Off Topic Chatter from the Pictures thread

[Garlan Garner]

Forgive my honesty, but that car is far more attractive aesthetically than the model 3. I'm not canceling my reservation because I want an EV that I can afford, but if that Lexus had ALL the same opportunities ( acceleration, supercharging, range, everything) as the Model 3.....then "see ya later Tesla".

Hmmm... I wonder what the new 2018 Toyota Camry looks like from the front?.....hmmmm
Why would they design the camry to look like that if they KNOW that look doesn't sell?

Is this car in the competition line of the Model 3?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Hmmm... I wonder what the new 2018 Toyota Camry looks like from the front?.....hmmmm
Why would they design the camry to look like that if they KNOW that look doesn't sell?

Is this car in the competition line of the Model 3?

A lot of people will buy a Camry regardless of how it looks (many loyal buyers), but if they go too far they risk aliening existing buyers (like they did for some Lexus models that did lose buyers because of the styling).

It was a top down call by the CEO that Toyota must try to change their image of a boring brand:
The Rationale Behind Toyota's Insane New Styling

 

[gregincal]

Hmmm... I wonder what the new 2018 Toyota Camry looks like from the front?.....hmmmm
Why would they design the camry to look like that if they KNOW that look doesn't sell?

Is this car in the competition line of the Model 3?

You like the Toyota/Lexus styling better than Tesla's. Fine, whatever, I dont really give a crap. Personally I think Teslas look a hundred times better, but it's just an opinion. Let's move on.

 

[K-MTG]

@Garlan Garner
Pictures of Model 3s

The chevron is flashing its lights in fear

 

[run-the-joules]

Is this car in the competition line of the Model 3?

For some people, I'm sure. For me? Not a bloody chance. A Camry… god no.

 

[cronosx]

1) Yes, you can. Use any range calculator.

No, really, you can't. As said, you really don't know how italy is made up, please, trust me, as said i'm not telling you that tesla "need to do better!" or similar, time will fix this while they add new superchargers etc, but really, now you can't reach a good portion of italy without absurd detour wich would add up some 2-3h of trip in a trip that could be made in 3h, and some ( aside from the time you need to refill, so a 2-3h detour would means maybe another hour of charging ), you really can't.
And as said, you need to consider that sometime you need to go forward and then go back, it not only going from A to B, but it's going from A to B and return, and if you don't have a supercharger between A and B, maybe you can reach B, but you can't return.
Don't press this point futher, you are simply wrong, we discussed this at lenght in italian forum, even someone that use a model S 100 every days can tell you that sometime you simply can't, and it's fine.. who brought a tesla has accepted that sometime you can't, but it's ok, you simply wait a couple of years and all will be fine.

2) Seriously, you're going to talk about "where you can reach" to someone in a country with no superchargers, and where even the CHAdeMOs/Combos only go a fraction of the way around the country?

Italy has no worse of a supercharger density than the rest of Europe. You are in no way, shape or form supercharger-sparse.

I will no reply futher, just think what you want.
You can't simply summon a map and say "it's ok", it's not.
And plugshare can tell what you want, it's simply not true. If, and i repeat, if, you find one of those point it's surely iced ( every damn one of them, always ) and only recently ( couple of months? ) you can call the police to remove the car ( before the law didn't think a bad thing that someone park here.. it was just plain ok ) and they would comply.. in maybe a half day? if not in the weekend of course, so again, it's pointless
Most if not pratically all of them are dedicated ( it's not written in the site, but here it is.. ) to charging taxi leaf, corporation car, car sharing services etc, you really can't use it.. they are more or less parking spot for others, not for who could need it, and the one you can use are ofter not where the map says and usually are not working, it's just plain useless, you can't count on it.. in no way you can count on it if you don't know someone nearby that can tell you if it really works.

