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Not so sure anymore if I should get the P100D when I read all these threads...
- Thread starter Seashepherd
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- Model S
RogerHScott
Active Member
There are expensive things that are not luxurious -- they just cost a lot. If you're thinking the main thing you're getting for your
money is luxury than you're likely to be disappointed.
Are you seriously equating phone system problems (almost certainly problems with an outside vendor) with problems with either the car
itself or the company that builds and supports it? No one at the store you dealt with gave you their personal cell #? That's really odd.
Again, even if you think all you're getting for your money is AP (not all that important in many owners' eyes -- nice, for sure, but
"frosting" rather than "cake") and power then you're still likely to be disappointed. Or maybe not -- if you take a leap of faith you
may discover that the reasons to love the car are a) different than what you thought and b) kind of hard to explain to people who
haven't owned or driven one. It sounds a little silly, but you'll hear quite a few people here echo these words: you'll be driving the
future.
Regarding service, I haven't had my car all that long so I can't really speak meaningfully from personal experience. The impression
I get from these boards is they're mostly very reliable and most people never need anything but the minimal routine maintenance.
In the long run you can expect to be doing a lot less maintenance than with any similar ICE car.
money is luxury than you're likely to be disappointed.
Are you seriously equating phone system problems (almost certainly problems with an outside vendor) with problems with either the car
itself or the company that builds and supports it? No one at the store you dealt with gave you their personal cell #? That's really odd.
Again, even if you think all you're getting for your money is AP (not all that important in many owners' eyes -- nice, for sure, but
"frosting" rather than "cake") and power then you're still likely to be disappointed. Or maybe not -- if you take a leap of faith you
may discover that the reasons to love the car are a) different than what you thought and b) kind of hard to explain to people who
haven't owned or driven one. It sounds a little silly, but you'll hear quite a few people here echo these words: you'll be driving the
future.
Regarding service, I haven't had my car all that long so I can't really speak meaningfully from personal experience. The impression
I get from these boards is they're mostly very reliable and most people never need anything but the minimal routine maintenance.
In the long run you can expect to be doing a lot less maintenance than with any similar ICE car.
Owning a Tesla is NOT like owning a Mercedes. The service, in my personal experience is very good, but not "luxury". With Mercedes you're paying for all of the hoity toity luxury whatnot that comes with owning a high end status vehicle. Tesla is not that. If that's important to you, then buy a Mercedes.
A Tesla has some really unique and revolutionary features - but the fit, finish and frippery of a $140K Tesla is more that of a 50-60K car. When you buy a Tesla you get to be part of a technology revolution, and to own a stinking fast and really fun car.
To each their own. Tesla is what it is; they're a new company doing their damnedest to produce a great machine, screwing some things up and getting better. Most of us here value what Tesla is, warts and all, far more than the silly frills and perceived status that come with a high end Mercedes. With Tesla, you're paying, partly, to help fund the revolution.
I've had mine nearly 2 years. It's not been perfect, but pretty darned close. And the service has been significantly better than it's been with any other car that I've had. But I've also never owned a true "luxury" car either. I've never wanted one.
I never felt that with either of the Mercedes I've owned (most recently, a GL450). Granted, it was only $75,000 and not $125,000. Still, I'm not sure my local dealership is capable of much more service. They're fine, just not particularly "luxury."
Certainly, buying a Tesla is buying into a growing movement that has some rough edges. Some people find those rough edges charming, or least overcoming them and the rest of the journey to be something worthwhile. Understandably, many people would not.
In many ways, this mirrors the discussion on interiors. Some people find the minimalist Tesla interior to be... not luxurious enough. I sit in my GL450, I look at the showroom Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Volvo and BMW competition and I just don't get it - many of the same plastics in the same places, same leather in the same places, in some cases more leather in the wrong places which means they will wear faster, and maybe some more wood I never touch? Definitely a lot more buttons. Tons more buttons. I don't find that luxurious. But the infotainment and UI interactions are far, far worse and frustrating. In many ways, far more difficult to operate while driving. But to each their own.
