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Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
In 10,000 miles you will be replacing the 21's tires. Each tire costs about ~ $500, for $2000, you can get four 19's stock rims (used -I paid $750 for mine) and All Season tires (new). Then sell your 21's to some other person who thinks they are cool for $3 to 4K, and pocket the additional $2000.
I didn't realize you had a "D". I'm not trying to "P" you off, I hope you take this constructively... sorry you had the experience you had. I like the look of the 21's too, but worry about what you went through and will be removing them for the winter - and looking at other lighter options.
I didn't realize you had a "D". I'm not trying to "P" you off, I hope you take this constructively... sorry you had the experience you had. I like the look of the 21's too, but worry about what you went through and will be removing them for the winter - and looking at other lighter options.
I've got about 26,000 miles on my car over three years. Several trips over mountain passes. Until about a month ago I was on 21" wheels with Continental Extreme Contacts and I had no problems with blowouts. I offer this simply as a data point and not as an attempt to draw broad conclusions from anecdotal evidence.
My switch to 19" wheels was seasonally motivated and I'll be back to the 21"s when there's no more worry about snow/ice.
As for the other stuff OP brought up. I'm sorry that you had a really stressful situation in your Model S. I would echo what others have said about the Model S being a great road trip car. If you have concerns about this in the future I can recommend the inflatable booster seats mentioned a few posts back, we have some in case we end up bringing friends home in the afternoon after school. They're cheap and easily stored.
Volvo's XC90 has an option for a built-in booster seat and it occurs to me that folks driving those cars might run into a similar situation. I have the rear-facing seats but have found them unsuited for long trips for other reasons (lack of climate control for instance).
Sounds like you should get a Model X in a few months.
My switch to 19" wheels was seasonally motivated and I'll be back to the 21"s when there's no more worry about snow/ice.
As for the other stuff OP brought up. I'm sorry that you had a really stressful situation in your Model S. I would echo what others have said about the Model S being a great road trip car. If you have concerns about this in the future I can recommend the inflatable booster seats mentioned a few posts back, we have some in case we end up bringing friends home in the afternoon after school. They're cheap and easily stored.
Volvo's XC90 has an option for a built-in booster seat and it occurs to me that folks driving those cars might run into a similar situation. I have the rear-facing seats but have found them unsuited for long trips for other reasons (lack of climate control for instance).
Sounds like you should get a Model X in a few months.
mikeash
Active Member
I don't understand the fuss about backup car seats. If you think they are necessary, then you can have them take up no space by having the kids ride in them. That takes up (some of) the second row, and the trunk becomes available for cargo.
If you'd rather use the minivan than switch wheels, that's clearly a valid choice. I just find it odd to complain about flat tires and then refuse to fix the obvious cause.
I agree that if you don't actually want to change anything, the car is probably not a good choice for your road trips. I just don't understand posting this big long thing asking for advice, when you're not willing to change anything.
If you'd rather use the minivan than switch wheels, that's clearly a valid choice. I just find it odd to complain about flat tires and then refuse to fix the obvious cause.
I agree that if you don't actually want to change anything, the car is probably not a good choice for your road trips. I just don't understand posting this big long thing asking for advice, when you're not willing to change anything.
I recently completed a 2100 mile round road trip, and I came away with mixed feelings about using it for long road trips.
On the one hand it really is an ideal road trip car considering how smooth the car drives, and just how silky it is. I'm not sure how to put it any other way. The car makes you want to drive it, and it's not at all exhausting to drive. Sure they can add things like massaging my butt and making me hot chocolate. But, even without that it's pretty darn nice. The Adaptive cruise control is an absolute dream, and the lane keeping does a great job as long as you're not in the right lane. In the right lane it's less than stellar, and it's rather annoying. The heated steering wheel is also an absolute dream, and it's great for those moments when you get into the car during cold weather with freezing hands.
So where does it start to suck?
If you need to get home fairly fast. It's absolutely not intended for someone to go 1200 miles in one day. I drove back from Southern Cali all the way to Seattle on Black Friday and it took me 23 hours. I tried to power nap while supercharging, but that didn't work out so well. In a normal ICE car I could have done it in 18 hours or so.
