebrated its rebirth in the years after), and use an iPhone today, but the "Apple can do no wrong" crowd always irked me.

While some people here at TMC have owned expensive luxury and even exotic cars in the past, I see that a significant number of people used to drive more ordinary cars like Priuses and even econoboxes like Fits. The lengthy repair times and costs for a Model S have to be a bit of a shock. I've driven mostly Hondas, with a Subaru here and there. I've had my cars run into by other cars and a deer. Off the top of my head repairs were $3k at most and a handful of days out of commission. Having to rent a car for 2-3 months would be horrendous. I really hope that Tesla can sort out the components issue by 2017/2018, because when they start building hundreds of thousands of Model 3s, there are bound to be more accidents and a much higher need for spare parts.

 

[AndY1]

Really, all these Model S's sold in Slovania
I call BS on such nonsense.

First of all, it's Slovenia, not Slovania. It's a nation of 2 million people.

Second - I really don't care what you call it. I know, that they got stranded on the road, as I read reports and saw photos on local EV forums. As the owners got tired of them, they were getting rid of them, replacing them with more reliable cars with shorter service times.

Even my friend, who intended to order Model X (he already has Kia Soul EV), changed his mind and is thinking to covert his BMW 520 GT with a help of this guy.

 

[Yodeller]

I noticed that your Location is "Cupertino, CA", and I was reminded of a fruit company that has been accused in the past of being a cult lead by a guy who was named Steve .On a more serious note, it does concern me that there seems to be an almost religious following for Tesla, to the point where legitimate criticism of the company is often slammed and people giving genuine feedback are regularly accused of being $TSLA "shorts", market manipulators, and/or shills for other companies. With Steve Jobs' death, perhaps it was inevitable that some techie people would look for a new prophet, but I would ask those who defend Tesla without question to ask if this is good for the long-term prospects of the company. I admit that I coveted Apple products as a kid, despaired at Apple's decline while in college (then celebrated its rebirth in the years after), and use an iPhone today, but the "Apple can do no wrong" crowd always irked me. While some people here at TMC have owned expensive luxury and even exotic cars in the past, I see that a significant number of people used to drive more ordinary cars like Priuses and even econoboxes like Fits. The lengthy repair times and costs for a Model S have to be a bit of a shock. I've driven mostly Hondas, with a Subaru here and there. I've had my cars run into by other cars and a deer. Off the top of my head repairs were $3k at most and a handful of days out of commission. Having to rent a car for 2-3 months would be horrendous. I really hope that Tesla can sort out the components issue by 2017/2018, because when they start building hundreds of thousands of Model 3s, there are bound to be more accidents and a much higher need for spare parts.

Consumer Reports just came out with their new data and while Tesla is still up there, it's not in the top 3 in its category any more. That's not to say we made a mistake in buying the car, it's just a reflection of the work they have to do to get back on top.

 

[y2kcurt]

Update: Eclipsed the 3 month mark, no progress. Woohoo! Called Tesla corporate on Wednesday. They took my complaint and said they would look into, no response yet.

 

[neroden]

Yep, Tesla's "no dealership" model is great for buying cars, but for everything else it sucks-bad.

It's not the lack of dealerships which is the problem here... it's the lack of independent car repair shops. If Tesla published the manuals and made the parts available to independent repair shops (not dealers), I think these problems would be alleviated very quickly.

The independent repair shops don't like the dealerships either. Tesla + independent repair shops actually a natural alliance politically, but Tesla refuses to make that alliance.

 

[y2kcurt]

Update: Recieved a call from Repair center. They have all parts, BUT...they are waiting on a special "glue" from Tesla. They are hoping to receive it this week. Once recieved, she said it will still take another 1-2 weeks to finish repairs. That would put us close to 4 months in total.

My son made a good a point, he said,"it is faster to custom order, build, obtain financing, ship and take delivery, than it is to repair one." Crazy when you think about it.

 

[jeffro01]

Update: Recieved a call from Repair center. They have all parts, BUT...they are waiting on a special "glue" from Tesla. They are hoping to receive it this week. Once recieved, she said it will still take another 1-2 weeks to finish repairs. That would put us close to 4 months in total.

My son made a good a point, he said,"it is faster to custom order, build, obtain financing, ship and take delivery, than it is to repair one." Crazy when you think about it.

While one could certainly accuse me of being a fanboy, I will say this, if this was the fault of Tesla then I hope they do "something" to take care of you here. Not having your car for that long, making the payments (assuming you didn't pay cash), is just not ideal. I don't mean to sound like I'm accusing your repair center of anything but it just seems odd that there are a plethora of other reports of much faster turn around times. Your's seems to be the exception, and a frustrating one at that I don't doubt...

Jeff

 

[y2kcurt]

Weird, got the following message when trying to check on the Tesla at the shop via the Tesla app. Any idea what may have caused this? Would they have had to turn it off deliberately?

 

[AMPUP]

Weird, got the following message when trying to check on the Tesla at the shop via the Tesla app. Any idea what may have caused this? Would they have had to turn it off deliberately?

Fairly normal these days for both repair shops and service centers to turn off remote access. Who wants someone to execute summons or headlights, horn, rear hatch Etc in the middle of a repair.

 

[green1]

2 reasons to turn it off, one is that this is standard practice for any shop familiar with Teslas these days to stop owners from messing with them, nobody wants horns honking or doors locking/unlocking at inopportune times, and many owners in the past have done those things. The second reason is much simpler. When working on almost anything on these vehicles, step one is to disconnect all power by pulling the emergency responder loop. This stops anyone from electrocuting themselves while working on the car.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Not only that, but the first thing they did was also disconnecting my front and rear webcam cameras.

 

[green1]

Not only that, but the first thing they did was also disconnecting my front and rear webcam cameras.

or did they just pull the power and that killed everything?

 

[y2kcurt]

Update: 3 1/2 months and still no car or ETA.