NEW Model 3 Highland review!

[Destiny1701]

Not speaking for Sleepydoc but the 2020 MY had horrible suspension. Nothing compares to it and no trick short of a complete suspension replacement would fix it. Loved that car but it was a rough ride.

Was referring to the revised 23/24’ lol.
And yes I agree the 20’ Y literally drives like
a go kart with a body shell!

 

[SO16]

If I found the stalkless to be a problem but liked the rest of the car, I’d just buy aftermarket stalks.

 

[Destiny1701]

Model 3 Highland OEM Style Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

Installation Video As a Model 3 highland owner, are you still struggling with getting used to shifting gears through the screen? This Model 3 highland Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit perfectly restores the original gear lever, eliminating the need for a transition period to adapt...

teslaunch.net

 

[SalisburySam]

So if someone gets a Tesla with steering wheel missing, just tell them to use pliers because Tesla will go back and address the need for a steering wheel "sooner than anyone thinks" (Elon's term when talking about FSD) .

Vehemently disagree! Pliers will slip off too easily; you’ll need at a minimum a Crescent wrench or preferably Vise-Grips:

 

[SO16]

Good review.

 

[phigment]

If I found the stalkless to be a problem but liked the rest of the car, I’d just buy aftermarket stalks.

Can you link to an aftermarket stalk I can buy?

 

[Destiny1701]

Can you link to an aftermarket stalk I can buy?

Model 3 Highland OEM Style Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit for Tesla

Installation Video As a Model 3 highland owner, are you still struggling with getting used to shifting gears through the screen? This Model 3 highland Gear Shift Stalk Switch Turn Signal Lever Kit perfectly restores the original gear lever, eliminating the need for a transition period to adapt...

teslaunch.net

 

[BigNick]

(though I'd be willing to bet if it requires new cameras, they are not paying for a retrofit of cameras or other sensors to make auto-wipers work)

Cameras should only be used for an activation of the wipers when rain is detected. After that, determine the timing/speed of the next wipe by the mechanical resistance of the blades across the windshield. More mechanical resistance means more current needed to wipe, slow down the wipes. Less mechanical resistance = lower current = speed up the wipes.

I can’t take credit for the concept. Citroën came up with this idea 50+ years ago.

 

[BigNick]

Cameras should only be used for an activation of the wipers when rain is detected. After that, determine the timing/speed of the next wipe by the mechanical resistance of the blades across the windshield. More mechanical resistance means more current needed to wipe, slow down the wipes. Less mechanical resistance = lower current = speed up the wipes.

I can’t take credit for the concept. Citroën came up with this idea 50+ years ago.

That should read "an initial activation". Phone post looks like it removed the word "initial" due to a phantom touch or something.

And because I was too lazy to cite a source while on my phone:

Citroën SM - Wiper Innovation - Citroënvie!

citroenvie.com

Intermittent Wipers - Citroen SM Wiki

citroen-sm.org

How It Works: Auto Windshield Wipers

Automakers have spend years trying to perfect wipers that know when to turn themselves on, and how fast to flail back and forth.

www.popularmechanics.com

Short video:

 

[ChooseFreedom]

So thinking about it and the functions handled by the stalks and how they change:

Turn signaling - the buttons are convenient only if your hand is in a specific spot on the wheel. They move with the wheel so they're not in a consistent spot. if your hand isn't on the wheel at the 8-9 o'clock position you need to search for them. If you have gloves or a band-aid on they don't work. Holding the button down in FSD is problematic. Verdict: inferior

(As an anecdotal example, I was driving, started to get turn and then realized I was in the wrong lane and needed to merge back. I had started to turn and my hands were not in the 'standard' location on the wheel and I had a split second to check traffic and activate the turn signal to let people know I was merging back before it was too late. The button utterly failed in this situation.)

Wipers - The button works in the same manner as the button on the stalk but is moved to the right side. The same issues apply here as listed above but the need to activate the wipers at a specific time is less than with the turn signal. Verdict: slightly inferior

High beams: Pushing the button flashes the hight beams, holding the button for a set duration turns them on. If you want to flash your beams (to let someone know they have their high beams on for example) the stalk is easier to find. 'double clicking' the button may be a tad easier. Turning high beams on with the stalk is a quicker action. The other drawbacks with the buttons still apply. High beams are not a frequent use item so the impact is minimal. Verdict: slightly inferior but likely not enough to quibble about.

