Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

New Tires Drama

billion

Member
Dec 25, 2017
11
5
33715
I'll begin by saying my 2017 Model X is the best, most amazing car I've owned. However, a few weeks ago it developed a front end vibration. The original tires had 26k miles on them. The service center reported a broken sidewall belt and the original tires have no warranty. I'm the only person who drives my car and I'm sure I never hit a pothole or obstacle that would have caused a tire issue.The rear tires had plenty of tread so I agreed to replace the front tires. The service center suggested I also replace the rear tires because, "the Model X is a very heavy car and all the tires may have sidewall fatigue." I agreed. I'm not an expert.

Less than 100 miles on the new tires and the left rear goes flat at 65 mph. I managed to get off the freeway without incident and the Roadside Assistance truck shows up about 75 minutes later with a temporary replacement wheel. He looks at my tire and says, "Hey. You had sidewall failure. Isn't this a new tire?"

In my 55 years of driving, I've never heard of sidewall failure and I think this is probably the first flat tire I've had in 10 years, averaging 18k miles per year. Anybody else dealt with this?
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: faughtz

Doctor X

Member
Sep 7, 2017
209
219
Toronto
I just had the same issue with my 2017 MX75D with 41K km on it (but only about 8-9K km on the original Continental tires). My rear driver’s side tire developed a very mild bulge on the outside side wall and within a week, I had a blow out at low speed. I did not hit a curb, a pothole or debris, this happened on a smooth paved road. No foreign objects were found in the tire. The roadside assistance came within 1.5 hours and put a temporary replacement tire on for me. The SC replaced the tire for $525.00 CAD all in. Considering the conditions in which this happened, I asked if it was possible that the tire was defective since is was fairly new with less than 10K km on it. They told me that I must’ve hit a pothole and that there was no warranty on the tires.
 

Silicon Desert

Active Member
Oct 1, 2018
3,665
3,754
Sparks, / GF1
In my 55 years of driving, I've never heard of sidewall failure and I think this is probably the first flat tire I've had in 10 years, averaging 18k miles per year. Anybody else dealt with this?

I've been driving a little longer than that, and I never heard of it either. Then again, I've never driven a car that weighs almost 6,000 pounds, twice the weight of my other mid-sized car. Maybe that is the reason. And come to think of it, in having driven over 800,000 miles, I have never had a tire failure of any kind except getting a nail in a tire long ago. I must be really lucky.
 

ABC2D

Active Member
Dec 19, 2016
1,034
1,275
Home
I dont think you need to hit a pothole or anything in order for the sidewall belt to break or separate but I do believe OEM Continental Crosscontact LX Sport tires are not very strong or poorly designed. I have my rear tire replaced at 9k miles for the same issue - sidewall belt separation after i complained about severe vibration, and I too never hit anything.

I had to replace my front Crosscontact LX Sport tires at only 13k for being worn out and I drive very slow, never speed, or sprint. I went with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ for the front and will put Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 in the back
 

Floridaman

Member
Jun 14, 2019
6
3
Tampa
I just had the same issue with my 2017 MX75D with 41K km on it (but only about 8-9K km on the original Continental tires). My rear driver’s side tire developed a very mild bulge on the outside side wall and within a week, I had a blow out at low speed. I did not hit a curb, a pothole or debris, this happened on a smooth paved road. No foreign objects were found in the tire. The roadside assistance came within 1.5 hours and put a temporary replacement tire on for me. The SC replaced the tire for $525.00 CAD all in. Considering the conditions in which this happened, I asked if it was possible that the tire was defective since is was fairly new with less than 10K km on it. They told me that I must’ve hit a pothole and that there was no warranty on the tires.
The service center claims I hit something with the new tire and Tesla doesn't warranty road hazards. They were about to replace it at a cost of $400 when I checked with Continental. I have a one year manufacturer's warranty for road hazards even though I bought then through Tesla. I'll be heading to a Continental dealer for a replacement.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
20,014
24,777
Texas
I'll begin by saying my 2017 Model X is the best, most amazing car I've owned. However, a few weeks ago it developed a front end vibration. The original tires had 26k miles on them. The service center reported a broken sidewall belt and the original tires have no warranty. I'm the only person who drives my car and I'm sure I never hit a pothole or obstacle that would have caused a tire issue.The rear tires had plenty of tread so I agreed to replace the front tires. The service center suggested I also replace the rear tires because, "the Model X is a very heavy car and all the tires may have sidewall fatigue." I agreed. I'm not an expert.
There's something very wrong here, first because there are no belts in the sidewall, and second the only way to have "sidewall fatigue" (in recently purchased tires) is to run them at very low pressures, or lower than specified pressures in tires that have more miles on them. The "heavy vehicle" excuse is garbage because the tires are sized for that vehicle (unless you've been severely overloading your X or installed undersized tires).

