New plaid rear brake caliper looks like it may be open pot with a cover.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Would any of you buy the $20,000 brake upgrade kit if they release it?

No. I’ll pay 10k and installed at the factory. The only way forward for me. I have a 22 RS Etron GT with CCBS. Those brakes deliver. I had a Z/28 with CCBS. Those brakes delivered. These Plaid brakes suck. We need CCBS at the right price and installed at the factory.

Make sure I get credit for spelling brakes and not breaks.

 

[Sam1]

Got me curious. Please post a link where they call it that in dirt track racing?

Nothing to prove on my part, my family has owned and operated a large dirt track for 30 years.

 

[SoCal Buzz]

No. I’ll pay 10k and installed at the factory. The only way forward for me. I have a 22 RS Etron GT with CCBS. Those brakes deliver. I had a Z/28 with CCBS. Those brakes delivered. These Plaid brakes suck. We need CCBS at the right price and installed at the factory.

Make sure I get credit for spelling brakes and not breaks.

So how would you compare your Plaid vs. Audi overall amd preference?

 

[phaphaphooey]

FWIW Audi RS6/7 have roughly same weight and have a single piston sliding caliper on the rear with CCBs optional. I have never had any problem with the braking capacity on my RS7. With that said, it has several 100 less HP than the Plaid.

 

[Richbot]

x/s hvae had a sliding rear caliper since the Raven updates, maybe before? So does the Merc AMG sedan setup (they ditched the multi piston fixed rear calipers in about 2018), the Audi RSQ8, the Urus, the M5...garbage, all of them lol

I think the only mass manufacturer still clinging to that old rear multipiston brake religion is Porsche on the Panamera/Cayenne? Maybe? Macan gets rear sliding calipers

It's not the calipers causing all the headaches on the Plaid, it's the lack of floating rotors, all weather all-conditions pad compound, no ducting, yada, obviously why the aftermarket has focused on upgrading those parts

 

[Richbot]

No. I’ll pay 10k and installed at the factory. The only way forward for me. I have a 22 RS Etron GT with CCBS. Those brakes deliver. I had a Z/28 with CCBS. Those brakes delivered. These Plaid brakes suck. We need CCBS at the right price and installed at the factory.

Make sure I get credit for spelling brakes and not breaks.

give the guy a break

 

[WilliamG]

So does the Merc AMG setup, the Audi RSQ8, the Urus, the M5...garbage, all of them lol

Never fully understood the point of huge brakes on the rear except on track cars that have pretty much no suspension compression movement, since for normal cars (like ours), when under extreme braking the front dives, the rear has little grip on the ground, and all that weight floods to the front wheels, anyway. Better brake fluid? Sure! Better pads? Sure!

But hey, I ain't no engineering type. Still seems like we'd be better off with better thermally managed front pads/fluid, which I guess is what Tesla is doing:

1.) Better brake pads (in the front and maybe in the rear, but who knows. Might not cost them anything so they switch both sets to avoid repercussions from the public). Maybe some better DOT brake fluid.

2.) Red brake calipers, because red is faster.

3.) The dumb new cover to make the rear caliper look larger, even though it's the same damn caliper underneath. But hey, looks are everything.......... I guess.

4.) Then I suspect someone within Tesla saw the "larger" rear caliper images and was like, "COOL, I'LL GO UPDATE THE SITE TO SAY NEW CALIPERS!". Then, Elon Musk saw this, and was like "NO, IDIOT! IT'S JUST THE PADS! WE'RE NOT GENEROUS ENOUGH TO UPGRADE THE ACTUAL CALIPERS! WE'RE TOO BUSY SCREWING EARLY ADOPTERS OUT OF STEAM GAMING!"

And voila, the change to the website was made, and now it's just... pads.

 

[Richbot]

Pads may be all it takes. Floating rotors would be nice, but a "simple" (it never is) pad change can definitely transform a brake system

We'll see! Hoon them red calipers boyeee

 

[phaphaphooey]

x/s hvae had a sliding rear caliper since the Raven updates, maybe before? So does the Merc AMG sedan setup (they ditched the multi piston fixed rear calipers in about 2018), the Audi RSQ8, the Urus, the M5...garbage, all of them lol

I think the only mass manufacturer still clinging to that old rear multipiston brake religion is Porsche on the Panamera/Cayenne? Maybe? Macan gets rear sliding calipers

It's not the calipers causing all the headaches on the Plaid, it's the lack of floating rotors, all weather all-conditions pad compound, no ducting, yada, obviously why the aftermarket has focused on upgrading those parts

I am with you on mainstream manufacturers but look at any performance manufacturer (McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari, et al) and all of them use multipiston rear brakes. There is no debate about multipiston being superior to single piston brake setup in essentially every way except cost.

 

[Sam1]

I am with you on mainstream manufacturers but look at any performance manufacturer (McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari, et al) and all of them use multipiston rear brakes. There is no debate about multipiston being superior to single piston brake setup in essentially every way except cost.

Yeah, it's the same deal with any brake system, or clutches for that matter. The larger the area the pressure is, the smoother the engagement. Which is one of the most significant benefits, because you don't go from engagement to lock up, as fast as you would with a small pad on a single piston. (and since people here like to unnecessarily argue technicalities, let me add a disclaimer that happens with all other variables being the same)

 

[URBAN LEGEND]

So how would you compare your Plaid vs. Audi overall amd preference?

Fit, finish, braking, laser lights, all wheel steering, CCBS, service and seats are Audi wins. The Plaid is king on everything else. Speed, range, higher adjustable height settings, super charging convenience, OTA updates, no key to get in, no start button to push, better app, etc.