Trying to get to the superchargers on busy holiday weekends can be a daunting task especially when its black Friday, and the Supercharger is at an Outlet mall. On the way home I stopped off at 8 supercharger and four of them were at Outlet malls. Luckily 2 of them were closed by the time I got to them.
Cold weather is a range killer. When it's 20F out it's like the car has hit a wall.
Speed is a range killer as well, and out in the middle of nowhere the speed limits are quite high. On multiple occasions I passed Tesla's who were driving slow to make it to the next stop. For some it was so bad they were being passed by Semi's. I can't stand to drive that slow so I just made sure to charge more, but that meant spending longer at the supercharger.
I did have an issue with a nail in my tire, but I've driven lots of cars without a spare. I wouldn't have known about it without the new 7.0 firmware though because it was such a tiny leak. Thankfully I found about it in the middle of what must of been automotive land California because there was at least half a dozen tire places within a half mile. It only took about an hour to get the tire repaired.
I should note that I had issues with not being able to get chains, and that altered the timing of the trip a bit. Before the trip I ordered them from the Tesla Store, but they never shipped. When I called to check on them they said they were backordered. To make a long story short I've completely black listed the Tesla Store, and won't be buying anything from them until someone brings them up to the standards the rest of Tesla adheres to. The entire way they approach customer service needs to change, and the way they handle inventory needs to change. They also need to do a better job of taking action to fix things when mistakes happen. They don't do any of that. I understand sometimes they are between a rock and a hard place. Like with the Touch up paint, and the Center Console (which was also a fiasco). So yeah the Tesla Store put a damper on things a bit.
There are drawbacks, but when its all said and done I have no idea why I would have done this trip without the Tesla. That just seems silly. Why would I want to fart across the country?
Oh, and Hwy 1 in Cali was an absolute fun drive with the Tesla. To get me all the way down there in a fairly relaxed state, and then to provide me with such an awesome drive. Not too shabby I must say.
Most importantly when I went back to work on Monday I looked forwards to getting in my car for the drive into work.
On the one hand it really is an ideal road trip car considering how smooth the car drives, and just how silky it is. I'm not sure how to put it any other way. The car makes you want to drive it, and it's not at all exhausting to drive. Sure they can add things like massaging my butt and making me hot chocolate. But, even without that it's pretty darn nice. The Adaptive cruise control is an absolute dream, and the lane keeping does a great job as long as you're not in the right lane. In the right lane it's less than stellar, and it's rather annoying. The heated steering wheel is also an absolute dream, and it's great for those moments when you get into the car during cold weather with freezing hands.
So where does it start to suck?
If you need to get home fairly fast. It's absolutely not intended for someone to go 1200 miles in one day. I drove back from Southern Cali all the way to Seattle on Black Friday and it took me 23 hours. I tried to power nap while supercharging, but that didn't work out so well. In a normal ICE car I could have done it in 18 hours or so.
Trying to get to the superchargers on busy holiday weekends can be a daunting task especially when its black Friday, and the Supercharger is at an Outlet mall. On the way home I stopped off at 8 supercharger and four of them were at Outlet malls. Luckily 2 of them were closed by the time I got to them.
Cold weather is a range killer. When it's 20F out it's like the car has hit a wall.
Speed is a range killer as well, and out in the middle of nowhere the speed limits are quite high. On multiple occasions I passed Tesla's who were driving slow to make it to the next stop. For some it was so bad they were being passed by Semi's. I can't stand to drive that slow so I just made sure to charge more, but that meant spending longer at the supercharger.
I did have an issue with a nail in my tire, but I've driven lots of cars without a spare. I wouldn't have known about it without the new 7.0 firmware though because it was such a tiny leak. Thankfully I found about it in the middle of what must of been automotive land California because there was at least half a dozen tire places within a half mile. It only took about an hour to get the tire repaired.
I should note that I had issues with not being able to get chains, and that altered the timing of the trip a bit. Before the trip I ordered them from the Tesla Store, but they never shipped. When I called to check on them they said they were backordered. To make a long story short I've completely black listed the Tesla Store, and won't be buying anything from them until someone brings them up to the standards the rest of Tesla adheres to. The entire way they approach customer service needs to change, and the way they handle inventory needs to change. They also need to do a better job of taking action to fix things when mistakes happen. They don't do any of that. I understand sometimes they are between a rock and a hard place. Like with the Touch up paint, and the Center Console (which was also a fiasco). So yeah the Tesla Store put a damper on things a bit.
