I've got an S70, basically the "slowest" of the Teslas. The torque during rapid acceleration is enough to scare your passenger. I understand what the numbers might say but in reality the 3 really doesn't need more than they're giving it for it to feel like a very fast car to most people.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Then you would be, yet again, wrong.
I get how the tesla "feels"
But having been into performance vehicles for a lot of years the "butt dyno" is notoriously worthless compared to actual measurements
The actual measurements provably show you are wrong here.
Except- it's not.
As I just demonstrated with actual numbers from calibrated tests done by the car magazines.
I showed multiple non-electric cars with similar 0-60 times that are quicker than the tesla. (certainly there's also some that aren't- mainly the traction limited ones)
(well, to be fair- I used the S70, which has the same 0-60 time as the large battery 3... it's possible the sub-times won't be identical, but I can't think of any mechanical reason they'd be massively different yet have the same 0-60)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
No, I really do.
you don't understand that EVs aren't magic, and that actual measured performance is a real thing.
or that having a transmission and gear in the diff and a torque converter can offer some launch benefits that multiply torque beyond what the engine puts out... (it's why cars of similar weight and engine output don't neccesarily have identical performance.... the IS350 is a very quick car for 306hp from 0-60 because it's specifically geared to be... It'd be a poor choice if you were racing 100-150 though... but almost nobody does that in real life.
You claimed that the AMAZING ELECTRIC 0-30 FEEL was so fast you could ignore the 0-60 number... I provided direct measured #s proving that was incorrect. You continued to stomp your feet and go NU UH with literally nothing to dispute my facts or support your own claims besides magical thinking.
Pull your head out of the marketing brochure and go test some actual cars maybe.
Or at least read the results of those who have.
I keep citing documented sources showing you're wrong, and you keep replying with "but it doesn't FEEL like I am because ELECTRIC TORQUE FEELS!"
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There is no way in hell that going from 50 to 70 mph in a 340i manual takes 6.5 second.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I admire your continued ability to reply to detailed and sourced posts demonstrating you are wrong with nonsensical replies that fail to support a single claim you have made or disprove those of others.
At least you are consistent, even if it's consistenty wrong.
Here ya go.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/tesla-model-s.pdf
Do you have a quota of things to be wrong about each day? are we close, because I need some sleep soon?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
it's an example of what I mentioned earlier and why most 30-50 and 50-70 tests on ICE cars suck- they test in "top gear"
which usually means idiotic things like going from 30-50 in 6th gear. Of course that's stupid slow.
Check out the Audi RS3 link I posted earlier for an idea of this- they test 50-70 in 4th, 5th, and 6th and it got like a full second slower each time.
Then they tested using the correct gears for the range and they did 40-70 faster than any of their 50-70 results in higher gears. (and also faster than the P70D does 50-70, because even MAGIC ELECTRIC MOTORS can't change facts)
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
... what?
You smugly asked for a tesla marking brochure- as if they don't exist and I must be some kind of idiot to suggest you had been looking at one.
I immediately linked you to... a tesla marketing brochure. On tesla.com. Which totally exist- making it clear your earlier post was nonsensical (a theme with you)
And you just drive on as if you weren't caught being completely clueless again?
Wow.
A smarter guy than you would be embarrassed by now.
sub
Active Member
I currently have a BMW 335d which is a quick car for a family sedan, I've seen it go 0-60 in 4.7-4.8 range. It's quick off the line like an EV but runs out of wind as the speeds pick up compared to higher hp gas cars. I also had an i3 for 2 years that I think does 0-60 in 7.2. The i3 felt quicker. The nice thing about EV's is that you don't look and feel like a jackass when you punch it off the line to get out in front of traffic compared to all the noise of an ICE.
I doubt I've had the 335d at full throttle more than a few times outside of passing that needs to get done quickly. I'm not willing to wait 6-9 more months and pay for all that performance right now for a P3 in addition to not getting the tax credit so I can show off to a few friends.
I'm getting a maxed out LR m3, 5.1 is plenty and I have a feeling once it's tested it will actually be a few tenths faster like previous Teslas. I'll wait for the 2nd gen roadster to buy performance.
