Sorry for the simplistic questions. No car yet, no models available until last month here on LI to test drive then my test got crammed into 30 minutes because they double booked!
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Newbie: What to order with wall charger.
- Thread starter docdeb27
- Start date
Ok. So sorry to bother with questions on a site for "questions". I have read it, twice. Some things are not instinctual, clear or apparent unless you have seen the actual car. Thankfully, most tesla owners are not so snooty sounding. I did preface with I'm a 60+ y/o female not tech/car sharp. Again, just pass my posts on by.
Graffi
Member
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I highly recommend that when the Electrician does the install for the Tesla HPWC you also have them install a 240v NEMA 14-50 outlet next to it. You even may want a switch installed to give power to one or the other so you are using the same Circuit Breaker.
Graffi
Member
Getting it installed at the same time is much cheaper than have the electrician come back again to do a new install for the 14-50.
Now you ask, why do you need a 14-50 if you have a HPWC? Nice to have if:
- The HPWC fails to work and you need to use the provided mobile charging connector.
- You get another EV that is not a Tesla and you wish to charge it also, or a friend/family member visits in an EV other than Tesla and they need a charge.
- A friend/family member visits in an RV and they wish to Plug In while they are there.
- You feel the need to hobby with a wielder or other electrical tool that needs 240v.
- You feel like Griswold next Christmas and want to really outdo the rest of the Neighbors with lights.
Worth noting however that Tesla stations will often charge the long range Model 3 faster though, as do Clipper Creek J1772s for that matter.
eprosenx
Active Member
So I typically would NOT put these on the same circuit. A 14-50 receptacle can not be on a circuit greater than 50a, but a wall connector can take up to a 100a circuit. To max out a M3 LR you need at least a 60a circuit.
I installed my Wall Connector on a 60a circuit for that reason and I separately installed a 14-50 on a 50a circuit.
Other than the redundancy reason, I also installed the 14-50 so I could have the option to charge outside my garage or inside of it. The 14-50 is inside and the wall connector outside.
My load on my 200a service was low enough I could probably support both at once, but my logic in the load calculations was that I could argue they would be “non-coincident” loads - so only one would operate at a time. Now, it is unclear if this would have held up without an interlock switch, but I got an inspector who signed everything off in just a couple of minutes, so he did not seem to care.
Keep in mind that the UMC when fed by any 14-50 is limited to 32 amps (~30 mph charge rate). Why? It was explained to me that a few (very few?) RV Park operators only put their 14-50s on 40 amp breakers. Current codes limit circuits to 80% of rated value for continuous use (charging a Tesla is continuous use). 80% of 40 amps is 32 amps, so the UMC design is being conservative. On the other hand, the HPWC will charge an extended battery M3 at 48 amps, which is the most KW you're going to get into your M3 with anything short of a Supercharger. Here's an interesting question - what would you get if you hard-wired up your HPWC to a 14-50 male plug, configured the HPWC for a 50 amp breaker, and plugged it into a 14-50 that's correctly wired for 50 amps? Would the M3 draw the full 80%=40 amps?
Yes, that's correct. The wall connector has capability up to higher than that, so if you set it for that right level, a 50A circuit can properly send 40A constant level. And that's just about what I am planning to do later this year. I currently have a 14-50 on a 50A circuit, using the old mobile connector that can do 40A. But it does get a little warm running at its max level of 40, so I keep it around 32A or so most of the time.
But, since I got a couple of referrals, I'm planning to get a wall connector attached on the end of that circuit instead. With the beefier wiring and such inside, being able to handle more juice, it could handle the full 40A easily without getting warm.
Oh yeah, not out yet, but they have listed the specifications of it to say that. That's probably good to get people being aware of it, that the wall connector wouldn't have any charging speed advantage then on the smaller battery version of the car.
The Gen 1 UMC still gets 40 amps on a 14-50 outlet. The corded MC and the HPWC with attached plug will both do 40 amps as well.
RV parks don't generally use 40A breakers, but can have other issues like old circuit breakers and many of these issues may not be discovered until 15 or more minutes after the car starts charging.
eprosenx
Active Member
So what you need on the road totally depends on your use cases and how prepared you want to be. Some people take *nothing* with them in the car. They rely on charging at home and/or superchargers + destination chargers.
Most will AT LEAST take the J1772 to Tesla adapter with them that comes with the car. This opens up the option to charge at nearly all the public chargers available out there.