There are drawbacks, but when its all said and done I have no idea why I would have done this trip without the Tesla. That just seems silly. Why would I want to fart across the country?
Oh, and Hwy 1 in Cali was an absolute fun drive with the Tesla. To get me all the way down there in a fairly relaxed state, and then to provide me with such an awesome drive. Not too shabby I must say.
Most importantly when I went back to work on Monday I looked forwards to getting in my car for the drive into work.
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JenniferQ
Active Member
This. Always a joy to get back in and go for another adventure. Especially now that we have THREE clocks!
<sarcasm sign>
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Noooo! Friends don't let friends drive minivans.
For long distance trips, I recommend putting your older kid in the second row, flipping down the jumps seats, and using the full trunk for luggage. The jump seats really are only best for around town (<1 hour drive) I find due to comfort, HVAC, and cargo capacity issues.
ElectricTundra
P85D AP1
I think this depends a lot on the problem. I don't think there is any clutch or gear disengagement system? So when the car is moving the motors are turning. Almost any xmission problem or mechanical motor problem on either end would then keep you on the side of the road. Beyond mechanical problems, I'd think you could cruise OK at a constant speed on one motor but start/stop or anything with frequent speed changes would likely kill the battery rather quickly?
What? You are still thinking in terms of ICE mechanicals. Wheel movement does not force the motor(s) to turn.
green1
Active Member
With the motors connected directly to the wheels by a reduction gear, I'm not sure how it wouldn't. At least in an ICE it could be put in neutral to disengage it. On an EV there is no mechanical neutral, just the electric one where they disconnect power to the motor.
I found that instead of getting to LA in under 5 hours, It took me 7. Instead of grabbing a quick burger I had the most amazing breakfast at Harris ranch and some pleasant coffee at Tejon. I got there actually more relaxed
Yeah, its definitely enjoyable and relaxing when you have time to spare. It's certainly a lot more relaxing for the bladder.
But, when you're really home sick and you just want to get home it's a little bit of an ughh.
Honestly I think that's the issue. Basically at certain size/age/weights (from what I can tell) kids can sit in the third-row seats but aren't big enough to sit in a booster seat. So if somebody has to pack two full car seats into a MS just in case something goes wrong, well that defeats the purpose of the third-row seats, right? In fact in that situation the third-row seats are a distinctly negative feature; they cost you money you aren't taking advantage of, they are adding weight to your car, and they are taking up the under-floor storage space that could have been used for something else.
Now if you are going to be close to home then not a big deal. Or if your children are large enough for a small booster seat as a backup then not as big of a deal either.
Perhaps my first post was unclear (obviously it was?) but I was never complaining about flat tires. I was really just sharing my frustration with the roadside assistance combined with third-row seat situation and looking for advice on how it could have gone better.
I actually did receive great advice mixed in with the more negative posts. I have ordered a great inflatable booster seat that can easily be carried as a backup to the third-row seats. Technically my child is still a little bit too light for it but in an emergency I think it would work. So I did receive and took advice. Additionally when my tires need replacement I'm going to seriously consider aftermarket 20" wheels.
Finally, I see this could be a significant negative aspect of the third-row seats, especially if road trips with kids had been my primary use-case when ordering my MS. Nobody mentioned this possible limitation on any of the threads I have seen (everything I read was about ventilation and safety of the third-row seats). I'm sure a future buyer might appreciate this information.
jgs
Active Member
I think you're right. I briefly considered the third row seats when I was shopping and would have appreciated the information, although in my case I came to the conclusion on my own pretty quickly that I wouldn't need them. One other thing such people might keep in mind – and that did help sway me – is that without the third row seats, you have more trunk space because the well used for the seats isn't occupied. Obvious, yes, but still worth adding to a shopper's checklist IMO.
OK, I'll admit this has been a rocky thread for me. About half of the posts have been positive and many provided useful info, tips, etc. But the other half of the posts were pretty negative in my opinion. It seems my title and/or first post has been misunderstood and it seems to have triggered an automatic "defend Tesla" response in many people. Note that I love my MS, I love Tesla, and I love everything Musk does (he is as close to a hero as I'm likely to have). I'm both a MS owner and a Tesla shareholder, also I'm a big space fan.