I'm not saying that you are better server or other, maybe you have another way of reasoning than us, but for me is simply plain stupid to put down more money ( at least double the money, for the model 3 i plan to spend x3 money.. ) than an ice and driving always thinking "and if i can't charge? how i am to return home?", maybe you are supergreen etc... i don't know, but i will not say to someone else "you should go green" if this means buyng a S or a X ( if you want to roadtrip ) or buy a leaf for at least double the price of what they think it's already a good expanse ( 12k€ car ).
You really don't see much of +30k€ cars.. the one you see are suv, and you really can't talk about green to someone that use a gigantic suv just to bring the child to school, it's a battle lost, for them you need to change "what is cool", and this will need time while an electric car goes mainstream and it's cool to not "brrooooom" like a maniac idiot in front of childs having the visibiliy of a truck ( meaning you can put down all the child you want.. since you simply can't see them while they run around ), if the safety it's not an issue, how hard is parking where our parking lot are good only for a smart, paying twice in taxes, paying twice in gas etc.. if all of this is not an issue, how you can convince them that going green is good?
That's the good thing of tesla, Tesla is cool, and even someone that doesn't care a fig to been green can end up buying one

Except, of course, that Tesla already did it. 23 times. Plus five stores and two service centres.

You missed my point, we simply don't trust it by nature, the fact that tesla proven itself many times surprises us every times, someone is beginning to trust it.. but not someone that is not following tesla every damn day as myself, for them it's simply "we will see if they will do it.. when all it's ok and going for some year maybe i will look into it" ( and the 2° service center has less than a month.. i would say that this can't count as "it's year you have all of this supercharger and service centers!" )

Your points about Italians not spending much on cars and the lack of incentives are fair. But the other stuff isn't even remotely fair. You're describing the situation that the rest of mainland Europe is in, and which is far far better than the situation we're in here.

I described the sentiment in italy, i don't understand why it should irk at you, if you are better than us at being green, then good to you. Now, just for the sake of it.. "i come from china, you are simply phatetic, look at us! how many supercharger we have? look at our infrastructure! look at our income! and see? we buy more electric car than you! you are phatetic!", so what?

(And BTW, you don't spend that much less than the EU average on cars)

What a surprise, so wha't your car? and your friends car? just for the sake of it.. i would say what my relatives are driving, and then you would tell me what your relatives are driving, just to check no?
- Fiat Punto ( x 3 )
- Renault Clio ( x 2 )
- Alfa Giulietta ( brought used )
- Seat Ibiza ( x2, but one is 15years old )
- Opel Corsa
- Mini Cooper ( someone has to step up the game! )
Now, of course all of these cars are with below 90cv, i'm waiting your reply.. it would be interesting

 

[AustinPowers]

Is this car in the competition line of the Model 3?

In the US, possibly.
Over here there is no Toyota Camry, thankfully, so no competition from that end.

And now, back to pictures of production Model 3s...

 

[KarenRei]

No, really, you can't. As said, you really don't know how italy is made up

Yes, damn those lying range calculators. Clearly, in most countries, in colder, wetter, windier climates, Teslas get an EPA range of 220-335 miles (354-539km), but in Italy, they can't make the ~120mi / 200km trip across the peninsula. "Because mountains". We'll just kindly ignore that most of Europe has mountains, that they don't cost you much range unless the roads are very steep on the descent (and even then not enough to make the trip impractical). Whine about your mountains to Norway, the highest EV market penetration country on Earth, and with mountains a lot more impressive than the Apennines (which I assume you're talking about since you talk about "across" Italy, and in the Ligurian Alps you have a higher supercharger density).

