Vendor Official Tessie app talk

[Utumno]

James, quick question I hope.

Does Tessie hold any information about AC charger power fluctuations, other than the obvious charge amperage ?

I have recently moved house, have had a new charger fitted, and have a relatively complex setup of tariff, external charge control through my electricity supplier.

My charger is regularly reporting that the Tesla isn't charging as quickly as expected, and in those periods looking at the Tesla app (and Tessie) I can indeed see the amperage being drawn by the vehicle drop from 32A, sometimes to as low as 4A but most often to 24A, 16A or 10A. The installation should be rated at 32A.

Really what I'm trying to find is logs to cross-correlate whether the Tesla is making the decision to reduce the amperage draw, or whether the Tesla is having a lower amperage supplied by the charger (or both, if both situations are happening). I've no known way of getting this out of the Tesla app, so wondered whether these low level logs are available to Tessie in some way for these kind of troubleshooting expeditions ?

 

[James@Tessie]

James, quick question I hope.

Does Tessie hold any information about AC charger power fluctuations, other than the obvious charge amperage ?

I have recently moved house, have had a new charger fitted, and have a relatively complex setup of tariff, external charge control through my electricity supplier.

My charger is regularly reporting that the Tesla isn't charging as quickly as expected, and in those periods looking at the Tesla app (and Tessie) I can indeed see the amperage being drawn by the vehicle drop from 32A, sometimes to as low as 4A but most often to 24A, 16A or 10A. The installation should be rated at 32A.

Really what I'm trying to find is logs to cross-correlate whether the Tesla is making the decision to reduce the amperage draw, or whether the Tesla is having a lower amperage supplied by the charger (or both, if both situations are happening). I've no known way of getting this out of the Tesla app, so wondered whether these low level logs are available to Tessie in some way for these kind of troubleshooting expeditions ?

The closest thing you can get is voltage. Is voltage dropping too?

This can happen when the charger gets too hot. I mention that because it's hot in a lot of places right now.

Plug into a different circuit and see if it happens there. If not, it's essentially a guarantee there's a wiring issue on the circuit or charger. You can further isolate by plugging into the other circuit but without the charger, if you have an outlet for that. Then you know if it's the charger or the circuit.

 

[Utumno]

The closest thing you can get is voltage. Is voltage dropping too?

This can happen when the charger gets too hot. I mention that because it's hot in a lot of places right now.

Plug into a different circuit and see if it happens there. If not, it's essentially a guarantee there's a wiring issue on the circuit or charger. You can further isolate by plugging into the other circuit but without the charger, if you have an outlet for that. Then you know if it's the charger or the circuit.

Thanks!

Voltage seems stable, and if I stop and immediately restart the charge manually in the Tesla app it goes straight back to 32A and stays there. Feels like a possible EVSE problem to me, hence trying to get some evidence and logs. Here’s an example of an affected charge from 56% to 90% overnight - I have plenty of others similar:

I’m UK based and the temperatures have been below average for the time of year, unlike many other parts of the world, peaking around 22-23 degrees C.

Will try some more problem isolation where I can.

 

[James@Tessie]

Thanks!

Voltage seems stable, and if I stop and immediately restart the charge manually in the Tesla app it goes straight back to 32A and stays there. Feels like a possible EVSE problem to me, hence trying to get some evidence and logs. Here’s an example of an affected charge from 56% to 90% overnight - I have plenty of others similar:

I’m UK based and the temperatures have been below average for the time of year, unlike many other parts of the world, peaking around 22-23 degrees C.

Will try some more problem isolation where I can.

If the voltage is stable it makes me think of a charger problem rather than a circuit problem. I'm not an expert that sort of stuff though.

 

[BMWM3Man]

Does this average account for cars with LFP Batteries? Surely the different batteries have a different "Original Capacity". One of ours is a 2021 SRP with LFP and I have a feeling this “average” is off. I hate that I am relying on a number that may be incorrect. What's the point?

This car has never been super charged and only charges at home. It’s degradation has always seemed low according to the Tessie app which doesn’t make sense to me.

My 2022 long range seems more correct and goes with the average.

Thoughts?

 

[jpbcx43]

Hey James,

Lifetime subscriber here. Use the app every day, especially on the watch! Loving every second of it.

Is there any way to tell why the discrepancy on Max Range? Not sure what changed, but my max range dropped just a few miles all of a sudden. I'm seeing this in both Tessie and Teslafi. Curious to hear your input:

 

[johnny_cakes]

Hey James,

Lifetime subscriber here. Use the app every day, especially on the watch! Loving every second of it.

