New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15)

[Yggdrasill]

I agree with Krugerrand in the sense that if Tesla indeed does tell that, then we don't need to know why. It would be nice to know and perhaps we'll speculate or research which is fine, but I wouldn't reasonably expect anything more from Tesla in that case. I actually hope Tesla tells us that - "folding second row seats will be a future option" - on September 29th, so people can make decisions on waiting etc.

I would guess that this is exactly why we wouldn't hear anything from Tesla on this issue. Tesla doesn't want people to wait, they want people to buy the cars as soon as they become available.

My guess is that we will know about folding 2nd row seats the same day they can be ordered.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I would guess that this is exactly why we wouldn't hear anything from Tesla on this issue. Tesla doesn't want people to wait, they want people to buy the cars as soon as they become available.

My guess is that we will know about 3rd row seats the same day they can be ordered.

My hope was based on how I would like Tesla to act.

Not necessarily on how I expect them to.

We shall see. Maybe they will do the right thing and open this whole topic up with candor.

- - - Updated - - -

One solution for Tesla would be to tell they'll be selling the folding seats as a retrofit option at a special price, at a later date.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I won't rule out that Tesla could announce something. They do seem to have more than enough orders to keep them occupied for a few months, even if 50% would choose to wait for folding 2nd row.

But I doubt it. They'd be afraid of running out of orders before the seats were ready.

 

[smac]

One solution for Tesla would be to tell they'll be selling the folding seats as a retrofit option at a special price, at a later date.

That presupposes that it's possible or that it doesn't just shift the problem to another compromise (for example non sliding seats)

In other words they could end up setting expectations above what is deliverable again, and simply exacerbating the PR problems down the line. As frustrating as it is, I hope they keep quiet on this until they have a proven design.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That presupposes that it's possible or that it doesn't just shift the problem to another compromise (for example non sliding seats)

In other words they could end up setting expectations above what is deliverable again, and simply exacerbating the PR problems down the line. As frustrating as it is, I hope they keep quiet on this until they have a proven design.

Then they could just tell us that the folding seats may offer limited functionality compared to what is shipping now, but if you absolutely must have that feature, rest assured it will be offered as a retrofit at a later date - and put some price on it. People can decide whether or not to do the retrofit then - and quite likely many after that wait driving the Model X with non-folding seats would just think, I'm fine with what I have, and not even do the retrofit. The option would give peace of mind to pull the trigger now, because people know they can sort it out later if they need to - and tell that to their concerned spouses and whatnot who may want the option.

I'm fairly confident that would be at least better customer service than silence. Now, keeping secrets and selling us a compromised vehicle (compared to what will come) is certainly the corporate option.

 

[hpham007]

What seems to be lost in all of these posts is that this vehicle was always positioned as a performance luxury crossover not a full SUV.

1. Where was it ever marketed as a crossover?
2. Crossover seats fold down.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Indeed. Elon even compared the Model X to Audi Q7. At least all the European competitors in Model X's approximate class have folding second rows.

 

[AnOutsider]

What seems to be lost in all of these posts is that this vehicle was always positioned as a performance luxury crossover not a full SUV..

You may have missed the multiple postings here illustrating how Tesla blasted about storage and flat folding seats.

 

[1208]

City car seats fold down. Toyota Aygo
Hatchback seats fold down. Honda Fit
Saloon car seats fold down. BMW Mercedes Tesla S
Minivan seats fold down. Fiat Dublo
Crossover seats fold down. Nissan Qashqai
SUV seats fold down. Range Rover

Even the cheap Romanian Dacia Duster an SUV under £10k has seats that fold down. https://www.dacia.co.uk/vehicles/duster/range/access/


Edit: Oh look, roof rack for roof storage and hitch for bikes as well as the fold down seats on a car which costs the same as the premium interior and ludicrous upgrade. :biggrin:

 

[Matias]

C

Even the cheap Romanian Dacia Duster an SUV under £10k has seats that fold down. https://www.dacia.co.uk/vehicles/duster/range/access/

But are they sculptural piece of art!!

