Non Tesla brick granny 13A plug chargers?

[eight]

Bob the Tesla (it was named Rolling Thunder on the screen but it seems more of a Bob to me...) will be arriving this week.
Looking at 32a tethered chargers but in the meantime I’ll be bricking it.
Can I use any old type 2 granny charger or does it need to be the Tesla specific one it comes with?
Eg masterplug jobbie from screwfix, or the Kia brick I already have set up for our Soul?
Thanks again, Andy

 

[Medved_77]

Any type 2 grant charger should work although bear in mind, your car should come with the Tesla UMC.

Tesla Mobile Connector (sometimes referred to as a UMC / Universal Mobile Connector) Explained including Gen 1 & Gen 2 differences

 

[Mr Miserable]

I've just had a look at that Screwfix charger - it has a Type 1 socket and you will need a Type 2 socket, so do not buy it.
I believe your Kia Soul requires a Type 1 socket so the Kia brick will be unsuitable for your Tesla.
As @Medved_77 says your Tesla will come with a granny charger (brick), so use that whilst you wait for your 32A wall charger.
You have the issue that one car is Type 1 and the other will be Type 2, so be very careful if you want a tethered charger - you will have to choose whether it has a Type 1 or 2 connection. It may be better to have an untethered wall charger and a separate cable for each car.
There are adapters available but I would spend some time researching this and decide a solution that will best fit your needs.

 

[MadScientist]

As a matter of interest, how long is the granny charger cable that comes with the car?

 

[Arran]

As a matter of interest, how long is the granny charger cable that comes with the car?

6m I believe

 

[MadScientist]

Thanks, with the extension lead I’ve just bought that gives me about 16m to play with. We have a cottage booked for a hol next month and it would make life much easier if I can charge from base.

 

[eight]

Thanks all I should have figured out the type 1 vs type 2 difference myself!
Screwfix have both type 1 and type 2 bricks - am now thinking about getting something similar or a Renault/whatever brick just as a back up.
On reflection I think we may continue with the bricks for the immediate future and see how it goes. Fortunately I’m only 20 mins from Tesla Stockport so could always get a fill up there if it’s allowed.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

You know the car will come with one?

The only no-no is using a Gen 1 Tesla UMC at 32a single phase on other cars because of the way Tesla designed it.

 

[crouchy]

I've just had a look at that Screwfix charger - it has a Type 1 socket and you will need a Type 2 socket, so do not buy it.
I believe your Kia Soul requires a Type 1 socket so the Kia brick will be unsuitable for your Tesla.
As @Medved_77 says your Tesla will come with a granny charger (brick), so use that whilst you wait for your 32A wall charger.
You have the issue that one car is Type 1 and the other will be Type 2, so be very careful if you want a tethered charger - you will have to choose whether it has a Type 1 or 2 connection. It may be better to have an untethered wall charger and a separate cable for each car.
There are adapters available but I would spend some time researching this and decide a solution that will best fit your needs.

They sell type 2 versions too

 

[eight]

You know the car will come with one?

The only no-no is using a Gen 1 Tesla UMC at 32a single phase on other cars because of the way Tesla designed it.

I’m learning!
Have now figured out my car will/should have that Gen 1 UMC with the 32A commando adapter.
So that will probably be the long term home charging solution, along with a frunk-stored type 2 10A plug in brick charger for emergencies.
MK Type B RCBO are out there to suit our consumer unit and it's dead easy to run some 4mm T&E from CU to a switched commando socket by the garage door and trail the lead under the door to the car outside same as we've done with previous EVs, with a showerproof hook and cover for the Tesla-end plug to hang on. Cheap simple 7kw solution.
Thanks all. Many more dumb questions to come... haven't even got the car here yet...

 

[Glan gluaisne]

MK Type B RCBO are out there to suit our consumer unit and it's dead easy to run some 4mm T&E from CU to a switched commando socket by the garage door and trail the lead under the door to the car outside same as we've done with previous EVs, with a showerproof hook and cover for the Tesla-end plug to hang on. Cheap simple 7kw solution.
Thanks all. Many more dumb questions to come... haven't even got the car here yet...