Is there any way to tell why the discrepancy on Max Range? Not sure what changed, but my max range dropped just a few miles all of a sudden. I'm seeing this in both Tessie and Teslafi. Curious to hear your input:View attachment 963486

View attachment 963487

Not sure anyone can answer that question. Estimated max range goes up and down as the BMS adjusts its best estimate. You can try recalibrating the BMS as described here, How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity, but there's no guarantee that the estimate will go back up (it may even go down further if the BMS determines that it was over estimating).

Here's mine as a comparison, which also jumps up and down (and consistent with TeslaMate, which I also use):

 

[jpbcx43]

Not sure anyone can answer that question. Estimated max range goes up and down as the BMS adjusts its best estimate. You can try recalibrating the BMS as described here, How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity, but there's no guarantee that the estimate will go back up (it may even go down further if the BMS determines that it was over estimating).

Here's mine as a comparison, which also jumps up and down (and consistent with TeslaMate, which I also use):

View attachment 963493

Makes sense - thank you!

 

[James@Tessie]

Does this average account for cars with LFP Batteries? Surely the different batteries have a different "Original Capacity". One of ours is a 2021 SRP with LFP and I have a feeling this “average” is off. I hate that I am relying on a number that may be incorrect. What's the point?

This car has never been super charged and only charges at home. It’s degradation has always seemed low according to the Tessie app which doesn’t make sense to me.

My 2022 long range seems more correct and goes with the average.

Thoughts?

It shows the average for all cars that match on the internal firmware labeling (like model, trim, battery settings) so it should only factor in cars just like yours. However, I've seen that sometimes that labeling is wrong and it tends to be around the time that they change something on the manufacturing line.

If you look under the front right side of the car near the wheel well there's usually a battery sticker with some serials that you could Google and try to see if you find a better original estimate.

 

[johnny_cakes]

It shows the average for all cars that match on the internal firmware labeling (like model, trim, battery settings) so it should only factor in cars just like yours. However, I've seen that sometimes that labeling is wrong and it tends to be around the time that they change something on the manufacturing line.

If you look under the front right side of the car near the wheel well there's usually a battery sticker with some serials that you could Google and try to see if you find a better original estimate.

@BMWM3Man There's a long thread on Model 3 original battery capacities here, 2020, 2019, 2018 Model 3 Battery Capacities & Charging Constants, but I don't see any data about your 2021 LFP model. @AlanSubie4Life seems to have a wealth of knowledge about original capacities. Maybe @AlanSubie4Life can chime in?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

@BMWM3Man There's a long thread on Model 3 original battery capacities here, 2020, 2019, 2018 Model 3 Battery Capacities & Charging Constants, but I don't see any data about your 2021 LFP model. @AlanSubie4Life seems to have a wealth of knowledge about original capacities. Maybe @AlanSubie4Life can chime in?

Looks like it is a 54.7kWh degradation threshold (Approx). 55.1kWh FPWN.

This is for the SR+ LFP 253/262 mile version vehicle (that is how I interpreted this discussion). Which I think was only in late 2021? I actually don’t think there was ever an EPA document for this car (maybe it was because it was a very limited run?)

I really need to make a different spreadsheet with all this info!

Is your US made SR+ LFP charging to 253 or 262?

In the European LFP vehicle, I understand that the rated energy per mile is essentially identical to the US NCA vehicle. So I do not believe there is any reason to believe that the US LFP vehicle will be different. It appears the US and European vehicles both already have the increased capacity...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[johnny_cakes]

Looks like it is a 54.7kWh degradation threshold (Approx). 55.1kWh FPWN.

This is for the SR+ LFP 253/262 mile version vehicle (that is how I interpreted this discussion). Which I think was only in late 2021? I actually don’t think there was ever an EPA document for this car (maybe it was because it was a very limited run?)

I really need to make a different spreadsheet with all this info!

Is your US made SR+ LFP charging to 253 or 262?

In the European LFP vehicle, I understand that the rated energy per mile is essentially identical to the US NCA vehicle. So I do not believe there is any reason to believe that the US LFP vehicle will be different. It appears the US and European vehicles both already have the increased capacity...

teslamotorsclub.com

@BMWM3Man Based on this, I think it's fine to leave your original capacity where it's at or bump it slightly to 54.7 kWh but the difference is marginal. This will give you a degradation reading relative to design spec. If you want a true degradation number and not hide the initial degradation from excess capacity above spec, then you can punch in 55.1 kWh FPWN (Full Pack When New).

Here's the definition of degradation threshold.

@AlanSubie4Life Please correct me if I'm wrong in any of this and thanks for chiming in.

 

[jmccrack650]

Since the app update this week I keep getting 'Not Connected - No internet connection' message. Force closing the app and opening again seems to fix it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

then you can punch in 55.1 kWh FPWN (Full Pack When New).

@AlanSubie4Life Please correct me if I'm wrong in any of this and thanks for chiming in.