Gear Selection: For the stalkless a control appears on the screen when you press the brake. You swipe up for drive, down for reverse. While driving you press and hold for park. Neutral is a separate button lower down. There are also physical buttons above the rear view mirror. There is also an auto-shift feature. I haven't tried this to know how good it is. (Based on my experience with other automatic features Tesla has introduced I'm skeptical but this is conjecture on my part.) To activate the emergency brake while driving you press and hold the stalk button. For the stalkless version you have to press and hold P on the screen. The stalk is clearly more convenient, particularly if you're maneuvering as you do with parallel parking. If you need to use the emergency brake reaching and holding a soft button on the screen is problematic but this is such a rare use case that I don't think it comes into play. Verdict: Inferior

TACC/AP/FSD Activation: has moved from the stalk to the right scroll wheel button. (this also necessitated a separate button for voice commands.) it can be argued that using the stalk for both gear selection and TACC/FSD/AP activation is confusing so in this respect, separating them makes it more clear. (Personally, I've never had an issue and I haven't seen reports of issues.) Moving the voice command button make it slightly less convenient but not enough to worry about. Verdict: Neutral to slight improvement.

So yeah. no improvement, clear drawbacks = bad design.

Every single one of those points should end with "for me". (Except the gloves problem. That's a real issue)
They are your opinion based on your experience, which is perfectly fine, as that is what this post was for.
But don't write your opinion in the form of fact. It's only your reality based on your experience.
Saying that stalks have been an industry standard for 100 yrs tells me exactly where you're coming from.
The root cause of your "review" comes from being stubborn about change.

It sounds like you just want an ICE car that happens run on a battery.
Tesla has never been that (exception to original 'Lotus' Roadster). The whole reason Tesla has been successful is because it pushes the idea of what a car can do/be to it's limit. And all that's done is drag the rest of the auto industry into the EV era. It wasn't going to happen otherwise. And sure, when you take big swings, you're going to miss sometimes. But it's more important to take those swings!
I do wish they waited until they had steer-by-wire to remove stalks. It would have helped since you wouldn't have to remove your hand from the wheel as much, but oh well.
I've said it before, going forward, any new drivers that learn how to drive in a new Tesla don't have the old habits of using stalks or gear shifters. They'll learn without them, and won't have the biases that older drivers do.
Reaction time won't be worse, because they aren't unlearning the old way.

It comes down to how open are you to learn a new (better or not) way of driving.
If you're unwilling to adapt, don't buy it.

 

[Destiny1701]

I agree post above that adaptability is different per person.

Interestingly my new driver daughter age 17 has been driving only 4-5 months on our 22’ LR and when I brought home a 24’ LR test drive car (to see if I keep my Perf order) she took it around the block for around 10 min. Her reaction? ‘Dad this is the dumbest thing ever. The signal turns with the wheel and shifting the gears makes me take my eyes of the road when I pulled it of the driveway. Is tesla stupid? Nope. Don’t want it. Keep ours.’.

She’s of a generation that adapts fast to anything tbh and she herself has no long term ‘stalk memory’ built up.

It is what it is…not every bat swing gets it right lol .

 

[ChooseFreedom]

I agree post above that adaptability is different per person.

Interestingly my new driver daughter age 17 has been driving only 4-5 months on our 22’ LR and when I brought home a 24’ LR test drive car (to see if I keep my Perf order) she took it around the block for around 10 min. Her reaction? ‘Dad this is the dumbest thing ever. The signal turns with the wheel and shifting the gears makes me take my eyes of the road when I pulled it of the driveway. Is tesla stupid? Nope. Don’t want it. Keep ours.’.

She’s of a generation that adapts fast to anything tbh and she herself has no long term ‘stalk memory’ built up.

It is what it is…not every bat swing gets it right lol .

You still can't compare 4-5 months of habits to a 10 minute drive.
If they had been learning on a '24 for 4-5 months, then hopped in an older one, their reaction could very well have been the exact same!

 

[Destiny1701]

You still can't compare 4-5 months of habits to a 10 minute drive.
If they had been learning on a '24 for 4-5 months, then hopped in an older one, their reaction could very well have been the exact same!

Perhaps

My wife hated it…my daughter and my 15 yr old son who only drives parking lots to learn. He also tried it out and absolutely thought the gear shift was odd but signals he could get used to…didn’t prefer it, but could get used to it.

Keep in mind if it was reversed and buttons and screen shift were always the norm, and all of a sudden this new revolutionary ‘stalks’ function came about providing quicker shifts, easier hand eye coordination and use of one hand rather than two…I’d wager the acceptance of this new innovation would far outweigh what we see happening now. Opposite infact.

You mean once can shift gears with one hand while holding the wheel as an afterthought? I dont have to shift gears with one hand and then hold wheel and then reach back again to shift again?
Wow..cool!

Oh…and now I can shift L or R no matter which direction the wheel is pointed in and all I have to do is reach for the same spot each time? Whaaaat?! So I can be glancing at my screen or reaching for my coffee or talking to my passenger and I don’t need to wait for the wheel to be straight to hit my indicator? What sorcery is this?!