And FYI? Your supercharger density is roughly the same as Norway's.

please, trust me, as said i'm not telling you that tesla "need to do better!" or similar, time will fix this while they add new superchargers etc, but really, now you can't reach a good portion of italy without absurd detour

Again: you have the same supercharger density as the rest of mainland Europe. Stop saying things that apply to everywhere in mainland Europe as your excuse, and particularly in a conversation with someone who has zero superchargers, and where even CCS / CHAdeMOs only go halfway around the country

And as said, you need to consider that sometime you need to go forward and then go back

Again: you have the same supercharger density as the rest of mainland Europe. Stop saying things that apply to everywhere in mainland Europe as your excuse, and particularly in a conversation with someone who has zero superchargers, and where even CCS / CHAdeMOs only go halfway around the country

(Why do I have the feeling that I'm going to end up having to repeat this way too often?)

Don't press this point futher, you are simply wrong

Yes, damn actual maps and range calculators, "baldfaced unsupported assertion" makes things true.

You can't simply summon a map and say "it's ok", it's not.

And plugshare can tell what you want, it's simply not true.

Right, got it. Every data source lies about Italy but tells the truth about everywhere else.

If, and i repeat, if, you find one of those point it's surely iced ( every damn one of them, always ) and only recently ( couple of months? ) you can call the police to remove the car ( before the law didn't think a bad thing that someone park here.. it was just plain ok ) and they would comply.. in maybe a half day? if not in the weekend of course, so again, it's pointless

Again: you're describing the same situation as the rest of mainland Europe. Stop saying things that apply to everywhere in mainland Europe as your excuse, and particularly in a conversation with someone who is in a country with an actual terrible charger density.

Most if not pratically all of them are dedicated ( it's not written in the site, but here it is.. ) to charging taxi leaf, corporation car, car sharing services etc, you really can't use it.. they are more or less parking spot for others, not for who could need it, and the one you can use are ofter not where the map says and usually are not working, it's just plain useless, you can't count on it.. in no way you can count on it if you don't know someone nearby that can tell you if it really works.

Again: you're describing the same situation as the rest of mainland Europe. Stop saying things that apply to everywhere in mainland Europe as your excuse, and particularly in a conversation with someone who is in a country with an actual terrible charger density.

I'm not saying that you are better server or other, maybe you have another way of reasoning than us, but for me is simply plain stupid to put down more money

And yet your neighboring countries do. Hence the reason for my tutting at your 0.2% versus the European national average of 1.4%.

Again, stick with actual excuses, like how you tend to spend slightly less on cars than your neighbors, or how poor your EV incentives are. But stop this BS about you having unusually poor charging infrastructure, because you don't. Your infrastructure is unfairly dense compared to how little you actually buy EVs.

Except, of course, that Tesla already did it. 23 times. Plus five stores and two service centres.

You missed my point, we simply don't trust it by nature, the fact that tesla proven itself many times surprises us every times, someone is beginning to trust it.. but not someone that is not following tesla every damn day as myself, for them it's simply "we will see if they will do it.. when

Like they already did 23 times.

and the 2° service center has less than a month.. i would say that this can't count as "it's year you have all of this supercharger and service centers!"

Will you please stop acting like having five stores, 2 service centres and 23 superchargers in a country with a 0.2% EV adoption rate is some sort of grave injustice to you?

Your points about Italians not spending much on cars and the lack of incentives are fair. But the other stuff isn't even remotely fair. You're describing the situation that the rest of mainland Europe is in, and which is far far better than the situation we're in here.

I described the sentiment in italy, i don't understand why it should irk at you

What irks me is your whining about your situation when you're covered in charging infrastructure, to someone whose country is distinctly not. You have a perfectly normal infrastructure density. Yes, what is "normal" in Europe certainly deserves to improve, but what you're doing is akin to complaining to someone who has cancer that you have an upset stomach, or complaining about how sore your legs get after a jog to a quadraplegic. Your infrastructure is not your excuse for not buying EVs, because your neighbors infrastructures are no better, and they still buy them .

What a surprise, so wha't your car? and your friends car? just for the sake of it.. i would say what my relatives are driving, and then you would tell me what your relatives are driving, just to check no?