Many will take their UMC with them which comes with a NEMA 5-15 and 14-50 adapter. This opens up charging literally anywhere on a regular outlet, but at stupid slow rates (but for weekend trips I have used it successfully - it may take 24 hours + but it will charge!). It also lets you charge at basically any RV park at good speeds.
Then I bought the other six adapters they make for the UMC, but I kind of regret getting all of them. I think there is a more versatile solution. After I bought them I found this solution:
First you get an extension cord for the 14-50: While I wish it were another 5-10 feet longer, it helps with reach to get to a dryer plug (most likely thing you can use) Because this unit has the neutral pin omitted, it can plug directly into a 14-50 or a 14-30 receptacle (which is a modern standard dryer plug). In the "wild" when staying with friends, the dryer is generally your best bet for fast'ish charging.
Heavy-duty NEMA 14-50R extension cord for RVs, EVs, etc., 50 ft.
Then I would get this to go on the end of it. This covers NEMA 5-15 and 5-20 (the second one being key - you will find a lot of 20a capable circuits out their on the road in folks garages or in commercial settings nearly everything is 20a). That lets you go from 12 of charge to 16a of charge. This is a huge increase since you have about 350 watts of baseline draw just to charge, so increasing speed by 33% gives an even larger increase in charge rate.
NEMA 5-15P/5-20P to 14-50R 120V Adapter for EV, 3 ft.
Then I would get this old style dryer adapter as well:
NEMA 10-30P to 14-50R Adapter
You are not allowed to install these old receptacles anymore, but they are super common out there.
So yeah, those last three items are a great option of you want to be well prepared.
Oh, and you could get this also if you think you will charge at an RV site but that does not have the higher amperage hookups (many RV parks only have some sites that can support the 14-50 and others that just have 5-20 and TT-30.
AC WORKS EVSE Charging Adapter RV TT-30P 30 Amp Plug to 50 Amp Electric Vehicle Adapter for Tesla Model S-EVTT30MS - The Home Depot
But again, many here will tell you that you don't need any of this. It just depends on your preferences!
I’ll be the first to say she doesn’t need any of this, unless she plans to take her Model 3 really far off the beaten path, which I kind of doubt given her previous posts. This is a 310 mile range car, and it’s 2018, not 2013. It’s highly unlikely she will charge on the road at anything other than a supercharger, and perhaps a destination charger at a hotel. Sure take the UMC and the adapters it comes with, and the J1772 adapter the car comes with. But don’t make this more complicated than it needs to be with talk of extension cords, adapters, etc. Yes I had all that stuff for my Model S in 2013 but just not necessary any more and may make non-EV enthusiast potential owners hesitant to purchase the Model 3.
SgtTortuga
Member
I would not use any adapter other than the ones that Tesla sells. The adapter that plugs into the UMC tells it how much current to draw. A NEMA 14-50 should have a 50A breaker (except in parts of Canada where it is 40A). A NEMA 14-30 has a 30A breaker and is safe to draw 24A. If you use an add on adapter to plug NEMA 14-50 into a NEMA 14-30 plug, the UMC will attempt to draw 32A which should trip the breaker. If it doesn't trip the breaker, you could be creating a dangerous situation.
The reality is that I think use of the UMC in the wild is going to be very rare.
I'm pretty much in the same camp as eprosenx, above, with a few differences. I guess I'm a boy scout at heart and like to be prepared.
If you're in the other camp & want to travel light, I'd suggest to just carry the UMC and the 3 adapters that come with the car, and add a 50' standard 12 gauge extension cord.
First, absolutely no reason to not carry the J-1772 adapter that the M3 comes with. It's tiny, fits in the glove box, and gives you many Level 2 charging sites. I signed up for a ChargePoint account, which charges for free at some places, and for reasonable $$ at many other locations. There are many other EV charging providers, but ChargePoint has the most charging locations.
That 50' 14-50 extension cord that eprosenx bought weighs a ton, so I opted for this one instead:
Heavy-duty NEMA 14-50R extension cord for Tesla, 20 ft.
It's only 20 feet instead of 50, but it only weighs 10 lbs instead of 23 lbs and it plugs in directly to 14-50, 14-30, and 14-60 receptacles. I added 10-30 to 14-50 and TT-30 to 14-50 adapters. The 20 feet of this cord plus the 20 feet of the UMC gets me 40 feet total.
