Newb Q--why must I use the brake pedal at all?

[viper driver]

Took delivery of my SR yesterday. Love it. Took me less than 15 minutes to get used to regenerative braking and one pedal driving. So....why won't the car completely stop with regen? Why make me use the brake pedal for only 4mph til 0, then hold and I can remove my foot from the brake?

What if....regen or even command the brakes and come to a stop itself if I let off the accelerator. if I want to continue to slowly drive 4mph, I could just press the accelerator a touch.

I'm hooked on the car. I'm hooked on one foot driving. I'm ready to abandon the brake pedal entirely for all but emergencies. Why must I use it? I'm sure this was discovered in 2012 and someone has a great answer. I tried search.

 

[Kilotango74]

Took delivery of my SR yesterday. Love it. Took me less than 15 minutes to get used to regenerative braking and one pedal driving. So....why won't the car completely stop with regen? Why make me use the brake pedal for only 4mph til 0, then hold and I can remove my foot from the brake?

What if....regen or even command the brakes and come to a stop itself if I let off the accelerator. if I want to continue to slowly drive 4mph, I could just press the accelerator a touch.

I'm hooked on the car. I'm hooked on one foot driving. I'm ready to abandon the brake pedal entirely for all but emergencies. Why must I use it? I'm sure this was discovered in 2012 and someone has a great answer. I tried search.

Not sure if there is a reason other than Tesla designed it this way. The only pure EV I have driven is the BMW i3 and it has a fairly strong regen, but not enough to eliminate the use of the brake pedal entirely in my experience.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Took delivery of my SR yesterday. Love it. Took me less than 15 minutes to get used to regenerative braking and one pedal driving. So....why won't the car completely stop with regen? Why make me use the brake pedal for only 4mph til 0, then hold and I can remove my foot from the brake?

What if....regen or even command the brakes and come to a stop itself if I let off the accelerator. if I want to continue to slowly drive 4mph, I could just press the accelerator a touch.

I'm hooked on the car. I'm hooked on one foot driving. I'm ready to abandon the brake pedal entirely for all but emergencies. Why must I use it? I'm sure this was discovered in 2012 and someone has a great answer. I tried search.

Turn off creep (there are various safety reasons you might not want to do this, however - that is a whole separate debate), have perfect timing and the right situation (flat or uphill) and you won’t need to use the brakes. It’s definitely possible to come to a complete stop without using the brakes.

It’s good to actuate the brakes at low speed frequently to make sure rust/liquid does not build up. It would probably be possible for Tesla to make the regen stronger at low speed, but that is not what they want to do.

 

[Magnets!]

Agree with Alan, turn off Creep. Much more natural to come to a stop. Takes another day to adapt to, but improves the car in my opinion and probably saves a small amount of energy.

 

[ratsbew]

I'm a big fan of having to use the brake pedal to come to a complete stop and here's why: It trains your brain to remember that the brake pedal is there. If regen braking was used in 99% of cases than your instincts might not be to press the brake pedal when there is an emergency stop (especially for a young driver who maybe never drove a gas car). By requiring you to use the brake pedal it conditions you to use the brake.

Also, it keeps rust off of the rotors.

 

[Snow Drift]

How much regen is there really under 5 mph in slow traffic or a parking lot? Probably not much. So, you need to use the calipers.

And lawyers.

 

[Knightshade]

The motor on the Model 3 can't regen down to 0- there's some fairly detailed tech explanations why out there if you want to find em

 

[Nocturnal]

I'm a big fan of having to use the brake pedal to come to a complete stop and here's why: It trains your brain to remember that the brake pedal is there. If regen braking was used in 99% of cases than your instincts might not be to press the brake pedal when there is an emergency stop (especially for a young driver who maybe never drove a gas car). By requiring you to use the brake pedal it conditions you to use the brake.

Also, it keeps rust off of the rotors.

This. I really don't like the concept of true "1 pedal" driving. Our brains need to be reminded that left peddle = stop.

 

[ewoodrick]

Tesla doesn't support 1 pedal driving. I only think that Nissan supports it. It's in the 2018 and newer Leafs. My wife loves it.

 

[Scott7]

Agree with the OP. This is one of the few things I prefer about my i3 vs my Model 3.

 

[seattlite2004]

Tesla doesn't support 1 pedal driving. I only think that Nissan supports it. It's in the 2018 and newer Leafs. My wife loves it.

All Bolts regen to a full stop...so true one pedal driving for all Bolts.

 

[remlemasi]

The motor on the Model 3 can't regen down to 0- there's some fairly detailed tech explanations why out there if you want to find em

^ This is the real reason.

 

[viper driver]

^ This is the real reason.

