New Model 3 died in midtown Manhattan during rush hour

[1windy]

The point is they haven't fixed it. And after two attempts and counting. It's only natural to have doubt about potential outcomes. Just not a good place to be.
I wonder if Tesla like most other manufacturers have a sort of roving upper level technician. The OP has a bad experience, and no choice but to wait it out.
I learned my lesson the hard way. It is a business, and if it is not fixed in 30 days or four attempts DO NOT WAIT, take it to the next step.
Contact a qualified experienced attorney.
And I would think the OP would appreciate empathy and not accuse of being dramatic.

 

[N54TT]

Who here is willing to drive the OP's car on vacation once he gets it back?

I’m willing to. Search for my posts around sept-oct 2018. My car was towed back to service less than 24hr after taking delivery for “cannot maintain vehicle power” and “unable to drive” warnings. Was there for two weeks and within a few miles from the service center more error messages popped up...turned around and went straight back to service center. It ended being there for another week. They put more miles on it doing test drives than I did myself. I received the bill for the first payment on a car that I haven’t even driven. Service center wasn’t living up to the expectation that they had set forth of daily updates/texts. I WAS LIVID!! Only other car I ever had towed was my e90 335i when the water pump took a dump after 10yrs.

Fast forward 22 months and 24k miles. I’ve driven my p3d+ on an 1800 mile road trip from NY to Chicago, multiple ski trips through snow storms, trips to AC, Montauk, Hershey etc.... Basically my car is the only one we use for road trips lol. I had a p90d loaner, was adequately compensated by the service center and its all a distant memory. By far the best car I’ve had to date.

@BillNYC thankfully I broke down in my driveway and not in the middle of NYC, but I understand your frustration/anger. Give Tesla a chance to fix it...I’m sure they’ll get it ironed out. That being said. You absolutely have the right to expect a properly functioning brand new car. Firmly but politely express your lackluster experience, expectation that the car gets fixed and intentions of invoking the lemon law if they cannot fix it.

 

[ATT89]

I’m willing to. Search for my posts around sept-oct 2018. My car was towed back to service less than 24hr after taking delivery for “cannot maintain vehicle power” and “unable to drive” warnings. Was there for two weeks and within a few miles from the service center more error messages popped up...turned around and went straight back to service center. It ended being there for another week. They put more miles on it doing test drives than I did myself. I received the bill for the first payment on a car that I haven’t even driven. Service center wasn’t living up to the expectation that they had set forth of daily updates/texts. I WAS LIVID!! Only other car I ever had towed was my e90 335i when the water pump took a dump after 10yrs.

Fast forward 22 months and 24k miles. I’ve driven my p3d+ on an 1800 mile road trip from NY to Chicago, multiple ski trips through snow storms, trips to AC, Montauk, Hershey etc.... Basically my car is the only one we use for road trips lol. I had a p90d loaner, was adequately compensated by the service center and its all a distant memory. By far the best car I’ve had to date.

@BillNYC thankfully I broke down in my driveway and not in the middle of NYC, but I understand your frustration/anger. Give Tesla a chance to fix it...I’m sure they’ll get it ironed out. That being said. You absolutely have the right to expect a properly functioning brand new car. Firmly but politely express your lackluster experience, expectation that the car gets fixed and intentions of invoking the lemon law if they cannot fix it.

Thanks for your honest opinion and the detailed explanation.

I'm going to have to live on the other side of the fence on this one. I wouldn't dare put my family in that car on a road trip. I would have to drive it for at least 6 months to a year with no signs of trouble anywhere.

This discussion is what makes the world-go-round though. We are all different and I respect our differences in this scenario. If we were all the same - Tesla would only have to make one car - the same color - with the same options. lol

I'm elated to hear that all of your issues got resolved and hope the same for the OP.

But for right now..... Tesla needs to do him right. ( especially before that first car payment shows up ). The OP deserves the car he paid for...not just a good gesture of something to ride around in.

Suggestion: Tesla - Pay his first car note for him? ( if he financed ) <----- Now the discussion is moving in the right direction.

(I can see the stock price movin north once the world sees customer service like that.)

 

[ATT89]

Here is a dinner napkin suggestion:

Tesla "FTIW" automatic for inoperable vehicles. The ancient loaner program has been around for 100 years +. Your Tesla is designed to move and we stand behind that.

We will pro-rate any loan on a daily basis and pay you your daily car payment until your car is fully operable again - for cars under warranty that are totally in-operable. Its called Free Till It Works. - and yes...the ancient loaner program is still in play.

I could hear Morgan Freeman doing that commercial.....oh wait...Tesla doesn't have advertising.


IMO - That kind of thing ( or a subset of it ) would certainly profit Tesla through sales at a dollar rate that would exceed any payouts from the offer. Something like this might put tons of people over the top to take the Tesla plunge. Especially since this event wouldn't occur much.

Do something Tesla (in customer service). Something more than what you are doing. Something more than what the competition is doing ( In customer service ). You have conquered it in the product arena.