Luxury is the wrong word, maybe High End is better. I don't think I'm a 'luxury' guy, my current daily driver is a BMW X6M and my (almost) daily EV (hybrid) is a BMW I8. Some of the other cars range from BMW Z1 to Morgan Threewheeler, not exactly Mercedes S Class Luxury Sofa Seat ride...
Anyway, I just got reminded that often the individuals make or break a dealership / service center. I just got a call back from a really nice guy who I know for a while at Tesla and he's trying to get me the car. These are the people that Tesla and all other Marques need to be thankful for! So hopefully I will be able to make my decision by the 12th. Thanks again for all the input, it really helped.
Anyway, I just got reminded that often the individuals make or break a dealership / service center. I just got a call back from a really nice guy who I know for a while at Tesla and he's trying to get me the car. These are the people that Tesla and all other Marques need to be thankful for! So hopefully I will be able to make my decision by the 12th. Thanks again for all the input, it really helped.
Camera-Cruiser
Fully Charged
No truer words said. It's the people. They can make a McDonalds almost a gourmet experience or a Wolfgang Pucks a McDonalds.
Hope it works for you.
This might be going just a bit too far...
This is honestly the ticket. I've had some run around between different Tesla SvC's, but if I want a bottom line answer, I call my guy, who gave me his cell, if I really have an issue that needs to be resolved. These people are crazy amounts of slammed, and there are alot of a-holes out there making their job very very difficult. Connect with someone at your local service center, and hang on for dear life
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
A couple of thoughts...
1) Tesla never actually uses the "luxury" label with it's cars. They always say "premium." and it's true. It's a premium product in the sense that it's got very unique and valuable features and qualities. It's not really trying to be a vehicle that pampers you in the traditional luxury car kind of way.
2) People keep saying they have certain expectations for a $100K or $130K car. But Teslas are really $50-60K cars. A guy buying a base model S will get the same level of service and attention as the guy with the P100DL. (The cost difference is mostly in performance options. And I think we can all agree that part of the cost is a bargain compared to traditional supercars.) Nearly all of the components between the two cars are exactly the same. Our expectation levels should be that of a $50-60K car.
1) Tesla never actually uses the "luxury" label with it's cars. They always say "premium." and it's true. It's a premium product in the sense that it's got very unique and valuable features and qualities. It's not really trying to be a vehicle that pampers you in the traditional luxury car kind of way.
2) People keep saying they have certain expectations for a $100K or $130K car. But Teslas are really $50-60K cars. A guy buying a base model S will get the same level of service and attention as the guy with the P100DL. (The cost difference is mostly in performance options. And I think we can all agree that part of the cost is a bargain compared to traditional supercars.) Nearly all of the components between the two cars are exactly the same. Our expectation levels should be that of a $50-60K car.
Whistle2Whine
Member
I think Tesla should be trying to poach someone from Lexus' dealer ops/customer service division, as I think they (and to a lesser degree Acura and Infiniti) hit the sweet spot on 'Luxury' dealer interactions, in a relaxed way. The little touches in the service areas at their dealers are great, like my previous Audi, but I found interacting with their Infiniti people to be less 'snobby'. And the Lexus sales staff that I've dealt with recently (especially being a younger guy) much less stand-offish than the German makes a difference. Tesla has been great in this regard as well, with special call-outs to the Buena Park, CA location and my local Palm Springs team. So, as others have said, with Tesla service, a lot is based on geography.
I test drove a car while on vacation in SoCal. We were really just out looking, not really planning on buying right now. We were also offered a car for 24 hours. No pressure, they won't call and bug you. We called and took a car for 24 hours. Talked a lot that night and the next morning. When we dropped it off we placed our order for a MS P90DL. Have not been disappointed.
Tesla's are really fun to drive. I don't anticipate having to go to a service center.
You're only getting a two year lease, so why all the worry?
I would guess you probably won't miss the "dealer experience" where they charge you for every little thing while being extremely nice.
Remember, all those perks cost money, and you are paying for them with your dealer visits.
You're only getting a two year lease, so why all the worry?
I would guess you probably won't miss the "dealer experience" where they charge you for every little thing while being extremely nice.
Remember, all those perks cost money, and you are paying for them with your dealer visits.
Exactly.
GM is Windows.