I'm not actually wanting it to regen down to zero. I just want the effect, I don't care how it works. I know it can and will brake for me sometimes using the actual hydraulic brakes, true? If it thinks I'm going to crash? I just want that same feature, applied at 4mph until 0 when slowing. This would also alleviate the "need to keep the brakes used occasionally" argument, as they'd be used at every stop, just by the car not the driver.

The "you'd forget how to use the brake pedal" argument is a really good one. I can live with that rationale. Tesla is maybe saving me from myself, by making me use the brake at every stop, in order to remind me that it's there and I can press it if I need to stop quickly.

Still, I advocate a "reverse creep" mode. It'd apply the brakes for me at 4mph, in the same amount of deceleration as regen has given me from 45 down to 4. Then, it'd hold the brakes for me while stopped until I pressed accel again.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The motor on the Model 3 can't regen down to 0- there's some fairly detailed tech explanations why out there if you want to find em

I guess it depends on your definition of "regen." It may well be that it doesn't actually make SENSE (meaning, scavenge energy) to "regen" to a halt, but of course there is no reason why Tesla could not set up the car to provide braking force from the motor all the way to 0! If they did, it would probably waste a little energy, though. Which would not be "regenerating" energy. So would not be regen, and would be counterproductive. But it would stop the car. I assume this is what you were referring to.

For the purposes of this conversation, it would certainly be possible to have the car come to a complete halt using just the motor, as many other EVs do, without application of the brakes, but Tesla has chosen not to, for various good technical reasons.

In most cases, assuming you are not philosophically opposed to creep, you can come to a complete halt without using the brakes when you turn creep off. Obviously not as easy to do as in some of these other EVs, but it is the ultimate in efficiency to do this successfully.

 

[jim0266]

See Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica

 

[Kmartyn]

Tesla doesn't support 1 pedal driving. I only think that Nissan supports it. It's in the 2018 and newer Leafs. My wife loves it.

I love it too. It combines brake and regen beautifully, even on a hill. Brake is just for emergencies. I will need to adjust when my M3 arrives.

 

[Kmartyn]

See Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica

This article is a little out of date, we now know that in addition to switched reluctance, they also use the Halbach effect.

 

[coleAK]

Also remember that regen is limited highly even when the car has been sitting at 55 F. My garage is heated to 55F and every morning now I get the limited regen warning. I only switched regen low to normal last week since the roads were finally ice free. Key word were as since Wednesday at 18” and counting.

 

[remlemasi]

I'm not actually wanting it to regen down to zero. I just want the effect, I don't care how it works. I know it can and will brake for me sometimes using the actual hydraulic brakes, true? If it thinks I'm going to crash? I just want that same feature, applied at 4mph until 0 when slowing. This would also alleviate the "need to keep the brakes used occasionally" argument, as they'd be used at every stop, just by the car not the driver.

The "you'd forget how to use the brake pedal" argument is a really good one. I can live with that rationale. Tesla is maybe saving me from myself, by making me use the brake at every stop, in order to remind me that it's there and I can press it if I need to stop quickly.

Still, I advocate a "reverse creep" mode. It'd apply the brakes for me at 4mph, in the same amount of deceleration as regen has given me from 45 down to 4. Then, it'd hold the brakes for me while stopped until I pressed accel again.

Ah understood. Personally, I would not want the friction brakes to automatically take over once regen lessens at ~4mph (as you say) as this would be totally counterintuitive. It would make things difficult circling a parking lot at low speeds. Best-case would be for Tesla to enable significant regen down to 0mph, but for technical reasons it's not supported. Regen down to 0mph was available in my i3, and true one-pedal driving was awesome. Really do miss it.

See quote below from the article linked above:

So, the first puzzle piece in the theory that Tesla has put a switched reluctance motor in the Model 3 is the magnets. We know they’re in there, and now we know that one of the latest breakthroughs in motor design is the inclusion of rare-earths in the stator of the reluctance machine. This is huge. It has brought the reluctance machine out of mothballs!

Another clue that the Model 3 motor is not using those rare-earths in a conventional permanent-magnet motor design is that the car does not do regen all the way down to 0 miles per hour. For example, the Bolt has a conventional 3-phase PM motor which allows it to do regen to 0 MPH. I saw this for myself last year when I test drove a Bolt — you can stop without applying the brakes. We’re calling this puzzle piece #2.

 

[mswlogo]

I'm a big fan of having to use the brake pedal to come to a complete stop and here's why: It trains your brain to remember that the brake pedal is there. If regen braking was used in 99% of cases than your instincts might not be to press the brake pedal when there is an emergency stop (especially for a young driver who maybe never drove a gas car). By requiring you to use the brake pedal it conditions you to use the brake.

Also, it keeps rust off of the rotors.

That’s a great point.

Drives me nuts when I see posts that say they almost got into an accident because they had no or low regen. You should be prepared to instinctively use the brakes at any time.

I barely notice if I have high or low regen. I just automatically adjust without thinking about it.