I would bet the firmware just bypasses some sort of error/issue with the J1772 adapter. They are probably still trying to determine the real issue. Given that Hilton is buying 20k of these, I hope they get it sorted.
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New "Universal Wall Connector" doesn't charge the Rivian.
- Thread starter asimo3089
- Start date
Hilton will be fine. Tesla's unpaid beta-testing department is in full effect in this thread. Without us, they'd have continued to presume it was a hardware issue. They asked many of us to ship them back. It wasn't until we identified it as firmware that fix was pushed. Frustrating customer service experience, but kudos to the dev team there.
We know that older firmware (23.9.0) used to work with Rivians. Only updates to newest firmware broke things. So, they probably can't "fix" things without undoing/reverting all of the changes they made since that old release. Another clue is that the firmware name looks to reference a SHA commit hash. 3cae3fb. A commit hash is kinda like a "point in time" in a codebase. So, my bet is that they have reverted us back to a point in time before they broke Rivian/Nissan compatibility. We're out on a branch of the codebase that doesn't have the latest improvements, but IS compatible with Rivian/Nissan. Just an educated guess.
We know that older firmware (23.9.0) used to work with Rivians. Only updates to newest firmware broke things. So, they probably can't "fix" things without undoing/reverting all of the changes they made since that old release. Another clue is that the firmware name looks to reference a SHA commit hash. 3cae3fb. A commit hash is kinda like a "point in time" in a codebase. So, my bet is that they have reverted us back to a point in time before they broke Rivian/Nissan compatibility. We're out on a branch of the codebase that doesn't have the latest improvements, but IS compatible with Rivian/Nissan. Just an educated guess.
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Yep I get that but why would hardware replacements work without being on this firmware version? I would bet its a hardware issue/error with the J1772 adapter that they are either bypassing with this interim fix or replacing hardware which also fixes the issue.
Then why can users bypass the adapter in the TUWC with an external 3rd party J3400->J1772 adapter and not have the issue?
As discussed earlier in the thread, there can be various reasons for this, such as 3rd party adapters that "trick" the TUWC into thinking it's plugged into a Tesla. Or, the Tesla adapter could have some special setup that makes it behave differently for whatever reason.
It's all just speculation anyway. Firmware updates could be working around a hardware issue or could be fixing a software issue. It's not even clear we'll ever find out with certainty.
We know at least some of the aftermarket adaptors have circuitry in them to trick the WC into charging. This is based on various instruction manuals. I have two different ones and one mentions it outright, one hints at it.
Now Tesla, with complete control of the box, would likely want to save money and make the thing as simple as possible. Much like the J1772->Tesla adapter provided with Tesla cars. They have control of the entire unit so it should be doable for them. And since when has Tesla added anything extra that they don't think is needed (rain sensor, temp sensor, USS are current examples).
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The third party ones aren't fully passive. They are designed to be used for Tesla destination chargers so are designed to trick the wall connector to believe the car is a Tesla. The Magic Dock one likely is fully passive, which is why you have to set in the software setup to charge non-Teslas.
Tesla pushed the HEAD (3CAE3FBA856679)-3cae3fb firmware to my TUWC. Unfortunately, it only partially fixes the problems with charging a VW e-Golf. My car will accept an immediate charge, though it takes a long time (over 2 minutes) for the charging to start after the initial plugging in. This behavior is quite different from my experience with all other EVSEs, which start charging my e-Golf immediately. As others have experienced, if I plug the connector in, disconnect, and immediately re-plug, the charging starts within seconds, with no delay.
However, the TUWC refuses to be able to charge my car for a timed charging event, whether initiated by the vehicle or via the time settings through the Tesla app. As it currently stands, the TUWC is worse than a "dumb" EVSE, since a dumb EVSE will work with my car's e-Manager to provide a timed charging event. This is really an issue that Tesla needs to fix!
However, the TUWC refuses to be able to charge my car for a timed charging event, whether initiated by the vehicle or via the time settings through the Tesla app. As it currently stands, the TUWC is worse than a "dumb" EVSE, since a dumb EVSE will work with my car's e-Manager to provide a timed charging event. This is really an issue that Tesla needs to fix!
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Did you set it to non-Tesla in the setup? That sounds a lot like it is still in Tesla mode, where it will try Tesla and then only switch to J1772 after that fails.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Yes, I am referring to whatever option besides from the Tesla one. After the update, did you check if it might have reset to the default mode?
I will check it out to confirm. I am still befuddled by Tesla's stumbles on this product. The company that brought you the EV cannot build an SAE J1772 charger? ( Well, I know it is more than that, but still...)
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
J1772 unfortunately allows enough gray area that full compatibility isn't a given and actual testing with a variety of vehicles is required. Tesla previously didn't have to develop for J1772 vehicles and most J1772 EVSEs developers instead would test for Teslas (given they are the most popular EV) so Tesla had been pampered a bit.
That said, similar problems didn't seem to have been reported on the Wall Connectors with permanent J1772 connectors, so it may just have to do with the Magic Dock and Tesla still having some leftover dual mode logic even if you commission it as "All Vehicles" and use the J1772 adapter. Perhaps they really need to add a "Non Tesla" mode, where it sticks to J1772 even when using it on a Tesla, even though that is still sort of a bandaid, given ideally it can use Tesla mode when not using the J1772 connector.
Yeah, that's strange. J1772 has been around for a very long time now.
...except that Tesla did develop for J1772 vehicles. They sold a product that was for exactly that.
Yes, that. So since they sold a J1772 station before that could do proper communication, I find it really strange that they are suddenly incapable of it.
Does the UWC know if the J1772 adapter is being used? If not, then the UWC likely has to default to Tesla mode and when plugged, waits to receive digital data from a Tesla before reverting to J1772. If the timeout is too long, the car might assume that the EVSE is broken and stop signaling for power.
Tesla may be trying to trim the timeout, but unless J1772 has a spec for the maximum delay between signaling and receiving power, Tesla may never be able to satisfy all cars.
If the UWC does know when the J1772 adapter has been removed from the unit, then they have no excuse. They could simply revert to J1772 by default, which they certainly know how to do.
I have noticed (at least, prior to the latest firmware patch) that there was an audible click (presumably from a relay) coming from inside the wall connector, when the J1772 button was pushed on the plug. So, it would seem that the TUWC is monitoring the button on the connector, which I think is required for the J1772 to stop current when someone pulls the plug while charging (though most cars lock the pin during the charge). It should know then, when the J1772 plug is removed from the TUWC (requiring the button to be pressed), that the unit is going to a non-Tesla vehicle.
I think Tesla should have never tried to be too cute on this by trying to use the Tesla protocol at all. They made a J1772 station before that spoke the J1772 protocol perfectly. And their J1772 to Tesla plug adapter that is included with all their cars is passive and passes the J1772 communication through to the cars without a hitch.
They should have just stuck with the J1772 protocol with this and pass it through regardless of whether it's using the adapter or not. Then it could have worked fine from the start.
They should have just stuck with the J1772 protocol with this and pass it through regardless of whether it's using the adapter or not. Then it could have worked fine from the start.
I suspect they are doing this because with a Powerwall+Wall Connector your Cybertruck can be an add-on battery for your home, no extra equipment needed: https://www.tesla.com/powershare
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