Mercedes is Mac.
Tesla is Linux.
Each OS has its adherents for good reason. I use all three, for very different purposes. I think trying to ask whether a Tesla is "better" than a Mercedes is like asking whether a convertible is "better" than a pickup. Are you going to the beach or hauling drywall?
somnambule
Member
I think the service expectation for "a $100k+" vehicle is set by brands like Mercedes and BMW where only a very small fraction of their sales are in the $100k+ range. So they can afford to coddle those customers. With Tesla, I'm guessing close to half their customers paid $100k+ or close to that. Even the cheapest Tesla at the moment is significantly more expensive than the average transaction prices of every full-line luxury brand. Tesla simply can't afford to deliver a "luxury" experience to that large a fraction of their buyers without having to over-build their nascent service infrastructure. And Tesla (correctly) doesn't see that as a priority.
Drucifer
Active Member
What you are paying for is a car that offers what no other car does: Freedom from the pump with immense quickness. If you want luxury, you can get that from Mercedes, Audi, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Jaguar or several other companies. Those companies will return your calls and provide courteous service.
I walk in to any other dealer and I can get swarmed with sales people, other people, waiting on me from the moment I walk in. Tesla made me feel like I had to pursue them to buy a car.
But the car. It is like no other.....really. Again, if having a luxury cabin and getting concierge service is your thing, I would try somewhere else.
I walk in to any other dealer and I can get swarmed with sales people, other people, waiting on me from the moment I walk in. Tesla made me feel like I had to pursue them to buy a car.
But the car. It is like no other.....really. Again, if having a luxury cabin and getting concierge service is your thing, I would try somewhere else.
One the things I really liked about my Porsche owning experience is I was treated by the dealer the same as someone who bought a much higher end Porsche. Not only that, but Porsche owners themselves treated me like one of them despite the fact that I didn't have a 911 (I had a Cayman S).
They seemed to understand that for the most part what you got with that extra $75K to $100K was speed. With a P100D that's mostly what you're getting aside from that ridiculously silly part about the ventilated seats.
You're not paying a huge amount more than my $90K for luxury or to be treated better. You're getting more speed for the most part.
Give up on getting luxury with a Tesla. It's just not going to be in the ballpark of a $100K Euro sedan. You should also give up it being completely rattle/squeak free. It's just not going to happen just like it won't happen with some Porsche's. The Porsche Cayman I had eventually always rattled because the suspension was so stiff. The Tesla is more prone to rattles since it's really their first car, and there is an art to building a rattle free car. It's going to take Tesla some time before they make anything that gets close to what Lexus can do.
With the Tesla you should also give up on fast repairs because the parts management of Tesla is not great, and is a known issue.
With the Tesla it's about everything else. What you're getting is an amazing drivetrain, and instant torque. You're getting a car that is regularly updated. You're getting a car that you can sit in traffic without polluting the air. You're getting the best lane-steering/tacc system money can buy. Of course you still have to pay attention because it's not even close to failure proof even if it's the best.
I've gotten great service from Tesla, and in fact the last time the tech drove out to my work to fix something. So I have nothing bad to say about that, but my service department is Bellevue, WA and as far as I can tell their one of the best. I've heard the service varies a lot depending on the SC.
In terms of announcements I would hardly call a tweet from anyone very professional. It's pretty sad we live in times where a tweet is counted for anything. It's pretty much just a hype machine whether it's Elon or some election candidate. Don't take the tweets that seriously. It's fun to make fun of Elon for some of them, but it's not something to get worked up about.
They seemed to understand that for the most part what you got with that extra $75K to $100K was speed. With a P100D that's mostly what you're getting aside from that ridiculously silly part about the ventilated seats.
You're not paying a huge amount more than my $90K for luxury or to be treated better. You're getting more speed for the most part.
Give up on getting luxury with a Tesla. It's just not going to be in the ballpark of a $100K Euro sedan. You should also give up it being completely rattle/squeak free. It's just not going to happen just like it won't happen with some Porsche's. The Porsche Cayman I had eventually always rattled because the suspension was so stiff. The Tesla is more prone to rattles since it's really their first car, and there is an art to building a rattle free car. It's going to take Tesla some time before they make anything that gets close to what Lexus can do.