Here are some things I did not say and never did say but it seems some people heard these things. Again I never said: it is Tesla's fault that I lost a tire, it is Tesla's fault that I didn't have a good way to get my kids home, the Model S sucks, the Model S sucks for road trips, etc, etc. I never said any of this. I was simply wondering out loud -- is my particular Tesla, which was not purchased for long-distance remote travel, suitable to be used for long-distance remote travel? If I continue to use it as such, are there things I could do to make future issues less of a hassle.
I also was not traumatized... it was an expensive (~$1000) and eye-opening incident that got me thinking -- it could have been worse (timing & location) and could I have been better prepared? Additionally, could Tesla Roadside Assistance have been better prepared? The answer to all of this is "yes". Yes I could have been more prepared, and next time I will be. And perhaps this will help somebody else be more prepared, or help somebody else think about this before ordering their MS.
Most of the responses focused on the 21" wheels which was not the important part of my post. I wasn't complaining that I got a flat on my 21" tires. I already knew it was more likely than on 19" wheels. I was not blaming Tesla. I wasn't looking for suggestions on how to avoid getting a flat tire, specifically since I know you can't completely avoid that risk. As I've said; I've had 3-4 flat tires on wheels that make the 19" rims seem crazy risky, so a flat tire can happen in any situation. The suggestions were pretty much 100% either (1) replace your wheels and tires with 19" versions or (2) carry a spare in your frunk (which won't fit). But since I wasn't asking how to avoid flat tires it wasn't relevant to me and it came across as dismissive. In researching the purchase I did read a lot about 19" vs. 21". I saw many posts from people who had and were happy with 19" wheels as well as many posts from people who had and were happy with 21" wheels. It did seem that geography/weather was the primary factor -- drivers in New England preferred 19" and drivers in warmer weather were happy with 21". I do live in the south and rarely encounter potholes. Additionally both me and my wife really preferred the look of the vehicle with the 21" wheels. So that's why I went with 21".
In hindsight, I really should have considered aftermarket 20" wheels more. I don't think I ran across that option being discussed as much as 19" vs. 21". I also didn't realize the MS didn't have a spare tire until very late in my research after I'd decided on the 21" wheels. As somebody who has always had spare tires I don't think it really clicked until now that perhaps 21" tires plus road trips plus no spare tire might be a risky combination. It has made me consider spending ~$2k on 20" wheels and tires before I spend ~$2k on new 21" tires when I need them.
Many responses seemed dismissive of the challenge of being stranded with children for which you don't have a car seat. Although there are other vehicles with rear-facing jumpseats there are few, if any, that have built-in car seats. So 99.9% of drivers on the road have never encountered the situation I was just in because they could never have been in that situation. In all of my research before purchasing I never saw this possibility brought up, only discussions on temperature and safety of the rear seats. Tesla Roadside Assistance didn't seem particularly well set up to handle the situation either. It makes me wonder if I'm one of the first people to ever be in this situation.
Also I wonder if some of the dismissive posts are from people who have never dealt with the size and inconvenience of modern carseats for young children. Specifically the solution of "just toss in an extra car seat" is not very feasible. Imagine if both of my kids were in the rear jump seats -- am I really to bring along two extra car seats just in case? That would take about 50% of the storage in the rear seat, leaving me only the (small) frunk and about 50% of the back seat for other items (luggage, strollers, pack&plays, etc). It just isn't practical. Now if the children are big/old enough the inflatable booster seat is a GREAT option that I'm really glad I learned about in this thread.
The other suggestions about not using the jumpseats on long-distance trips are reasonable, however it is definitely not how I envisioned using the MS when I purchased it. Part of the value of buying the rear jumpseats is that was one fewer carseat I need to purchase and store. It also means I can have full access to my rear seat without having to install/remove car seats on a regular basis (an activity I find very annoying). But, yes, I could in the future remove a car seat from our other vehicle and install in in the rear seat of the MS. One issue is my wife doesn't like the kids to be on the outboard seats and the MS doesn't have LATCH on the center seat, so basically I'd have to have two car seats on the two outer seats which is doable but not preferred for my wife. Also the folded-down third-row seats are taking up valuable cargo space.