Couple of points.

MK don't, AFAIK, make a Type B RCD characteristic RCBO that will fit any domestic CU. They make a Type A RCD characteristic RCBO, with Type B over current protection, but that's not what is needed to protect a car.

The second point is that, depending on the run, 4mm² may be a bit light. It's normal to use 6mm², even for short runs, either SWA or NYY-J, depending on the mechanical protection requirement for the location. The MIs for most charge points specify that the supply cable is 6mm², and the flexible cable to the car will normally be 6mm² as well. The reason is as much to do with voltage drop as anything else, but it's also a good idea to use hefty cable just because the length of time it will be running at full power is likely to be several hours.

 

[darkNstormy]

I’m learning!
Have now figured out my car will/should have that Gen 1 UMC with the 32A commando adapter.
So that will probably be the long term home charging solution, along with a frunk-stored type 2 10A plug in brick charger for emergencies.
MK Type B RCBO are out there to suit our consumer unit and it's dead easy to run some 4mm T&E from CU to a switched commando socket by the garage door and trail the lead under the door to the car outside same as we've done with previous EVs, with a showerproof hook and cover for the Tesla-end plug to hang on. Cheap simple 7kw solution.
Thanks all. Many more dumb questions to come... haven't even got the car here yet...

I don't think you get a commando adaptor as standard. You have to buy it. You only get an adaptor for a standard UK 3-pin socket.

 

[MrBadger]

Have now figured out my car will/should have that Gen 1 UMC with the 32A commando adapter.

If it is a new car, all new Teslas come with Gen 2 UMC with a '13A' (limited to 10A) standard UK plug. Both the 16A and 32A blue commando dongles are an extra, circa £40 mark.

 

[eight]

It's a 2018 MS so has the Gen 1 brick with 3 pin plug pigtail and a 32a blue commando pigtail too for caravan sites etc.

Couple of points.

MK don't, AFAIK, make a Type B RCD characteristic RCBO that will fit any domestic CU. They make a Type A RCD characteristic RCBO, with Type B over current protection, but that's not what is needed to protect a car.

The second point is that, depending on the run, 4mm² may be a bit light. It's normal to use 6mm², even for short runs, either SWA or NYY-J, depending on the mechanical protection requirement for the location. The MIs for most charge points specify that the supply cable is 6mm², and the flexible cable to the car will normally be 6mm² as well. The reason is as much to do with voltage drop as anything else, but it's also a good idea to use hefty cable just because the length of time it will be running at full power is likely to be several hours.

Thanks. I'll see what cable I've got in the shed - I should have something suitably chunky as I've previously done showers/cookers etc. Run is maybe 5 metres and all internal so I'll cover with plastic conduit same as the existing garage socketry. Will shove existing loads to the right by one space so I can get the EV load next to the main 100A switch.
RCBO - I was looking at 40 Amp 30mA RCBO - MK - Type AC - B Curve as they're stated as Type B. Or are they?

 

[MrBadger]

RCBO - I was looking at 40 Amp 30mA RCBO - MK - Type AC - B Curve as they're stated as Type B. Or are they?

Thats a standard AC type for RCD protection. The B curve relates to the over current protection.

Type B RCD devices seem to be pretty big beasts, typically 3 or 4 modules wide.

 

[cezdoc]

It's a 2018 MS so has the Gen 1 brick with 3 pin plug pigtail and a 32a blue commando pigtail too for caravan sites etc.


Thanks. I'll see what cable I've got in the shed - I should have something suitably chunky as I've previously done showers/cookers etc. Run is maybe 5 metres and all internal so I'll cover with plastic conduit same as the existing garage socketry. Will shove existing loads to the right by one space so I can get the EV load next to the main 100A switch.
RCBO - I was looking at 40 Amp 30mA RCBO - MK - Type AC - B Curve as they're stated as Type B. Or are they?