:tongue:

 

[smac]

City car seats fold down. Toyota Aygo
Hatchback seats fold down. Honda Fit
Saloon car seats fold down. BMW Mercedes Tesla S
Minivan seats fold down. Fiat Dublo
Crossover seats fold down. Nissan Qashqai
SUV seats fold down. Range Rover

Even the cheap Romanian Dacia Duster an SUV under £10k has seats that fold down. https://www.dacia.co.uk/vehicles/duster/range/access/

But all those cars have nasty "C pillars"

 

[Mark Z]

...Does anyone know if you need an invite to attend the Sept. 29th first reveal? I live 30 minutes from the plant and would like to attend.

Here is the last email text I received direct from Tesla when I did my best to attempt to attend the "ceremony" (my words) on the 29th:

"Thank you for continued enthusiasm and support for Tesla!

At this point, we are not planning to hold a ‘Founder’s Ceremony’ at Fremont. We are delivering our first cars on this date, but there will be no official public event.

Should this change then I will of course be in touch."

IMHO, a handoff of key fobs to several Founders is all that I expect to see by video. 2012 news links that I have previously posted of the two Model S handoffs show only the Fremont employees gathered to see one Founder person getting their Model S early on and then another event where the first cars were rolled out of the factory. This was back in the days when each Tesla Model S would be delivered personally. Unlike the many "invited" events I have enjoyed through the years, no invite appeared for me in 2012 for those "handoff" events, even though I had a Signature order.

Since the X Reveal event in 2012, I have mentioned to Tesla employees my hope for a factory celebration many times, but in recent months the comment from long time service center individuals was that normal deliveries at service centers were being planned for Model X. Local delivery management recently mentioned to me personally that extra time may be required to make sure that the first vehicles are perfect. Only one promise was made, that my Model X would be delivered before the end of the year. Being in the first configuration group for Model X Signature, IMHO, it should be sooner than that.

At this point, I absolutely want Tesla Motors to take their time to get the early VINs perfectly assembled and tested before delivery. By NOT having an event for the first deliveries of Signature X, Tesla Motors would have the flexibility they need to not rush and let Elon double check the quality. Once those first vehicles are perfect, if they want to schedule a last minute factory handoff, I would attend in a moment. But at this point, no "change" has been mentioned, so delivery at a local service center (that currently appears in "View Profile - Pick Up") is what I can expect.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Here is the last email text I received direct from Tesla when I did my best to attempt to attend the "ceremony" (my words) on the 29th:

"Thank you for continued enthusiasm and support for Tesla!

At this point, we are not planning to hold a ‘Founder’s Ceremony’ at Fremont. We are delivering our first cars on this date, but there will be no official public event.

Should this change then I will of course be in touch."

IMHO, a handoff of key fobs to several Founders is all that I expect to see by video. 2012 news links that I have previously posted of the two Model S handoffs show only the Fremont employees and one Founder person getting their Model S early on and then another event where the first cars were rolled out of the factory. This was back in the days when each Tesla Model S would be delivered personally. Unlike the many "invited" events I have enjoyed through the years, no invite appeared for me in 2012 for those "handoff" events, even though I had a Signature order.

Since the X Reveal event in 2012, I have mentioned to Tesla employees my hope for a factory celebration many times, but in recent months the comment from long time service center individuals was that normal deliveries at service centers were being planned for Model X. Local delivery management recently mentioned to me personally that extra time may be required to make sure that the first vehicles are perfect. Only one promise was made, that my Model X would be delivered before the end of the year. Being in the first configuration group for Model X Signature, IMHO, it should be sooner than that.

