New Model 3 died in midtown Manhattan during rush hour

[ATT89]

Regardless of how frustrating the situation is for OP, he is not "OWED a brand new car at the least", if by "owed" you mean legally that tesla has to do something other than attempt to fix it 2 more times before lemon law can be enacted.

What you "feel" they should do has no bearing on what they "have" to do. and hopefully OP remembers that when speaking with them. Tesla might decide to take it back prematurely to make the OP happy, but if the OP goes all "scorched earth" like you are sounding, they will likely circle the wagon and start quoting the laws on what they HAVE to do.

If I was OP, I would also be asking for a replacement car, as I would be frustrated with the current one, but I would NOT be invoking any terms like "lemon law" in my discussion with them. A lemon law claim is a specific legal thing, and once you start down that path, there willl be no more "good will" gestures etc, tesla (and any other manufacturer) will do exactly what they HAVE to do.

Like most things, its all in how one approaches them. Rolling up to tesla (or any manufacturer) with the "you have to give me a new replacement car" attitude will go no where, except for them to start saying "well, what we have to do, is fix it, in two more times.

You pay your hard earned money for something that works....you should get it.

Tesla can afford to give him what he paid for. There is absolutely no question about it.

It has nothing to do with the law. Its ethics.

Its that subject that has disappeared from the face of the plane these days.

 

[jjrandorin]

You pay your hard earned money for something that works....you should get it.

Tesla can afford to give him what he paid for. There is absolutely no question about it.

It has nothing to do with the law. Its ethics.

Its that subject that has disappeared from the face of the plane these days.

No one is disagreeing with the fact that OP should have something that works. If you were OP and started in on tesla with the same statements you are making here, you would likely find you would have to "lawyer up". Thats the point I am making. There is a difference in how you ask for something. This OP should be "asking for help" not making "demands" because OP has no basis for "demand" at this point.

 

[ATT89]

No one is disagreeing with the fact that OP should have something that works. If you were OP and started in on tesla with the same statements you are making here, you would likely find you would have to "lawyer up". Thats the point I am making. There is a difference in how you ask for something. This OP should be "asking for help" not making "demands" because OP has no basis for "demand" at this point.

So....let me get this straight.

The car costs $60K.

You give it to them.

They don't owe you a working car? Isn't that a fair trade?

You now have to beg for a working car?

 

[ATT89]

No one is disagreeing with the fact that OP should have something that works. If you were OP and started in on tesla with the same statements you are making here, you would likely find you would have to "lawyer up". Thats the point I am making. There is a difference in how you ask for something. This OP should be "asking for help" not making "demands" because OP has no basis for "demand" at this point.

Tesla makes thousands of cars per day.

They can't just give him one of those? Just one?

Its not going to tank the company.

How often is this happening that they don't want to make a practice of just giving people a new working car?

What could possibly be the downside from Tesla's perspective?

 

[TomT]

My wife had the same experience with a Chrysler convertible some years ago. And since it was near the end of the model year, she got a year newer one at no additional cost.

They simply destroyed all the paperwork from the first purchase and started over with the new Vin.

 

[ATT89]

My wife had the same experience with a Chrysler convertible some years ago. And since it was near the end of the model year, she got a year newer one at no additional cost.

Bingo. Perfect.

 

[jjrandorin]

So....let me get this straight.

The car costs $60K.

You give it to them.

They don't owe you a working car? Isn't that a fair trade?

You now have to beg for a working car?

Maybe you just want to argue to argue, because no one is saying that. What is being said is. you can NOT simply DEMAND "give me a new car because this one had a couple of issues", regardless of what the issues are. you can ASK for one, but if you want to DEMAND, that is a legal process ,and the OP has not crossed the threhhold to make that DEMAND yet, regardless of what your feelings are on the subject.

They can, and certainly should, DEMAND a working car, but they can not DEMAND a new one yet, not without invoking lemon law, which is not applicable yet due to lack of meeting the threshhold.

They certainly can CHOOSE to do whatever they want to, but thats not the statements you were making up thread. You said, specifically:

OP - turn it in if you want. - for goodness sake....they have had it longer than you have.