- Fiat Punto ( x 3 )
- Renault Clio ( x 2 )
- Alfa Giulietta ( brought used )
- Seat Ibiza ( x2, but one is 15years old )
- Opel Corsa
- Mini Cooper ( someone has to step up the game!

)
Now, of course all of these cars are with below 90cv, i'm waiting your reply.. it would be interesting

Lol, you really want to play this game? I have a broken 1st gen 2001 Honda Insight with ~800k km on it (just got done patching the roof - cracks running all the way on both sides) - and am now fixing the electrical system (but not the dead HV battery, since the car will be swapped out for my M3). And no, that mileage figure was not a typo; last I checked it was the second highest mileage Gen1 Insight on Earth. Meanwhile I'm stuck driving a 1993 Ford Ranger, a vehicle in a condition that when my older sister saw it for the first time, she couldn't stop herself from laughing. I'm not sure why, whether it was the rust, the big patches of peeling paint, the dents, the bumper hanging at a slight angle, the broken taillight cover, the door not quite closing right, the tears in the upholstery, the radio hanging out of the dash on its cord, ....

Again: stop throwing stones in your glass house. This "woe is me" excusemaking is just annoying

 

[cronosx]

While i disagree in most of what you said, i really don't have time to reply on every single point, but stop for a second and think: why?
Why should i buy an electric car if you have no way to move? how would you go to work? how would you go to road trip if there is no charging? why spend 3 times the price of an ice if you end up with a LOT of "problem"? just to say "i'm green"?
My goodwill can go only at certain lenght, if someone that has money to throw out the windows and want to do it, so be it, but don't tell me it's "ok" and "italy is behind".
I've said to you why we don't buy it, so if you think that i'm whining so be it i don't care, what i've said is plain good sense nothing more, until the conditions are favorable i'm not expecting someone to buy it, if in other contry they buy it, then i would suggest to ask them "why are you?", not why aren't we, because if they don't have "all of what we have in italy", and they still buy, it could means only 3 things:
- you have something to prompt you to do it ( incentive of whatever nature ) that we don't have and prompt you to buy
- the situation is not at all what you describe, or your life style it's so different that ours that you have different needing.. maybe you don't need to cover long distance in a day for a metting? maybe you use you company ICE car to do it? maybe the gas cost so much that the saving from local trip is enought to repay you? things like that
- you have no good sense, or we have too much good sense.. either way

 

[Carl]

As interesting as this discussion may be (I found road tripping in Tuscany quite easy actually) can you please take it to another thread? This one is about pictures of production M3's.

 

[AustinPowers]

Again: you have the same supercharger density as the rest of mainland Europe. Stop saying things that apply to everywhere in mainland Europe as your excuse, and particularly in a conversation with someone who has zero superchargers, and where even CCS / CHAdeMOs only go halfway around the country

(Why do I have the feeling that I'm going to end up having to repeat this way too often?)

I think most of the rest of us would agree that you already did.

And now, anyone, pleease, flood this thread with new pics of production Model 3s to end this bickering about Italian versus Icelandic SC density - pronto per favore.

 

[Dragon]

While i disagree in most of what you said, i really don't have time to reply on every single point, but stop for a second and think: why?
Why should i buy an electric car if you have no way to move? how would you go to work? how would you go to road trip if there is no charging? why spend 3 times the price of an ice if you end up with a LOT of "problem"? just to say "i'm green"?
My goodwill can go only at certain lenght, if someone that has money to throw out the windows and want to do it, so be it, but don't tell me it's "ok" and "italy is behind".
I've said to you why we don't buy it, so if you think that i'm whining so be it i don't care, what i've said is plain good sense nothing more, until the conditions are favorable i'm not expecting someone to buy it, if in other contry they buy it, then i would suggest to ask them "why are you?", not why aren't we, because if they don't have "all of what we have in italy", and they still buy, it could means only 3 things:
- you have something to prompt you to do it ( incentive of whatever nature ) that we don't have and prompt you to buy
- the situation is not at all what you describe, or your life style it's so different that ours that you have different needing.. maybe you don't need to cover long distance in a day for a metting? maybe you use you company ICE car to do it? maybe the gas cost so much that the saving from local trip is enought to repay you? things like that
- you have no good sense, or we have too much good sense.. either way