 

[Dr Kaputnik]

Each time I hear a story like this, it makes me want a new Tesla just a little bit less. I know they are cool vehicles, I know more problems than successes are posted... but the reputation of the product is slowly being ground down. At some point it will tip.
I have an 16 yo Toyota ICE van. Its starting to show its age, there are a lot of things that need repair but it starts every time I get in... it gets me from A to B reliably and has from Day 1. Tesla needs this sort of rock solid reputation first and foremost.

 

[SlimJim]

Amazing value.

 

[1windy]

View attachment 566681
Amazing value.

I wouldn't drive that POS if you paid it for me.

LMAO Nissan Leaf

 

[dfwatt]

Each time I hear a story like this, it makes me want a new Tesla just a little bit less. I know they are cool vehicles, I know more problems than successes are posted... but the reputation of the product is slowly being ground down. At some point it will tip.
I have an 16 yo Toyota ICE van. Its starting to show its age, there are a lot of things that need repair but it starts every time I get in... it gets me from A to B reliably and has from Day 1. Tesla needs this sort of rock solid reputation first and foremost.

I would discourage that viewpoint simply because in the absence of data about this type of issue, you can always get very low incidence horror stories about every brand and make of car. The forums for all the auto manufacturers are full of them.

I would see if you could get ahold of the latest issue of Consumer Reports and see what the incidence data is on this kind of stuff. Unfortunately they are very slow to get data on even just 2019 vehicles, and I doubt they have any data on new cars.. Our two performance model 3s have been the most reliable cars we've ever owned and except for an occasional need for screen reboot, a new computer in my wife's car and the need to adjust the trunk latch in mine have been pretty much flawless. Of course that's totally anecdotal and scientifically worthless. Just like any issue you really need a scientific survey. I'm not convinced that Tesla Model 3 is fundamentally less reliable in terms of being able to drive the car which is how I would define major reliability issues.

 

[dfwatt]

View attachment 566681
Amazing value.

But do they finally have a battery management system in the leaf? They were breaking records in terms of rate of battery degradation because of no BMS. I heard that they were going to fix that but did they?

 

[Sutton 3P]

Are you for real? Somebody has a brand new car that dies in a Manhattan rush hour traffic and is really upset and you pathologize that upset? Put yourself in the other person's shoes and get off your high horse.

Apparently you don’t have much experience with us Canadians. High horsing is a cherished national pastime.

 

[dfwatt]

Apparently you don’t have much experience with us Canadians. High horsing is a cherished national pastime.

It probably helps to have neighbors who are total morons. That's us, real 'Muricans!

 

[vickh]

I wouldn't drive that POS if you paid it for me.

LMAO Nissan Leaf

I hear ya . I did get paid to test drive the leaf. 400 buttons

When I shared the SR price was lower than the Leaf I was test driving the sales person wanted a Tesla referral

 

[Gasaraki]

In response to the question of whether I have my car back: no I don’t. It just broke down on Thursday. On Friday when I went back to the SC to pick up my loaner, it was on some kind of dolly and it appeared they had not started working on it yet. The loaner is an older (2015) Model S — same one I had while my car was in the shop for 2 weeks. In that respect — providing a loaner — the dealer has done the right thing. Otherwise, the service has been disappointing — uncommunicative and barely courteous. At first I was a bit offended, but now I chalk it up to their being overwhelmed with problems they’re ill-equipped to handle. As someone mentioned, they are surprisingly dependent on Tesla Calif. The tech I spoke to when I picked the car up (the second time) explained to me that one of the reasons it took so long to come to a diagnosis (albeit an incorrect or incomplete one, it turns out) is the time difference between New York and CA.

I’m aware that I haven’t met the NY Lemon Law criteria yet, but I’m well on my way and hoping to cut the process short by asking Tesla to take the car back. There are a couple of reasons I want to return the car. One is that I have lost confidence that I can go somewhere in it without getting stranded. It’s a bit scary the way these cars suddenly become undriveable. I had an Alfa Romeo GTV6 in the ‘80’s that ended up costing 1/2 again the original purchase price, but i had to have it towed only once in five years. Like I did the Alfa, I love driving the Tesla, but I was younger then and more forgiving.) The other reason is that I’m afraid the service history of the Tesla will have a substantial negative impact on the resale price. I for one would be hesitant to buy a car with a documented history like this one has.

Thanks for all the comments.

I had my alternator die in my 2016 WRX recently, right before I got the M3. After the 12V died while driving, the power steering went and then the fuel pump went. I was on the side of the road just because the 12V ran out of juice. I was SHOCKED that the 12V battery can cause the whole car to just die while driving.

 

[Gasaraki]

But do they finally have a battery management system in the leaf? They were breaking records in terms of rate of battery degradation because of no BMS. I heard that they were going to fix that but did they?

No. It's still air cooled also.

 

[Dr Kaputnik]

I would discourage that viewpoint simply because in the absence of data about this type of issue, you can always get very low incidence horror stories about every brand and make of car. The forums for all the auto manufacturers are full of them.