With the Tesla you should also give up on fast repairs because the parts management of Tesla is not great, and is a known issue.
With the Tesla it's about everything else. What you're getting is an amazing drivetrain, and instant torque. You're getting a car that is regularly updated. You're getting a car that you can sit in traffic without polluting the air. You're getting the best lane-steering/tacc system money can buy. Of course you still have to pay attention because it's not even close to failure proof even if it's the best.
I've gotten great service from Tesla, and in fact the last time the tech drove out to my work to fix something. So I have nothing bad to say about that, but my service department is Bellevue, WA and as far as I can tell their one of the best. I've heard the service varies a lot depending on the SC.
In terms of announcements I would hardly call a tweet from anyone very professional. It's pretty sad we live in times where a tweet is counted for anything. It's pretty much just a hype machine whether it's Elon or some election candidate. Don't take the tweets that seriously. It's fun to make fun of Elon for some of them, but it's not something to get worked up about.
Sorry if I am going off topic.
I want to add one more observation. When buying a product the need for often repeated service Should be a deterrent.
The idea of taking time out of my life to change oil and other stuff is such a drag. Two kids and a ton of obligations means less desire to visit a dealership. Sure they have free coffee, sure the lounge is nice, but I would rather be somewhere else.
With a P 100 D you get Hypercar acceleration at normal Honda Civic maintenance prices. No oil changes, no expensive brakes, no clutch repairs etc. Just brakes and filter.
Dealers want you to come back for more because your car will very likely break down or need expensive maintenance and they want to provide that service. The perks they offer you are paid many times over by the money spent on repairs and maintenance.
There is no free lunch, and the reason everyone is so nice to you at the dealership is because they see you as a dollar sign.
Oddly enough, now that I think if it, that's what happens at a lot of seedy establishments.
I want to add one more observation. When buying a product the need for often repeated service Should be a deterrent.
The idea of taking time out of my life to change oil and other stuff is such a drag. Two kids and a ton of obligations means less desire to visit a dealership. Sure they have free coffee, sure the lounge is nice, but I would rather be somewhere else.
With a P 100 D you get Hypercar acceleration at normal Honda Civic maintenance prices. No oil changes, no expensive brakes, no clutch repairs etc. Just brakes and filter.
Dealers want you to come back for more because your car will very likely break down or need expensive maintenance and they want to provide that service. The perks they offer you are paid many times over by the money spent on repairs and maintenance.
There is no free lunch, and the reason everyone is so nice to you at the dealership is because they see you as a dollar sign.
Oddly enough, now that I think if it, that's what happens at a lot of seedy establishments.
candersoh
7957farm.com
i've received excellent service from both the austin SC and the Denver SC. we frequently use the charging stations in glenwood springs and grand junction on the way to telluride and then en route from boulder to austin. i have had a downright miserable experience with BMW when i used to have a z8 (bmw of austin). tesla has indeed changed since they serviced my roadster in my garage but i'm super happy with them just the same. left a pair of sunglasses in the loaner at the denver SC and they drove them to me that evening to our home in boulder. quite something!
theslimshadyist
Active Member
So, I own a 2014 550i M Sport and was considering the i8 until my local BMW gave me one for a day. I was extremely unimpressed with the vehicle. My comment to my long time sales rep was "I can't figure out if this is a hybrid trying to be a sports car or a sports car trying to be a hybrid". The vehicle was sluggish, the technology and everything in my current interior was far superior and I felt as if I were opting for a downgrade. Now granted, the lines of the i8 are incredible, best looking street vehicle on the market without question.
A few days later I drove a P90D and then my local Tesla dealership gave me one for a weekend test drive. I was immediately hooked and in my opinion, there was no comparison to the i8 and I again I felt that I would be downgrading if I had purchased the i8 as I initially planned on doing.
To each is own and YMMV but if you haven't driven a MS I would highly recommend that you do so immediately. You will quickly overcome all of the negative feedback spewing out in the forums and remember.... a lot of owners come to these boards to vent their frustration and I know many people who aren't even on these boards who have an outstanding experience.
Just a little "food for thought".