Basically my conclusion is -- if your kids are big/old enough to use the small booster seats (especially a collapsible/inflatable one) then the jumpseats may be great for long trips with the booster seats as backups (temperature permitting). But if your kids are small enough to require full car seats then the third-row seating is a liability for a road trip; it adds expense to the car, weight, and takes up valuable storage space. Unless you are willing to take the risk that you could be stranded with no easy way to get your kids home without backup carseat options. Of course eventually both of my children will be big enough to sit in the jump seats and use the inflatable booster seat as a backup and then I think my MS will be an ideal roadtrip vehicle.
I do believe there are some enhancements that Tesla could make to their Roadside Assistance program that would help make the third-row seats a much better option for long-distance journeys. I have sent these suggestions to Tesla but I'll post them here: (1) Tesla tow partners could carry two carseats for this situation or (2) Tesla could partner with Uber to add the feature to request an Uber with a car seat or two or (3) Tesla could partner with something like Enterprise to be able to deliver a car with one or two car seats installed to a stranded MS driver. I'm sure there are other options as well.
So, in summary, I appreciate the several helpful posts and I apologize for anybody who thinks I was complaining or being dismissive of suggestions. I'm not in a hurry to change my vehicle to handle a niche use-case for me, however I will be considering 20" wheels in the future. Finally I have ordered an inflatable booster seat as a backup for my daughter on our next road trip (which she is technically too light to use still but in an emergency it seems better than nothing, and our next road trip won't be for a while).
Finally, in order to help others deciding on the third-row seats, I ask the community to bring up this scenario when they are making their decision. It would have helped me to think about this in advance.
Thank you.
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On the other hand I absolutely love my third-row seats for around town. I currently have one rear-facing car seat in the middle of the back seat and put my older daughter in the jump seats. It is great that I can fit four adults and/or two children in my MS without moving around car seats. And when my younger daughter gets older then I can put both kids in the very back and theoretically seat five adults and two kids and, even better, seat two kids without ever installing/removing car seats.
Now, when my older child gets too big to sit in the jump seats I'll definitely try to find a way to remove them to gain back some storage space.
Here are some things I did not say and never did say but it seems some people heard these things. Again I never said: it is Tesla's fault that I lost a tire, it is Tesla's fault that I didn't have a good way to get my kids home, the Model S sucks, the Model S sucks for road trips, etc, etc. I never said any of this. I was simply wondering out loud -- is my particular Tesla, which was not purchased for long-distance remote travel, suitable to be used for long-distance remote travel? If I continue to use it as such, are there things I could do to make future issues less of a hassle.
I also was not traumatized... it was an expensive (~$1000) and eye-opening incident that got me thinking -- it could have been worse (timing & location) and could I have been better prepared? Additionally, could Tesla Roadside Assistance have been better prepared? The answer to all of this is "yes". Yes I could have been more prepared, and next time I will be. And perhaps this will help somebody else be more prepared, or help somebody else think about this before ordering their MS.
Most of the responses focused on the 21" wheels which was not the important part of my post. I wasn't complaining that I got a flat on my 21" tires. I already knew it was more likely than on 19" wheels. I was not blaming Tesla. I wasn't looking for suggestions on how to avoid getting a flat tire, specifically since I know you can't completely avoid that risk. As I've said; I've had 3-4 flat tires on wheels that make the 19" rims seem crazy risky, so a flat tire can happen in any situation. The suggestions were pretty much 100% either (1) replace your wheels and tires with 19" versions or (2) carry a spare in your frunk (which won't fit). But since I wasn't asking how to avoid flat tires it wasn't relevant to me and it came across as dismissive. In researching the purchase I did read a lot about 19" vs. 21". I saw many posts from people who had and were happy with 19" wheels as well as many posts from people who had and were happy with 21" wheels. It did seem that geography/weather was the primary factor -- drivers in New England preferred 19" and drivers in warmer weather were happy with 21". I do live in the south and rarely encounter potholes. Additionally both me and my wife really preferred the look of the vehicle with the 21" wheels. So that's why I went with 21".
In hindsight, I really should have considered aftermarket 20" wheels more. I don't think I ran across that option being discussed as much as 19" vs. 21". I also didn't realize the MS didn't have a spare tire until very late in my research after I'd decided on the 21" wheels. As somebody who has always had spare tires I don't think it really clicked until now that perhaps 21" tires plus road trips plus no spare tire might be a risky combination. It has made me consider spending ~$2k on 20" wheels and tires before I spend ~$2k on new 21" tires when I need them.