However, with no pictures, it's not possible to say more.

Always ensure that the pressure in your tires first thing in the morning before driving more than one mile SLOWLY is at least as much as the vehicle placard pressure. In hot weather increase by four psi or to the maximum shown on the tires sidewall, whichever is lower. There are exceptions to this, but they are not applicable for most X driving conditions.

Potholes cause pinch shock damage, not fatigue (Okay, if it doesn't immediately cause a flat, and you continue to run on it it will fatigue and rupture eventually). You can easily see this as one (or two if severe, looks like 二) circumferential ruptures in the tire's sidewall. It's actually possible to hit a pothole and not know it. Tire pressure is your main defense against unexpected potholes.

If you still have the tires, take them to Discount Tire (or the equivalent in your area) and see if they will do anything. Actual tire defects almost always happen very early in the tire's life, but you may get road hazard or tread life warranty from a tire dealer.

Also, the new tires should have gone on the back.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
20,014
24,777
Texas
Your inflation advice seems unfounded. The tires should be inflated to the pressure stated for the car on the door jam when cold in all cases. In warm weather the sun heats the pavement more than in cooler weather making the tire hotter than in cold weather. So I would never inflate to higher pressures in warm weather.
That's actually wrong. The enemy of tires is heat, not pressure. As the car is driven flexing heats up the tire while air flowing past cools it down. Eventually it reaches a state where the heat buildup and cooling are equal. This is known as thermal equilibrium. In hot weather there is less cooling so the tire should be inflated additionally to compensate. In very cold weather, tire inflation is done indoors with warm air from the compressor. Going outside lowers the pressure of the tire so it can become underinflated, so additional pressure is need here to compensate as well.

In addition every tire pressure recommendation is based on a set of assumptions, change the variables and the pressure should change. One of the assumptions is that the ambient temperature in the morning before you drive is 18C (65F). The charts show that if the high of the day is 38C (100F) four psi should be added (vehicle placard pressure of 40 psi). What you are trying to do is limit the heat buildup by adding the pressure that would be added by flexing (the flexing will up the tire by quite a bit, perhaps even to the degradation stage).
 

LCR1

Active Member
Oct 24, 2017
1,349
1,173
Houston
Your inflation advice seems unfounded. The tires should be inflated to the pressure stated for the car on the door jam when cold in all cases. In warm weather the sun heats the pavement more than in cooler weather making the tire hotter than in cold weather. So I would never inflate to higher pressures in warm weather.

Depends, we actually add air to tires to drop the temperature. it's most prevalent in racing when the tire flexes, it's the flexing that causes heat more than contact with the pavement. If your suspension is flexing so is the tire carcass, add air and you increase tire stiffness and reduce flex, tire runs cooler. When it's cold out we drop pressure to get more flex and allow the tire to heat up to operating temp
 

LCR1

Active Member
Oct 24, 2017
1,349
1,173
Houston
While none of the facts you state are wrong the conclusions don't necessarily follow. Please provide a reference for the inflation pressures that you claim.

One fact I do know is that inflating the tires to a pressure other than the value recommended by the maker can change the handling characteristics and make the car unsafe.

If you are racing, you are on your own. Obviously that is very different from normal operation.

It's actually no different, whether you're racing or on a Sunday cruise the tire doesn't care, if it flexes it's going to generate heat. Every bump or turn will create flex and therefore heat. The only difference is the operating temperature, a racing compound rubber will have a very narrow range of operating temperature and it's very high. While a road going tire will have a much wider range of temperature and it's considerably lower. This is why you have all season, summer tires and even specific categories of summer tires, hint: those summer tires don't like the cold, yet they're still a legal road going tire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jerry33

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
20,014
24,777
Texas
While none of the facts you state are wrong the conclusions don't necessarily follow. Please provide a reference for the inflation pressures that you claim.
Well, there's the tire manual sitting on my desk with the inflation pressure vs. temperature. I'll see if I can find a public one.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
20,014
24,777
Texas
Or just google any temperature/pressure chart.
Also we can do a thought exercise: placard pressure 45, Set one tire to 41, one at 45, and another at 49. Day high is 40C (104F). After an hour or two of highway speed driving, All three tires will be about 53/54 psi as they reach thermal equilibrium**. However the one that started at 41 will be much hotter than the one at 49.