I have a gen 1 UMC for my (2016) MS which has served me well. I got an untethered Zappi almost a year ago as a "proper" charging solution but in practice between the Zappi and my car I've had more trouble with that than the UMC (which supposedly isn't recommended as a long term charging solution but worked fine for 3 1/2 years). The idea of the untethered Zappi was to allow Type 1 and Type 2 charging if needed (plus use of smart features if Octopus ever get around to installing a Smart meter / or I get solar PV installed). Anyway I digress...

The UMC has worked really well. My first one started throwing errors after about a year and Tesla just replaced it. At the time it was outdoors so I had it in a weather proof box when in use (roughly once a week) - and stowed away when not. Now it's in a garage and nice and dry. I had a 32A commando socket installed with its own circuit breaker/RCD. The 3-pin granny has also worked well with a heavy duty extension cable, the main thing is to ensure the socket you're using doesn't get too hot once the car has been charging for a few minutes - and bear in mind it doesn't have the same protection from just being yanked out of the socket compared with the commando.

One thing to note about the commando is that both 32A and 16A are blue but the latter is smaller and is the sort usually used at campsites. It is possible to wire up / purchase a 32A - 16A commando pigtail but you have to be careful using this as the car will try to pull 32 A by default.

Another thing to note about the Gen 1 UMC is that although the commando socket adapter will typically be locked in when in use, I think you can detach the UMC body from the adaptor while it is live (I haven't tested this but it looks like it's just a couple of sprung lugs holding it in place). So a potential safety/security risk depending where the socket is located.

 

[Adopado]

Another thing to note about the Gen 1 UMC is that although the commando socket adapter will typically be locked in when in use, I think you can detach the UMC body from the adaptor while it is live (I haven't tested this but it looks like it's just a couple of sprung lugs holding it in place). So a potential safety/security risk depending where the socket is located.

I'm pretty sure that though it is not advised to detach the adapter from the UMC when in use nothing will actually go bang!

 

[Glan gluaisne]

It's a 2018 MS so has the Gen 1 brick with 3 pin plug pigtail and a 32a blue commando pigtail too for caravan sites etc.


Thanks. I'll see what cable I've got in the shed - I should have something suitably chunky as I've previously done showers/cookers etc. Run is maybe 5 metres and all internal so I'll cover with plastic conduit same as the existing garage socketry. Will shove existing loads to the right by one space so I can get the EV load next to the main 100A switch.
RCBO - I was looking at 40 Amp 30mA RCBO - MK - Type AC - B Curve as they're stated as Type B. Or are they?

As above, that's a Type AC, and nowadays it's not something I'd fit in any installation, given that so many bits of kit now use switched mode supplies. A Type A (for the RCD part) is really the minimum acceptable for general use now, and the older Type AC units really should be withdrawn IMHO, given the fact that any domestic installation will almost certainly have many devices that may not produce a pure AC leakage current if a fault develops.

Type B RCDs are, as already mentioned, usually quite large, usually 3 or 4 module wide. There's one I've seen that's just a double module width, from Western Automation: Type B & B+ RCDs | Western Automation

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Much more qualified people than I to talk about the house wiring.

The UMC1 is pretty reliable and the 32A Commando socket was actually how Tesla used to set it up about 5 years ago, it was part of the car price. You should get a locking commando socket (so you can't disconnect when in use) and there are some regs around earthing as its been suggested that not all commando sockets are now wired equally, but mine worked fine until I was given a Tesla wall charger.

Just don't be tempted to use the UMC1 in a different make of EV. I think the Zoe is one, its likely to blow fuses, something to do with the way Tesla use the 3 phases of the UMC to car even though the incoming is single phase - confuses the hell out of other cars not expecting 3 phases to be energised. The UMC2 doesn't have that problem as its single phase only.

 

[spooksman]

The UMC2 doesn't have that problem as its single phase only.

So, I have a Tesla UMC2 (I think) as my car was new in May 2020, so I should be ok to use that in our Peugeot e208? Surprisingly, the Peugeot doesn't come with one...

Is there a simple way to know if it is a UMC2?