Italian Tesla Roadster owner here, from 2011. It was my only car for commuting and holidays and i racked up ~18.000 km the first year. It sure wasn't as easy as driving an ICE, but I did manage pretty well. Now with all the superchargers and new charging infrastructure, traveling with a Model 3 in my opinion will be a piece of cake.

 

[cronosx]

For all of whom disagree etc, just remember that i'm not the bad guy.
I ordered a model 3, the car i was waiting for YEARS and i'm eagerly waiting, counting the days for it and i intend to spend 3 times what i usually spend on car just to have it.. and of course i'm not on the statistic why? because the price was too hight for a tesla and the other electric car are just simply bad.
Of course i know how the supercharger are good etc, but we are talking broadly of "electric car", so, aside from tesla ( that has the big problem: cost too much for now ), you should consider that the other electric cars out there doesn't have the same range nor the supercharger infrastructure, so, again: why would you? because the question was "why italy has so little penetration of electric cars".
You can look bad at me but the fact is that the penetration is so low, and since you all tell me that i'm wrong, so your turn, why we have so little penetration? just tell me since i'm the only stupid person here and you know all.
Because telling me that i'm wrong don't solve the problem, just negating all evidence doesn't make them disappear.

 

[geometro]

For all of whom disagree etc, just remember that i'm not the bad guy.
I ordered a model 3, the car i was waiting for YEARS and i'm eagerly waiting, counting the days for it and i intend to spend 3 times what i usually spend on car just to have it.. and of course i'm not on the statistic why? because the price was too hight for a tesla and the other electric car are just simply bad.
Of course i know how the supercharger are good etc, but we are talking broadly of "electric car", so, aside from tesla ( that has the big problem: cost too much for now ), you should consider that the other electric cars out there doesn't have the same range nor the supercharger infrastructure, so, again: why would you? because the question was "why italy has so little penetration of electric cars".
You can look bad at me but the fact is that the penetration is so low, and since you all tell me that i'm wrong, so your turn, why we have so little penetration? just tell me since i'm the only stupid person here and you know all.
Because telling me that i'm wrong don't solve the problem, just negating all evidence doesn't make them disappear.

Please start a new thread.

 

[Zaphod]

Is there a max limit on number of people you can have on ignore? Just asking for a friend.

 

[jhs_7645]

Maybe I'm showing my 'forum age' here, but what happened to the days when a moderator would come by and move posts that were off topic to a different thread? I think we've reached a point where > 50% of the posts in this thread are not about pictures of production model 3s.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Maybe I'm showing my 'forum age' here, but what happened to the days when a moderator would come by and move posts that were off topic to a different thread? I think we've reached a point where > 50% of the posts in this thread are not about pictures of production model 3s.

All the pictures have been taken.

Waiting for tesla to make more cars to take pictures of. So....in the meantime......

 

[voip-ninja]

Maybe I'm showing my 'forum age' here, but what happened to the days when a moderator would come by and move posts that were off topic to a different thread? I think we've reached a point where > 50% of the posts in this thread are not about pictures of production model 3s.

Your math's a little off. More like 90%.

 

[gregincal]

Maybe I'm showing my 'forum age' here, but what happened to the days when a moderator would come by and move posts that were off topic to a different thread? I think we've reached a point where > 50% of the posts in this thread are not about pictures of production model 3s.

We've never in the history of this forum had a picture thread where more than about 10% of the posts contained pictures.

 

[ohmman]

mod note: thread created as a repository for off topic discussions in Pictures of production Model 3s.