** Tires typically have an 8% pressure increase when driving at North American highway speeds, but might be as high as 15% if there is a big temperature difference between morning and afternoon temperatures. In other words, they're all going to reach the same pressure eventually, so it's better to start high and avoid the excessive heat buildup which is really bad for tires.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
20,014
24,777
Texas
I would need to see a tire or car manufacturer recommending this approach. While it is true that significant temperature differences will make a tire degrade more quickly, the key word there is "significant". Your thought experiment uses no measured data. You also use an unproven assumption, that the "equilibrium" will be at the same pressure for all three cases.

Starting with an inflation of 49 psi instead of 45 on a summer day sounds to me like it will end up with a higher pressure at operating temperature which deforms the shape of the tread and changes the handling characteristics of the car. I have had tires installed at the wrong pressure and thought they had given me bad tires the vehicle handled so poorly. I stopped to check the pressure and let it down to the correct value and the vehicle started handling properly again.

Unfortunately, most of these kind of tests are consider proprietary by the tire manufacturers. But I've followed many of them and that's what happens. The end pressure ends up being very close.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
20,014
24,777
Texas
Even if they consider their test results proprietary, they would certainly make recommendations to their users about "proper" tire inflation. Any references there?
They do if you can get ahold of an actual engineer. Because low inflation is rampant, the focus is on getting to at least the vehicle placard pressure.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
20,014
24,777
Texas
Even if they consider their test results proprietary, they would certainly make recommendations to their users about "proper" tire inflation. Any references there?
 

Attachments

  • pressure.jpg
    pressure.jpg
    53.1 KB · Views: 27

psgabin

Member
Jan 9, 2016
121
38
livingston, nj
if you’ve had a failure on your continental tires go to Continental‘s website and carefully read the warrantee Tesla does not tell you that as an OEM tire they have a full replacement guarantee not called a warrantee and will replace the tire at no charge I have done this after Tesla replace my tires and I read the warrantee from Continental and Tesla refunded me the full price for the tire after showing them a copy of the written warranty you can also called Continental and they will explain it to you this was for a sidewall puncture that was my fault but with in a year of buying the car/tires
 
  • Like
Reactions: Floridaman

LCR1

Active Member
Oct 24, 2017
1,349
1,173
Houston
I would need to see a tire or car manufacturer recommending this approach. While it is true that significant temperature differences will make a tire degrade more quickly, the key word there is "significant". Your thought experiment uses no measured data. You also use an unproven assumption, that the "equilibrium" will be at the same pressure for all three cases.

Starting with an inflation of 49 psi instead of 45 on a summer day sounds to me like it will end up with a higher pressure at operating temperature which deforms the shape of the tread and changes the handling characteristics of the car. I have had tires installed at the wrong pressure and thought they had given me bad tires the vehicle handled so poorly. I stopped to check the pressure and let it down to the correct value and the vehicle started handling properly again.

You can see for yourself in person.


https://www.amazon.com/EEZ-RV-Products-EEZTire-TPMS-Monitoring/dp/B009BEGV6S

I run them on the truck, trailers, and RV. I can see the temp and pressure of each tire and the higher the pressure (more air packed in the tire) before departure, the less the heat effects it. You're only considering boyle's law and glossing over conservation of energy or perhaps just specific energy required. If you have more air you need more heat to raise the temperature, the tires have the same contact with the road in general so you're getting the same friction and the same heat transfer, the tire with more air will have less of a temperature increase and therefore less of a pressure increase. To compound on that, the tire with more air will have less flex in the carcass/ sidewall and therefore less internal friction and less heat generated. Less heat generated means less pressure increased. So in both cases the tire with more air will stay cooler simply because there's more mass you're trying to heat up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jerry33

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
20,014
24,777
Texas
I have no idea why you are pointing to an Amazon vendor.

I agree that a tire that starts out with a higher pressure will have less heat buildup and so less pressure increase. That does not mean it will end up with the same pressure as a lower starting pressure tire.
It's more the other way, the tire starting with lower pressure will end up with close to the same pressure as the tire that started with higher pressure once both tires have achieved thermal equilibrium. However the tire that started with lower pressure will be far hotter. The cooler the tire is, the longer it will last (other factors, such as alignment, being equal).
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top