I doubt I've had the 335d at full throttle more than a few times outside of passing that needs to get done quickly. I'm not willing to wait 6-9 more months and pay for all that performance right now for a P3 in addition to not getting the tax credit so I can show off to a few friends.
I'm getting a maxed out LR m3, 5.1 is plenty and I have a feeling once it's tested it will actually be a few tenths faster like previous Teslas. I'll wait for the 2nd gen roadster to buy performance.
I think this actually applies to 75%+ of the posters on here. Sure, the first 0.1 second snap of an EV is pretty exciting, but it doesn't magically make the car faster from 0-20, 0-30 etc. the tesla might pop ahead for a split second, but an ice engine with 1+ second advantage to 60mph is quickly going to overtake it
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Yup.
People love feel over facts.
It reminds me of a time I was asked by a vendor to test/review a mod he was trying to sell to the IS community- it was a little switchbox that plugged into the connector on the accelerator (car was drive by wire) and essentially all it did was change the signal that the pedal was sending to the TPS (throttle position sensor) and then on to the ECU.
One of the reasons he asked me (offering a free one if I did it and posted a review on the forums) was that I had been mentioning and a thread from folks wanting to get this to "make their car faster" that it was literally impossible for this to do that.
Floor the car and the signal is 100%. You can't get more than 100%.
This box WOULD take a pedal input of 25% and tell the ECU you really pushed the pedal 35% or 50% or whatever depending which setting you put it on.
But you could have gotten that for free by just pushing the pedal to that real point.
I further suggested that the net effect would likely be this:
After plugging it in your car would FEEL faster- because you were used to what 25% pedal felt like, and were now getting 35 or 50...
But after a few days or weeks you would unconsciously readjust your driving and be largely back where you began.
So anyway, they sent it to me... I tested it for about a month-
First doing measured runs with a calibrated accelerometer.
Guess what? 0 difference in actual speed. Because physics.
Then I tested it "for fun" by turning it on for short periods... and indeed, it made the car "feel" faster.
Then I tested my long-term-tune out theory over several weeks... and that seemed to also be correct... if you turned it on and left it on after about a week it felt like it always used to.
You only got "fun" if you only used it occasionally.
So I posted a detailed review on the forum with all this, with the logs of my data and accel runs and whatnot.... basically concluding that it did nothing for actual performance but could give you a fun "turbo boost button" kinda feeling for short periods if you didn't mind fooling yourself.
Then I resold the free one they gave me for like $200.
The company grabbed like 2 out of context quotes from my review and used them for marketing on their website, but then I did give them permission upfront to quote my review- after making it clear regardless of free product it'd be an honest one.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Of course I have.
I corrected that as yet another one of your mistakes quite a few posts ago.
I mean- are you ever not wrong?
Seriously though- sleep is a thing normal people need, so somebody else will have to help you reach your quota of being corrected tonight I guess... good luck!
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
The biggest issue with this discussion on specs/measurements is that they are generally accomplished by non standard driving means like break torquing or high RPM clutch drops or.... Because most testing magazines pride themselves on being real drivers capable of extracting every last drop of potential out of their test candidate. In order to extract the absolute most out of ICE you have to overcome torque curves and power curves that span 6,000 to 9,000 RPM, turbo lag, transmission torque converters or clutches, gear shifting, throttle bodies, etc. The list is actually quite extensive. It is generally NOT how most people would drive their cars. Most people just mash the gas pedal and get lesser results. Often quite less. The elegance of the EV is it's simplicity. Everyone who has driven one talks about the instant torque because it is real. It is NOW. I am not here to argue numbers, but numbers can skew perspective. The old adage "looks good on paper" applies here. Go watch how something that used to be awesome and fast looking /sounding now reminds you of your grandpa by watching the Tesla racing channel on YouTube. There was a time when I thought all those cars he races were *so* fast. After watching that now they just seem pathetic and inefficient. Extracting speed out of Tesla's is as easy as pie too.
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voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
Yeah that's what I suspected. I guess testing in top gear is valid as long as you test at high speeds. Of course they won't do that as this is where ICE are much faster.
Btw I'm a huge fan of a model 3 over a 3 series and can't wait to own mine. i don't understand the need to make stuff up.
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