Yep, that all makes sense. In this case I think there are examples from SMT (just from memory) of vehicles with at least 55.1kWh available. It’s not always the case that cars reliably hit the hard-coded FPWN number (see the vehicles with 82.1kWh packs), but here it seems like a good approximation of the actual start point.

 

[AB874]

I just reread all 46 pages of this thread and am shocked that no one else has asked for this feature:

Can we have the option to display m/KWh rather than Wh/mi in the sections on energy/efficiency? I can't believe Tesla hasn't offered this option either.

 

[James@Tessie]

I just reread all 46 pages of this thread and am shocked that no one else has asked for this feature:

Can we have the option to display m/KWh rather than Wh/mi in the sections on energy/efficiency? I can't believe Tesla hasn't offered this option either.

I've never heard of this until you mentioned it. I've added it to my list.

 

[James@Tessie]

Since the app update this week I keep getting 'Not Connected - No internet connection' message. Force closing the app and opening again seems to fix it.

Should be fixed in the next build!

 

[ken830]

I just reread all 46 pages of this thread and am shocked that no one else has asked for this feature:

Can we have the option to display m/KWh rather than Wh/mi in the sections on energy/efficiency? I can't believe Tesla hasn't offered this option either.

I guess I don't mind if this option is available, but just know it's the wrong way to express efficiency -- Complete inverse, to be exact.

It makes mental math for efficiency gains or comparisons non-linear and non-intuitive... Going from 1mi/kWh to 2 mi/kWh is WAY different than 2 mi/KWh to 3 mi/kWh and is WAY different than 3 mi/kWh to 4 mi/kWh. It's completely obvious when you see it in inverted (proper) units... 1,000 Wh/mi to 500 Wh/mi (500 Wh less per mile) to 333 Wh/mi (167Wh less per mile) and then to 250 Wh/mi (only 83 Wh less per mile). And because it's not linear, your resolution changes as you go up or down.

And then there's the problem early on in your drive when your efficiency is either very high or close to 0 Wh/mi (you will see 0 mi/kWh or ∞ mi/kWh) , and especially if you are starting at the top of a big hill and using regen (descending a mountain, for example). You can easily express negative Wh/mi, but you end up with infinite mi/Wh, which is just unusable and unable to express or distinguish anything below 0 Wh/mi (0 Wh/mi looks the same as -50 Wh/mi looks the same as -150 Wh/mi).

Tesla got it right from the beginning with Wh/mi (Wh/km). Let's not follow all the idiotic car manufacturers. Most manufactures use mi/kWh but BMW & VW takes the idiocy even further and expresses power in kWh/h (kilowatt-hour per hour???!?) Are they stupid or are their customers stupid? :

 

[jj3884]

Maybe I'm missing it, but can the Bluetooth Key co-exist with the Tesla App on Android (Pixel 7 Pro) it seemed to have caused me problems and the Tesla app refused to connect

 

[jj3884]

I guess I don't mind if this option is available, but just know it's the wrong way to express efficiency -- Complete inverse, to be exact.

It makes mental math for efficiency gains or comparisons non-linear and non-intuitive... Going from 1mi/kWh to 2 mi/kWh is WAY different than 2 mi/KWh to 3 mi/kWh and is WAY different than 3 mi/kWh to 4 mi/kWh. It's completely obvious when you see it in inverted (proper) units... 1,000 Wh/mi to 500 Wh/mi (500 Wh less per mile) to 333 Wh/mi (167Wh less per mile) and then to 250 Wh/mi (only 83 Wh less per mile). And because it's not linear, your resolution changes as you go up or down.

And then there's the problem early on in your drive when your efficiency is either very high or close to 0 Wh/mi (you will see 0 mi/kWh or ∞ mi/kWh) , and especially if you are starting at the top of a big hill and using regen (descending a mountain, for example). You can easily express negative Wh/mi, but you end up with infinite mi/Wh, which is just unusable and unable to express or distinguish anything below 0 Wh/mi (0 Wh/mi looks the same as -50 Wh/mi looks the same as -150 Wh/mi).

Tesla got it right from the beginning with Wh/mi (Wh/km). Let's not follow all the idiotic car manufacturers. Most manufactures use mi/kWh but BMW & VW takes the idiocy even further and expresses power in kWh/h (kilowatt-hour per hour???!?) Are they stupid or are their customers stupid? :

View attachment 964394
View attachment 964395

I'd like the option to display it that way even if it's just to compare it with other EVs.

Also not sure why the distance travelled per unit of stored energy wouldn't be intuitive since we've been doing that in gas cars forever.

Miles per Gallon... Kilometers per Litre... Miles per Kilowatt-Hour... Kilometers per Kilowatt-Hour.

Oh I'm averaging 2 miles per Kilowatt-Hour. So I can drive roughly 160 miles on my 80kWh car. Cool. Pretty intuitive.