There Is no "turn it in" there would be a REQUEST for a new car from tesla, or, a lemon law DEMAND for one, but the threshhold has not been crossed for that demand, so for wanting a brand new car, there is only REQUEST. For a working car, there is a DEMAND, which would require tesla to FIX THE CURRENT CAR, not deliver a new one.

 

[ATT89]

Maybe you just want to argue to argue, because no one is saying that. What is being said is. you can NOT simply DEMAND "give me a new car because this one had a couple of issues", regardless of what the issues are. you can ASK for one, but if you want to DEMAND, that is a legal process ,and the OP has not crossed the threhhold to make that DEMAND yet, regardless of what your feelings are on the subject.

They can, and certainly should, DEMAND a working car, but they can not DEMAND a new one yet, not without invoking lemon law, which is not applicable yet due to lack of meeting the threshhold.

They certainly can CHOOSE to do whatever they want to, but thats not the statements you were making up thread. You said, specifically:



There Is no "turn it in" there would be a REQUEST for a new car from tesla, or, a lemon law DEMAND for one, but the threshhold has not been crossed for that demand, so for wanting a brand new car, there is only REQUEST. For a working car, there is a DEMAND, which would require tesla to FIX THE CURRENT CAR, not deliver a new one.

Ok fine everyone.

Just roll over and let Tesla do whatever they want.

Fine.



2 weeks repair? It only took them 1 day to replace my CPU from 2.5 to 3.0. How long would it take to replace the battery and motors and all of the wiring? 1 week?

Tesla...don't give him a new car. Just replace all of the components. That way....you won't have to officially say you replaced it.

 

[ATT89]

I just can't believe you can give someone $60K for something and they have rights to not give you something that works - immediately. Oh well...that's the world we live in now.

From the responses...you would think I'm asking for the OP to get a free car or something for free.

I'm out.


Who here is willing to drive the OP's car on vacation once he gets it back?

 

[Perscitus]

It is indeed the world we live in now. 60K? Big deal. Try 600K, 6MM, 60MM, 600MM - happens all the time, day in day out.

This is why we have armies of litigators, hundred-thousand page contracts, and arbitration galore happening all over this sad little planet. So much effort and money and thought wasted on a vs b.

The fine print has all by the ... unless there is enough cash to throw at it to ease or simply cancel the hold

 

[P3dStealth]

Tesla has horrible service and generally tries to avoid correcting clear defects. I would try to return the car also. I recently brought my car in and they told me they can't fix my paint because I accepted the car like this. This is the paint above my front vent. Clearly this is a defect. File the lemon law suit. Tesla may never fix your car.

 

[1windy]

It seems to me Tesla doesn't work like other vehicle purchases. When i had a problem I asked the dealer where I purchased the vehicle to replace it. They informed me that is not how it works. If it was up to them they would. They did not have the authority to make that decision. They continued to support the vehicle by way of MULTIPLE repair attempts, and unlimited loaner time. The dealer was fantastic the vehicle not so much.
The Tesla model seems different, which it is.
Funny everyone getting worked up and the op hasn't been seen since.
Having gone through a nightmare for a year I truly hope it works out for him.

One last thing "Grandma always said you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"

So right.

 

[sduck]

Ack, another one post member starting out with a horror story. Gonna hold my tongue, but some of you can guess what I want to say...

If you remove the part about being stuck in Manhattan traffic, it's not that bad - tons of people have had worse experiences with new cars, and gone on to have tesla (or whatever car manufacturer) fix things up and get them going good as new. New cars sometimes have issues - not just teslas.

The stuck in Manhattan traffic part - yes, that sounds pretty horrible. I grew up in the NYC area, have lived there on and off, still visit frequently. I've been there - had a car break down on the Brooklyn Bridge. In rush hour traffic. And even jury rigged a trottle linkage out of a coat hanger in record time (it was a volvo from the 70's, still had carburetors and such). And a few other similar situations. But you know - if you live in the NYC area - that *sugar* happens. All the time. You deal with it, like everyone else. And for all the people honking at you, there's also a bunch of people who are going to help you push the car out of the way (once you figure out how to do so safely).