The RS E-Tron GT is smaller too. Way more cargo room in the Plaid. Those 1020 horsepower are a game changer. I would buy both again if I could go back.

 

[Richbot]

I am with you on mainstream manufacturers but look at any performance manufacturer (McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari, et al) and all of them use multipiston rear brakes. There is no debate about multipiston being superior to single piston brake setup in essentially every way except cost.

Obviously, cost no object, but it's always an object when you're an engineer fighting tooth and nail for every unique part number. Look how much anguish had to happen for unique *pads* to be offered! "Close enough, ship it" is a company motto...

The other question is, does the Model S/EV's in general with their weight distribution and power delivery and weight transfer and all that being quite a bit different from a your typical front engine E63 or M5 (which left 50/50 weight distribution in the rearview many years ago, and also have CG heights inches higher off the ground than Model S) or whatever reference point, does the common chassis dynamics wisdom of "the rears don't do anyhting but stabilize the car and slow down 10% of it" actually apply? Of course the weight transfers forward but it transfers differently - McLaren, Ferrari, and Lambo are mid-engine focused manufacturers, a layout that needs a lot more tire and rear brake power. I wonder to what extent the battery/cg height and big rear drive units make the front engine/rear biased drive ubersedan a little less relevant.

All knowable from ABS signals and the onboard accelerometers and such, to the extent they're accessible over CAN or whatever. Wonder if there are data out there on the Plaid yet that can be shared.

Another question I have, a lot of manufacturers use individual brake channels to handle wheelspin at individual corners for stability during performance driving, and you can absolutely destroy brakes on one end of the car if the stability control is intervening constantly, even if the specs say they ought to be good for a whole session with it turned off. With Plaid's always-on stability control, and only one front motor, I wonder to what extent the front brakes are tasked with keeping inside front wheelspin under control, and to what extent the rear brakes are necessary for this same job with the two motors potentially way faster to respond to wheelspin than brake hydraulics

 

[TheWhiteEGG]

This car definitely deserves 4 wheel braking.
However, that is not the case.
100% of manual breaking come from front pads after regenerative breaking is not enough.
Rear breaking helps from inclined driving or parking.

 

[lowtek]

I am with you on mainstream manufacturers but look at any performance manufacturer (McLaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari, et al) and all of them use multipiston rear brakes. There is no debate about multipiston being superior to single piston brake setup in essentially every way except cost.

Model S Plaid isn't a $300K+ car .... no doubt they are using what they need vs what people perceive is needed ...

There are aftermarket upgrades.

I'm interested in Tesla's new brake system but not willing to pay $20K for it. Maybe $10K installed if it makes it more managable on the track and doesn't impact daily driving.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Also worth noting that even though the brakes are universally panned, the current Model S has outstanding braking performance out of the box of 60-0 in 104 feet, which is outstanding for such a heavy car.

The only downside to the brakes is that they overheat quickly from repeated back to back hard braking stops.

Yeah, that's a key point to remember. It has a ton of braking power and lots of traction from the big tires, but the brakes overheat with repeated hard stops. That matches up fine with street use. It's not often that you are doing repeated 60-0 stops on the street.

 

[phaphaphooey]

Model S Plaid isn't a $300K+ car .... no doubt they are using what they need vs what people perceive is needed ...

There are aftermarket upgrades.

I'm interested in Tesla's new brake system but not willing to pay $20K for it. Maybe $10K installed if it makes it more managable on the track and doesn't impact daily driving.

Agreed, hence me saying that cost is the only reason that those types of single pot brakes would be used. It is yet another example in the long line of Tesla cost cutting. As to whether it would make a material difference in braking performance for a Plaid, I have no idea. I just know that on other performance oriented cost is less of an object manufacturers, multipot calipers are always used. As to the mid engined comment above, while it is true that exotics tend to be mid engined, Ferrari has always made a number of FR cars (presently Roma/Portofino/812/ I may be forgetting one) and I guarantee you there is not a floating caliper to be found on the car outside of the parking brake.

 

[tomsla]

Selecting brake components shouldn't be compared with ICE cars. We have regen which I'm sure has an effect, particularly since the brakes are rarely used. I expect both the lack of usage and regen changes the optimal brake design over ICE cars. I think it was Munro Associates that thought we might be better off with drum brakes in the rear on EVs, and not due to cost differences. I'm not sure of the reasons though. I did notice the latest Audi eTron uses rear drum brakes.

I'm not advocating for drums, as the eTron is far from a sports car, but I wish I knew more about why different options are better for our specific EVs.

The regen will not make up for the difference in braking between one caliper and four-caliper pistons. There are multiple reasons why Plaids have had issues on track - mainly involving the weight of the car and the braking components.

 

[lowtek]

The regen will not make up for the difference in braking between one caliper and four-caliper pistons. There are multiple reasons why Plaids have had issues on track - mainly involving the weight of the car and the braking components.

Carbon Ceramic FTW!

 

[565565]

I think the only mass manufacturer still clinging to that old rear multipiston brake religion is Porsche on the Panamera/Cayenne? Maybe? Macan gets rear sliding calipers

Both Cadillac blackwing sedans, the CT4 and CT5 both have 4 piston monoblock calipers on the rear.
The Camaro SS and higher trims have fixed calipers. Corvettes.
Nissan Z performance and Infiniti Q50 Redsport. Lexus LC, even the GR corolla gets fixed rear calipers.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

I will need to see for myself how well the brakes work on my MSP before I decide. My last new car was a Porsche 911 turbo, and the brakes were… well… amazing. If the brakes on my new MSP are not as good as I need, then I will upgrade. For now, I have asked to be notified when the new brakes are available.

Would any of you buy the $20,000 brake upgrade kit if they release it?