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Not impressed with AP, why get FSD?

Jomak

Member
Dec 27, 2018
92
11
ATL
I’ve been testing a new 20 M3 LR with AP only. The car has been great! The pickup is amazing. The handling is very good. The options are nice, minus no front camera. My biggest complaint is AP. Maybe I am not allowing it to work fully, but I value my life.

Anytime I engage AP it says apply pressure to the steering wheel. I have to chock the wheel or grab it hard, not ideal when I know they have camera looking at me. This could be enhanced. Next, the car doesn’t seem to want to slow down when traffic infront of me slows or stops. My VW has better adaptive cruise than this. The lane assist always likes to pull towards the center line and worries me it will cross. I just don’t think AP3 is reliable like I see videos of people using. This leads me to think no way would I trust FSD. Yes I know you don’t let the car drive while you do nothing. I have no real confidence in AP and reading the FSD warning/caution neither does Tesla.

What am I doing wrong? Am I missing something? I love the car and would buy any model and save $10k. Maybe I am not trusting it or it’s Atlanta/traffic.
 
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Phlier

Bluebird
Jun 12, 2019
1,475
1,847
Utah
Do a Google search for Full Self Drive Beta, and you'll understand.

Agreed, FSD in its current public version is nothing more than a nice driver assistance device; it's a far cry from "Full Self Drive." But right now, the beta version of the auto pilot re-write for FSD is in the hands of a few very lucky beta testers.

And it's pure freaking magic. Go check out a few youtube videos and see if you don't agree.
 

birdsquared

Fan-man (too old to be a fanboi)
May 15, 2020
69
76
Burnaby, BC
You don't need to apply 'pressure' to the steering wheel, just a little (very little) bit of torque, as though you were going to turn. It becomes second nature to hold the wheel that way. As for not slowing for traffic in front of you, how many car lengths have you set your TACC (Traffic Aware Cruise Control) distance to? You may want to increase it a little (you can toggle it more/fewer using the right scroll wheel).
Your car should be keeping to the middle of the lane as it drives - if it is hugging one lane or the other, you might want to check with Tesla Service about that.
 

Kevy Baby

Dis-Member
Aug 11, 2019
1,883
1,859
Brea, CA
You don't need to apply 'pressure' to the steering wheel, just a little (very little) bit of torque, as though you were going to turn.
Instead of applying torque you can also make an adjustment with either of the thumb wheels; most commonly for me by making a single click up or down (or both) on the sound system volume. I find that much easier.

For me, AP (and now EAP) are in use for 95% of my driving.
 

JulienW

Active Member
Jul 7, 2018
2,565
2,791
Atlanta
I’ve been testing a new 20 M3 LR with AP only. My biggest complaint is AP.

Anytime I engage AP it says apply pressure to the steering wheel. I have to chock the wheel or grab it hard....The lane assist always likes to pull towards the center line and worries me it will cross. I just don’t think AP3 is reliable like I see videos of people using. This leads me to think no way would I trust FSD. Yes I know you don’t let the car drive while you do nothing. I have no real confidence in AP and reading the FSD warning/caution neither does Tesla.....

1) You need to drive more and you will "learn" the wheel torque technique. In the meantime you can touch any steering wheel button. When new I would shake mine until it would kick out of AP. Now I know how to just touch torque it in a few milliseconds.

2) AP centers the car and this seems to our human brain as being closer to the center lane. Just try and relax and let it work. You just need more seat time using it and it ill become second nature and you will gain confidence as to when you need to intervene.

Also in live in Atlantic Station so know a thing or 2 about ATL traffic and AP.
 
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dsgerbc

Member
Jun 4, 2019
490
340
Michigan
Treat the car as a regular (but wicked fast) car with a somewhat advanced cruise control + lane keep assist and you'll be happy. Expecting more is asking for trouble.
 

Jomak

Member
Dec 27, 2018
92
11
ATL
The car has front cameras it uses, but you as the driver do not have access to the front camera when parking, a 360 view, or driving down the road to see where that darn squirrel is.
 

hellocar

Member
Jan 26, 2020
161
98
New Jersey
I'd suggest allowing a little time to get used to it before telling us all how unimpressed you are :) I got used to the nag within a day or two, and like how it makes sure drivers stay engaged. I've driven the car a ton with autopilot over the last 7 months and never once seen it fail to slow down appropriately when traffic in front slowed up. If it's not as smooth as you're used to, possible some of that will improve when the autopilot rewrite rolls out to the rest of us.

I'd recommend against buying the FSD upgrade; I don' think you'll like those features as they are significantly less reliable than basic autopilot at present (auto lane change aside).
 