Not every upgrade is improved functionality. It’s sexy and it’s definitely 21st century tech, but does not mean it’s truly a better system.

 

[ChooseFreedom]

Perhaps

My wife hated it…my daughter and my 15 yr old son who only drives parking lots to learn. He also tried it out and absolutely thought the gear shift was odd but signals he could get used to…didn’t prefer it, but could get used to it.

Keep in mind if it was reversed and buttons and screen shift were always the norm, and all of a sudden this new revolutionary ‘stalks’ function came about providing quicker shifts, easier hand eye coordination and use of one hand rather than two…I’d wager the acceptance of this new innovation would far outweigh what we see happening now. Opposite infact.

You mean once can shift gears with one hand while holding the wheel as an afterthought? I dont have to shift gears with one hand and then hold wheel and then reach back again to shift again?
Wow..cool!

Oh…and now I can shift L or R no matter which direction the wheel is pointed in and all I have to do is reach for the same spot each time? Whaaaat?! So I can be glancing at my screen or reaching for my coffee or talking to my passenger and I don’t need to wait for the wheel to be straight to hit my indicator? What sorcery is this?!

Not every upgrade is improved functionality. It’s sexy and it’s definitely 21st century tech, but does not mean it’s truly a better system.

Yeah, everyone will have their own experience and perspective.
I never called the changes "better". Just different.
And cars that are so different in so many ways, are going to have some of those ways be debatable.
Each individual gets to decide for themselves what's a deal breaker and what they can adapt to. If enough of the people share the same opinion, and cast their vote with their wallets, the company will listen. But the company gets to decide what "enough" is.

 

[SO16]

For these little things like stalks, front display, HUD or wheel vs yoke, that’s where aftermarket comes in. I care more about the core of the car than the fluff which can be changed as wanted.

 

[Yelobird]

Perhaps

My wife hated it…my daughter and my 15 yr old son who only drives parking lots to learn. He also tried it out and absolutely thought the gear shift was odd but signals he could get used to…didn’t prefer it, but could get used to it.

Keep in mind if it was reversed and buttons and screen shift were always the norm, and all of a sudden this new revolutionary ‘stalks’ function came about providing quicker shifts, easier hand eye coordination and use of one hand rather than two…I’d wager the acceptance of this new innovation would far outweigh what we see happening now. Opposite infact.

You mean once can shift gears with one hand while holding the wheel as an afterthought? I dont have to shift gears with one hand and then hold wheel and then reach back again to shift again?
Wow..cool!

Oh…and now I can shift L or R no matter which direction the wheel is pointed in and all I have to do is reach for the same spot each time? Whaaaat?! So I can be glancing at my screen or reaching for my coffee or talking to my passenger and I don’t need to wait for the wheel to be straight to hit my indicator? What sorcery is this?!

Not every upgrade is improved functionality. It’s sexy and it’s definitely 21st century tech, but does not mean it’s truly a better system.

Your passenger should ask “why the hell are you signaling Now, you’re already in the turn??”

 

[chinney]

As for the shifting part of it, don't a lot of ICE cars now have shifting 'dials' down on the console? I certainly driven a few rentals like that. Is that better than shifting on a heads up screen?

 

[afadeev]

As for the shifting part of it, don't a lot of ICE cars now have shifting 'dials' down on the console?

Dials, buttons, levers, steering column paddles - all interface elements you can engage without taking your eyes off the road.

I certainly driven a few rentals like that.

Personally, I prefer physical shift levers (prefer manual tranny, actually), but have driven cars with buttons and dials for gear shifting as well.

Is that better than shifting on a heads up screen?

I don't know, and neither do you - Tesla is too cheap to put a real HUD into its vehicles.
BTW, that would have been really nice, and it would be an extra feature3 for which I would pay happily $$$$.

Unfortunately, the touch-screen is not a heads-up-display, nor does it provide any tactile feedback. And, it crashes and goes black on you every other week (or sometimes you have to reboot it manually). That leaves one with clumsy physical back-up buttons at the least ergonomic and least intuitive location in the car - the roof.

Lets admit it - sometimes Tesla does flat out dumb stuff.
This is one of those situations.
No need to invents excuses for this.

a

 

[Destiny1701]

Your passenger should ask “why the hell are you signaling Now, you’re already in the turn??”

Roundabouts. Increasingly becoming more commonplace.

 

[Yelobird]

And, it crashes and goes black on your every other week (or sometimes you have to reboot it manually).

a

exaggerate much? I can remember 1 time in 4 years I had a reboot while driving and I Think that was for a camera calibration. You clearly have something wrong with your car.