Many responses seemed dismissive of the challenge of being stranded with children for which you don't have a car seat. Although there are other vehicles with rear-facing jumpseats there are few, if any, that have built-in car seats. So 99.9% of drivers on the road have never encountered the situation I was just in because they could never have been in that situation. In all of my research before purchasing I never saw this possibility brought up, only discussions on temperature and safety of the rear seats. Tesla Roadside Assistance didn't seem particularly well set up to handle the situation either. It makes me wonder if I'm one of the first people to ever be in this situation.
Also I wonder if some of the dismissive posts are from people who have never dealt with the size and inconvenience of modern carseats for young children. Specifically the solution of "just toss in an extra car seat" is not very feasible. Imagine if both of my kids were in the rear jump seats -- am I really to bring along two extra car seats just in case? That would take about 50% of the storage in the rear seat, leaving me only the (small) frunk and about 50% of the back seat for other items (luggage, strollers, pack&plays, etc). It just isn't practical. Now if the children are big/old enough the inflatable booster seat is a GREAT option that I'm really glad I learned about in this thread.
The other suggestions about not using the jumpseats on long-distance trips are reasonable, however it is definitely not how I envisioned using the MS when I purchased it. Part of the value of buying the rear jumpseats is that was one fewer carseat I need to purchase and store. It also means I can have full access to my rear seat without having to install/remove car seats on a regular basis (an activity I find very annoying). But, yes, I could in the future remove a car seat from our other vehicle and install in in the rear seat of the MS. One issue is my wife doesn't like the kids to be on the outboard seats and the MS doesn't have LATCH on the center seat, so basically I'd have to have two car seats on the two outer seats which is doable but not preferred for my wife. Also the folded-down third-row seats are taking up valuable cargo space.
Basically my conclusion is -- if your kids are big/old enough to use the small booster seats (especially a collapsible/inflatable one) then the jumpseats may be great for long trips with the booster seats as backups (temperature permitting). But if your kids are small enough to require full car seats then the third-row seating is a liability for a road trip; it adds expense to the car, weight, and takes up valuable storage space. Unless you are willing to take the risk that you could be stranded with no easy way to get your kids home without backup carseat options. Of course eventually both of my children will be big enough to sit in the jump seats and use the inflatable booster seat as a backup and then I think my MS will be an ideal roadtrip vehicle.
I do believe there are some enhancements that Tesla could make to their Roadside Assistance program that would help make the third-row seats a much better option for long-distance journeys. I have sent these suggestions to Tesla but I'll post them here: (1) Tesla tow partners could carry two carseats for this situation or (2) Tesla could partner with Uber to add the feature to request an Uber with a car seat or two or (3) Tesla could partner with something like Enterprise to be able to deliver a car with one or two car seats installed to a stranded MS driver. I'm sure there are other options as well.
So, in summary, I appreciate the several helpful posts and I apologize for anybody who thinks I was complaining or being dismissive of suggestions. I'm not in a hurry to change my vehicle to handle a niche use-case for me, however I will be considering 20" wheels in the future. Finally I have ordered an inflatable booster seat as a backup for my daughter on our next road trip (which she is technically too light to use still but in an emergency it seems better than nothing, and our next road trip won't be for a while).
Finally, in order to help others deciding on the third-row seats, I ask the community to bring up this scenario when they are making their decision. It would have helped me to think about this in advance.
Thank you.
- - - Updated - - -
On the other hand I absolutely love my third-row seats for around town. I currently have one rear-facing car seat in the middle of the back seat and put my older daughter in the jump seats. It is great that I can fit four adults and/or two children in my MS without moving around car seats. And when my younger daughter gets older then I can put both kids in the very back and theoretically seat five adults and two kids and, even better, seat two kids without ever installing/removing car seats.
Now, when my older child gets too big to sit in the jump seats I'll definitely try to find a way to remove them to gain back some storage space.
mkspeedr
Member
Does anyone have a spare set of wheels with run flats mounted? I was considering a spare set of wheels for road trips. It would be a quick fix and definitely worth the cost/pain versus stuck on an empty highway at midnight.