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raptor5244

Active Member
May 10, 2019
1,025
767
Florida
FSD is too expensive for me. If the system was truly autonomous and you could fully trust it then I could see the value however it currently requires too much babysitting to be worth the cost. IMO, if the system doesn’t perform the function better than the driver then it really isn’t practical. For example, AutoPark, cool trick but how many owner use the feature.
 

TigerNinety

Member
Jun 22, 2016
185
134
Silver Spring, MD
I agree with most posts here. Easiest way to let the car know you’re holding the wheel is to grab the wheel with your left hand at the 9 o’clock position and let your elbow hang. The car never bothers me when I do that.

I much prefer AP for long distance driving, even though I need to keep an eye on it and occasionally disengage. I expect ( from all I see) that FSD on highways will be MUCH better than AP.

That said, $8K-$10K is a lot to “add on” later, was happy I was able to get it with my purchase (used 2016 MS 75D). Maybe more tolerable if you can finance it?
 

Jomak

Member
Dec 27, 2018
92
11
ATL
1) You need to drive more and you will "learn" the wheel torque technique. In the meantime you can touch any steering wheel button. When new I would shake mine until it would kick out of AP. Now I know how to just touch torque it in a few milliseconds.

2) AP centers the car and this seems to our human brain as being closer to the center lane. Just try and relax and let it work. You just need more seat time using it and it ill become second nature and you will gain confidence as to when you need to intervene.

Also in live in Atlantic Station so know a thing or 2 about ATL traffic and AP.

Thank you to all the helpful comments! It was amazing advice!!! I had no idea about adjusting the volume would work and using the right knob left and right adjusted the sensitivity. That made a world of difference! AP was great after that, slowed stopped accelerated perfectly.

I did not see it change lanes if I used the blinker. Much happier now. Thanks!
 

JulienW

Active Member
Jul 7, 2018
2,565
2,791
Atlanta
.....I did not see it change lanes if I used the blinker. Much happier now. Thanks!
Do you have FSD? It will not change lanes on standard AP.

Screen Shot 2020-10-26 at 1.12.27 PM.png
 
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The_Observer

Member
Feb 14, 2020
694
412
Los Angeles
I agree with most posts here. Easiest way to let the car know you’re holding the wheel is to grab the wheel with your left hand at the 9 o’clock position and let your elbow hang. The car never bothers me when I do that.

I much prefer AP for long distance driving, even though I need to keep an eye on it and occasionally disengage. I expect ( from all I see) that FSD on highways will be MUCH better than AP.

That said, $8K-$10K is a lot to “add on” later, was happy I was able to get it with my purchase (used 2016 MS 75D). Maybe more tolerable if you can finance it?

Financing is likely not an option, if anything, they will push for the subscription route.
 

DaveG_NJ

Member
Oct 7, 2020
273
677
NJ
IMaybe I am not trusting it or it’s Atlanta/traffic.

As a new user of AP, I liken it to taking a teenage driver out for the first time. It's a little scary, but after a while, it's pretty easy to trust. I had a few 100 mile trips last week and it performed perfectly on the highway and even some country backroads (long stretches between lights). Honestly, it does 90% or more of what I could ever want which puts me on the fence in terms of opting in for FSD.
 

Perscitus

Member
Jan 29, 2019
807
498
New York
FSD (including latest betas 2020.40.8.10 and 2020.40.8.11) is at best an investment into the brands and techs future, at worst a fun relatively expensive gimmick (same with all flavors of Summon and NoA).

If you are not impressed with AP/EAP, and not the type of driver who cares for or would use FSD - skip it.

It will take next or the following gen of cars, and more importantly circuitry/sensors, for regulation to wake up. Another generation still for it to catch-up.

AP4-5 computing power, upcoming new radar sensors, new/more cameras, maybe addition of LiDAR, faster up/downlinks and proper offline mode to work as this tech should.
 

Kevy Baby

Dis-Member
Aug 11, 2019
1,883
1,859
Brea, CA
...a fun relatively expensive gimmick (same with all flavors of Summon and NoA).
I was one who jumped onto the EAP sale last month. I am surprised at how much I use dumb summon. We park in a pretty tight two-car garage and my wife drives a Toyota Tacoma. I used to back into my side within a couple of inches of the crap along the wall. And even then, I had to shimmy out of my car, often while trying to hold on to something.

Since I got EAP, I use dumb summon to back into and pull out of the garage almost every day. The only exception being when I know my wife will need to get into her car while mine is in there. Smart Summon has actually been kinda cool a couple of times though it is still primarily a party-trick.

NoA sucks. I have been very disappointed with it and I am really hoping that it improves on the upcoming re-write.

But lane changes on even regular AP are now a huge improvement - mainly because it is far less disruptive to my music (a big deal for me) and to my driving.
 
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