 

[qingshan]

My personal experience with a bad vehicle is they force you to sue using the lemon law. When you get an attorney they inform you 30 days out of service, or 4 unsuccessful attempts to repair the vehicle. Then a demand letter to repair is sent to manufacturer. Most manufacturers have a department that handles the requests. It is in their best financial interest to to initiate a "goodwill" repurchase. By doing this the vehicle is not forever branded a lemon, saving some value. In my instance the vehicle was sent off to auction very far from the servicing dealer.
Note of interest, attorney advertise "If I am successful in winning the case you pay nothing". When the manufacturer offers you a re purchase that is not a successful lemon law case in the eyes of the lawyer....Meaning you pay them for the service.

Most lemon laws have statutory attorney's fees which is why they can work for the normal person - litigation is expensive. So as the above post says, one could eat it. But your attorney hasn't done his job of it works out that way. The fees should be factored into the settlement.

 

[ATT89]

It seems to me Tesla doesn't work like other vehicle purchases. When i had a problem I asked the dealer where I purchased the vehicle to replace it. They informed me that is not how it works. If it was up to them they would. They did not have the authority to make that decision. They continued to support the vehicle by way of MULTIPLE repair attempts, and unlimited loaner time. The dealer was fantastic the vehicle not so much.
The Tesla model seems different, which it is.
Funny everyone getting worked up and the op hasn't been seen since.
Having gone through a nightmare for a year I truly hope it works out for him.

One last thing "Grandma always said you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"

So right.

Does the OP have his car back yet? That would be fantastic.

Anyone know?

 

[vickh]

Hey how do you put the 3 into tow mode? Just curious. With the 12v dead wouldn't the screen go out?

I'm curious about that too

 

[ATT89]

I'm curious about that too

Its on the service screen. Namely "transport mode".

 

[1windy]

Most lemon laws have statutory attorney's fees which is why they can work for the normal person - litigation is expensive. So as the above post says, one could eat it. But your attorney hasn't done his job of it works out that way. The fees should be factored into the settlement.

After nine months of complete aggravation, I was thrilled when they folded like a cheap suit. Not surprisingly after they received the demand letter. They paid all interest on the note as well. MORE THAN TRILLED. The only problem was the A HOLE governor in the state where the company has their headquarters. Delayed finalization for three months, while Gretchen screwed up everything.
Again I think it is a matter of me accepting the "goodwill" buyback, and not going to court. Sort of like pleading to the known charge as opposed to seeing what a jury would decide. Just wanted it over, was unmanageable.

 

[vickh]

Its on the service screen. Namely "transport mode".

not if the 12V fails/ Screen is off.

 

[dfwatt]

Two days ago, my new Model 3 died in the middle of a busy street in midtown Manhattan during rush hour, tying up traffic for 45 minutes.

I took delivery of my Model 3 one month ago (6/19). After two weeks and 300 miles, got the "replace 12v battery soon" message. Tesla replaced the battery the next day (7/2). As soon as I returned from the service center and parked the car, I got a "low voltage" warning and found the car would not restart. Tesla roadside assistance arranged to have the car towed back to the service center, where it remained for 2 weeks while they tried to diagnose the problem. They finally replaced the PCS and let me know the car was ready to pick up. On my way home from the service center, the car died in the middle of a busy street in midtown Manhattan, tying up traffic for 45 minutes. (Lots of honking and choice words directed my way.) Finally got through to Tesla roadside assistance, who walked me through how to put the vehicle in "towing mode" so it could be rolled out of the way of traffic and arranged to have it towed back to the service center.

I have requested that Tesla take the car back and give me a refund. Does anyone have experience with this process?

These stories make it pretty obvious that the average Tesla Service Center is not capable of diagnosing unusual faults in the high voltage system or its subsystems and controllers. If they won't take it back you should escalate this so a senior technician with real skills takes a look at this. I'm sure it's repairable but like a lot of things if you don't have a good diagnosis your treatment sucks. Guesses, shots in the dark, Etc usually just result in the problem recycling, as it appears to have here. I don't know enough about the high-voltage system to even offer a guess as to where it's failing but like I said get somebody who knows more than the average service tech. The reference to the 12 volt system suggests there may be a problem with the dc-to-dc converter that charges the 12 volt battery off the battery pack but this is all above my pay grade. It's always possible that you've got a one-off problem something that Tesla has not seen before although that's unlikely. But of course the one off problems are the toughest to fix.