I added the 6-20 Tesla adapter, specifically because my brother has this 240V outlet in his garage. I built a 25' - 12 awg 240V extension cord to go with it, at a cost of about $30. I also added simple molded L6-20 and L6-30 (locking) adapters that output to the straight plug 6-20 and that will also work with this same 6-20 extension cord. These adapters are pretty cheap and very small. After I built this 240V extension cord, I discovered that evseadapters.com sells one.
I got the 5-20 Tesla adapter, for the reason quoted above by eprosenx. Pretty widespread availability of this outlet and 16 amps is a lot better than 12 at 120 volts. Added a simple molded 5-15 to 5-20 adapter, about $7. Some 20 amp circuits only have standard 120V duplex 5-15 outlets and this adapter gets you the 16 amps out of the circuit. You do have to check the breaker to verify the circuit has a 20 amp breaker before you use this adapter in a standard house duplex outlet. I have one of these outlets in my garage, the only thing on the circuit is the built-in house vac.
Lastly, I carry a 50' 12 awg standard 120V extension cord. Super slow, but plug in anywhere.
There are a handful of other possibles, mainly industrial type 6-50 and 10-50 used for welders and heavy shop equipment. I'm going to forego these adapters, as they are about $75 each and have limited charging possibilities in most situations.
If you're in the other camp & want to travel light, I'd suggest to just carry the UMC and the 3 adapters that come with the car, and add a 50' standard 12 gauge extension cord.
First, absolutely no reason to not carry the J-1772 adapter that the M3 comes with. It's tiny, fits in the glove box, and gives you many Level 2 charging sites. I signed up for a ChargePoint account, which charges for free at some places, and for reasonable $$ at many other locations. There are many other EV charging providers, but ChargePoint has the most charging locations.
That 50' 14-50 extension cord that eprosenx bought weighs a ton, so I opted for this one instead:
Heavy-duty NEMA 14-50R extension cord for Tesla, 20 ft.
It's only 20 feet instead of 50, but it only weighs 10 lbs instead of 23 lbs and it plugs in directly to 14-50, 14-30, and 14-60 receptacles. I added 10-30 to 14-50 and TT-30 to 14-50 adapters. The 20 feet of this cord plus the 20 feet of the UMC gets me 40 feet total.
I added the 6-20 Tesla adapter, specifically because my brother has this 240V outlet in his garage. I built a 25' - 12 awg 240V extension cord to go with it, at a cost of about $30. I also added simple molded L6-20 and L6-30 (locking) adapters that output to the straight plug 6-20 and that will also work with this same 6-20 extension cord. These adapters are pretty cheap and very small. After I built this 240V extension cord, I discovered that evseadapters.com sells one.
I got the 5-20 Tesla adapter, for the reason quoted above by eprosenx. Pretty widespread availability of this outlet and 16 amps is a lot better than 12 at 120 volts. Added a simple molded 5-15 to 5-20 adapter, about $7. Some 20 amp circuits only have standard 120V duplex 5-15 outlets and this adapter gets you the 16 amps out of the circuit. You do have to check the breaker to verify the circuit has a 20 amp breaker before you use this adapter in a standard house duplex outlet. I have one of these outlets in my garage, the only thing on the circuit is the built-in house vac.
Lastly, I carry a 50' 12 awg standard 120V extension cord. Super slow, but plug in anywhere.
There are a handful of other possibles, mainly industrial type 6-50 and 10-50 used for welders and heavy shop equipment. I'm going to forego these adapters, as they are about $75 each and have limited charging possibilities in most situations.
SgtTortuga is spot on.
Don't do any of this customized adapter stuff unless you fully understand exactly what you are doing! One additional BIG gotcha is that when using some of these adapters, DON'T use standard RV style adapters & extension cords, as the wiring for Tesla and other EVs is significantly different from RV wiring, and you can cause very serious electrical problems, including fires. You could also blow up the electrical system in your RV using Tesla/EV adapters.
And, you do have to manually set charging amps to no more than 24 amps whenever you are using -any- of the 30 amp to 14-50 adapters. Set the charging current before you plug in!
Don't do any of this customized adapter stuff unless you fully understand exactly what you are doing! One additional BIG gotcha is that when using some of these adapters, DON'T use standard RV style adapters & extension cords, as the wiring for Tesla and other EVs is significantly different from RV wiring, and you can cause very serious electrical problems, including fires. You could also blow up the electrical system in your RV using Tesla/EV adapters.
And, you do have to manually set charging amps to no more than 24 amps whenever you are using -any- of the 30 amp to 14-50 adapters. Set the charging current before you plug in!
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