At this point, I absolutely want Tesla Motors to take their time to get the early VINs perfectly assembled and tested before delivery. By NOT having an event for the first deliveries of Signature X, Tesla Motors would have the flexibility they need to not rush and let Elon double check the quality. Once those first vehicles are perfect, if they want to schedule a last minute factory handoff, I would attend in a moment. But at this point, no "change" has been mentioned, so delivery at a local service center (that currently appears in "View Profile - Pick Up") is what I can expect.

No comment on the matter itself, but on motivation: I think protecting Model S sales is also a very likely reason. As far as the wider public is concerned, Tesla is still selling the Model S only. Model X steps are taken for investors and to start manufacturing for early reservationsts in as much silence as possible, but beyond that they are probably playing time - as well as other motivators.

Intersting to see if September 29th marks coming out of the closet, so to speak.

 

[WarpedOne]

It does stop one from moving such long but narrow items that previously could be transported by folding the middle seat and letting them extend all the way to the front. This is not an insignificant limitation - unless Tesla offers a ski hatch in the second row, which might help a little.

It is not about weather seats fold or not, it is about the length of available space.
Not all SUVs are of same length, and there are some with folding seats and less room than some others without folding seats.
This obsession about second row folding seats is absurd. Its a feature, some have it, the others don't.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

It is not about weather seats fold or not, it is about the length of available space.
Not all SUVs are of same length, and there are some with folding seats and less room than some others without folding seats.
This obsession about second row folding seats is absurd. Its a feature, some have it, the others don't.

Most have it.

But I think you missed my point of available length: On the Model X the available length - as things stand anyway - stops where the frontmost adjustment of the second row stops.

On cars with a folding second row, you can put items that pass onto the front of the car, either through between the front seats (say a long piece of wood) or by moving e.g. the front passenger seat to as front as possible while bending the seat back as front as possible. Both of these can dramatically increase the length of items that fit.

On the Model X the second row seat backs don't fold forward (the seat just tilts), so extra space is lost even there, but most dramatic is loosing access to front row for cargo.

So the question is not just about how much space the second row takes when moved forward, it is also about what possibilities are lost when cargo can not extend into the front seat area either between the front seats or through moving front seats forward and tilting the front passenger seat back forward - because the solid second row blocks way. The loss is much more than 10-15 inches.

 

[flar]

The rear edge of the front door in the boxes image looks odd. It's almost as if the door was just sawed off at the desired length and left unfinished. Or am I confused about what I'm looking at?

 

[WarpedOne]

On cars with a folding second row, you can put items that pass onto the front of the car,

Yes, that is true.
What if second row is removable?

 

[1208]

Some people aren't getting the length part of seats folding gives you. It's not about the extra 10ins that the seats will take up it is the fact that the middle seat folded allows for an extra 3ft of length by enabling long objects to be placed between driver and passenger seat to front console or even onto the dashboard. Here...

<-- I know the seats move forward but the principle remains.

Edit. Wrote post before reading AR's similar explanation.

Removing the seats would be too inconvenient to be used. It would take time and effort. You would have to remove the seat before setting of on your travels. What if you decide to get some lumber on the way back from somewhere? You couldn't just leave the seat at the HomeDepot.

 

[Yggdrasill]

It is not about weather seats fold or not, it is about the length of available space.
Not all SUVs are of same length, and there are some with folding seats and less room than some others without folding seats.
This obsession about second row folding seats is absurd. Its a feature, some have it, the others don't.

One aspect is the length. The maximum length diagonally in the trunk seems to end up somewhere in the area of 2.1 meters. That's not great. I'm not sure quite what I've managed in my car, but it's something like 2.5 meters. And that's in a car that's 0.5 meters shorter.

Another aspect is that you won't have a flat floor forward of the 3rd row seat backs. That makes the cargo area inconvenient for carrying a lot of different things.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, that is true.
What if second row is removable?

That is highly unlikely, given the power controls, heating, etc. Also, it's not as convenient as dropping the 2nd row seats in 30 seconds, like you do on basically any other car.

 

[WarpedOne]

What if second row is removable?

What if those seats in second row are removable one by one?