I would see if you could get ahold of the latest issue of Consumer Reports and see what the incidence data is on this kind of stuff. Unfortunately they are very slow to get data on even just 2019 vehicles, and I doubt they have any data on new cars.. Our two performance model 3s have been the most reliable cars we've ever owned and except for an occasional need for screen reboot, a new computer in my wife's car and the need to adjust the trunk latch in mine have been pretty much flawless. Of course that's totally anecdotal and scientifically worthless. Just like any issue you really need a scientific survey. I'm not convinced that Tesla Model 3 is fundamentally less reliable in terms of being able to drive the car which is how I would define major reliability issues.

It is a fair point. I'm sure there are some crappy Japanese vehicles too, no one is immune from lemons. They would be on a much larger volume, so don't get the same attention. And Tesla is a relatively new manufacturer... so the expectation of absolute perfection is stretching it. At the same time, the issues I read about seem like ones that should be solved for table stakes. When you see pictures of scuffs and repositioned bolts etc, it seems like its a mad rush to push them out of the factory, versus taking pride in producing a quality product
I'm in a long queue for a Cybertruck, so I do have the benefit of a horizon to evaluate before making a decision... and I hope they really invest time and money to solve these sorts of issues.

 

[dfwatt]

It is a fair point. I'm sure there are some crappy Japanese vehicles too, no one is immune from lemons. They would be on a much larger volume, so don't get the same attention. And Tesla is a relatively new manufacturer... so the expectation of absolute perfection is stretching it. At the same time, the issues I read about seem like ones that should be solved for table stakes. When you see pictures of scuffs and repositioned bolts etc, it seems like its a mad rush to push them out of the factory, versus taking pride in producing a quality product
I'm in a long queue for a Cybertruck, so I do have the benefit of a horizon to evaluate before making a decision... and I hope they really invest time and money to solve these sorts of issues.

The problem with anecdotal reports is that they may just drive confirmation bias if you know what that means. Since you're a doctor I suspect you do. That's why large-scale surveys are the only way to really answer how well screwed together the model 3 might be. I dropped my subscription to Consumer Reports after they reversed course on the model 3 about six times. And they refuse to reveal their data just their summary metrics. The other thing I thought was sketchy was that screen reboots and paint issues are considered reliability problems. They need to have a better way of parsing quality control issues. The car won't start or it dies that's a major reliability issue. If your paint has some issues that should not be considered reliability but quality control around fit and finish. Anyway, I hope you get a good outcome one way or the other.

 

[BillNYC]

One week update (one week after car last died, 3 weeks after first died, 5 weeks after purchase): still in the shop with no estimated completion date. Someone from Tesla did call to say they found that coolant had dripped onto the wires and that they thought that was the problem, but that was 2 days ago and I haven’t heard anything since.

 

[Margaritaboy]

The problem with anecdotal reports is that they may just drive confirmation bias if you know what that means. Since you're a doctor I suspect you do. That's why large-scale surveys are the only way to really answer how well screwed together the model 3 might be. I dropped my subscription to Consumer Reports after they reversed course on the model 3 about six times. And they refuse to reveal their data just their summary metrics. The other thing I thought was sketchy was that screen reboots and paint issues are considered reliability problems. They need to have a better way of parsing quality control issues. The car won't start or it dies that's a major reliability issue. If your paint has some issues that should not be considered reliability but quality control around fit and finish. Anyway, I hope you get a good outcome one way or the other.

Can you reference a large scale survey on this subject? I’d be interested in reviewing one if it exists.

One week update (one week after car last died, 3 weeks after first died, 5 weeks after purchase): still in the shop with no estimated completion date. Someone from Tesla did call to say they found that coolant had dripped onto the wires and that they thought that was the problem, but that was 2 days ago and I haven’t heard anything since.

That is really discouraging. Keep us posted, and sorry you are having so much trouble with the vehicle. I am really curious what gremlin they uncover as the root cause.

 

[linux-works]

We will pro-rate any loan on a daily basis and pay you your daily car payment until your car is fully operable again - for cars under warranty that are totally in-operable. Its called Free Till It Works. - and yes...the ancient loaner program is still in play.

I could hear Morgan Freeman doing that commercial.....oh wait...Tesla doesn't have advertising.

 

[dfwatt]

Can you reference a large scale survey on this subject? I’d be interested in reviewing one if it exists.



That is really discouraging. Keep us posted, and sorry you are having so much trouble with the vehicle. I am really curious what gremlin they uncover as the root cause.

I just checked Consumer Reports. Their format for reliability posting is grossly almost comically inappropriate for electric vehicles. Lots of stuff about things like transmission, engine, and radiator and exhaust systems. I'll see if I can cut and paste a snippet from the summary. They rate the reliability of the car as good but again their metrics are bizarre and they consider paint and trim issues part of reliability. Short form of a long story I don't think there is any readily available data for how often folks are stranded in their model 3s. I'd wager it's not often but obviously even if it happens once in a many thousands or so Vehicles it's incredibly frustrating for the owner.