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Only way to use Autopilot now..Pic
- Thread starter ZoomFPV
- Start date
I may, or may not, have a certain device that has been deemed unsafe by the NHTSA, but I decided to test both my X and my S without any additional devices running 2018.21.9 to see how bad the nags were. I tried holding the wheel in numerous positions including resting both my left and right hand just on the bottom of the wheel and in 3+ hours of highway driving on each car I got a total of 6 nags for both. Now it may be different cars have different sensitivities, but both of mine see fine with minimal hand on wheel needed.
dark cloud
Active Member
thegruf
Active Member
@ZoomFPV - sorry but you get a disagree from me as attaching anything to your steering wheel is just a bad idea, and has the potential to be downright dangerous if if were to come loose.
When it is done simply to try to subvert a safety system designed by the manufacturer then this just makes it even worse.
Tesla instruct all of us and always have that the driver should hold the steering wheel, stay alert and remain in control of the vehicle.
Nothing has changed in that message.
It is incidents where this has not been the case, and no doubt attempts to override the safety features, that in fact are compelling Tesla to take ever more assertive steps to ensure the vehicles are used safely. So actually by doing this and then posting it on a forum, Tesla are incrementally forced to add ever more nags so your actions quite simply make it worse for the rest of us.
It takes absolutely no effort whatsoever to gently apply a little resistance to the steering periodically with the left hand resting at 7 o'clock on the wheel and this must be the preferred method.
As an aside where do you think you would stand if the police were to stop you, or you were involved in an accident and they saw an unauthorized device attached to the steering wheel?
When it is done simply to try to subvert a safety system designed by the manufacturer then this just makes it even worse.
Tesla instruct all of us and always have that the driver should hold the steering wheel, stay alert and remain in control of the vehicle.
Nothing has changed in that message.
It is incidents where this has not been the case, and no doubt attempts to override the safety features, that in fact are compelling Tesla to take ever more assertive steps to ensure the vehicles are used safely. So actually by doing this and then posting it on a forum, Tesla are incrementally forced to add ever more nags so your actions quite simply make it worse for the rest of us.
It takes absolutely no effort whatsoever to gently apply a little resistance to the steering periodically with the left hand resting at 7 o'clock on the wheel and this must be the preferred method.
As an aside where do you think you would stand if the police were to stop you, or you were involved in an accident and they saw an unauthorized device attached to the steering wheel?
I hope you never have an accident relating to use of AP. Tesla will use your post against you. They track this stuff.
@thegruf
Just to clarify again, I do hold the steering wheel mostly with 2 hands but the nags still come and then AP disables. This is due to may factors, my seating potion, being tall, etc. I tried everything already and i cannot get a comfortable potion to stop the nags. I am open to suggestions to solve this.
Here is what I tried.
Move seats
Move steering wheel
move legs
try every hand holding technique posted on the web
In the end, My wrist hurts and I cannot find a position. I have wrist injuries and cannot bear constant weight on it for long periods (BTW, this was the reason I purchased the car , for AP)
My normal driving position is both wrist resting on knees while holding steering wheel at 8 and 4 oclock
By the way, this is legal to have on your vehicle in all states. Just to stir up the people that keep saying that you cannot attach anything on your wheel. Imagine getting a billet version that has significant weight?
I’m curious: have you tried what I mentioned? Steering wheel down as far as it goes and as far out towards you as possible, with elbows resting on the armrest. It’s possible it’s just my body proportions but, at least for me, that makes my hands comfortably rest at 3 and 9 with few to no nags.
Note that it’s not a particularly great position for actually driving manually, so I keep it as a separate driver profile(I reiterate my feature request here to have a built in autopilot profile that it can automatically switch to when engaged, and back when disengaged, similar to easy entry)
thegruf
Active Member
I nearly added a bit about professionally designed addons like the knob you show or specialized devices for drivers with disabilities.
My point was more about just strapping a beanbag onto the wheel or jamming an orange into it, which if it came loose would be out of control in the footwell.
I do appreciate the point you make though, and more so that you openly discuss it rather than just slap pointless disagrees on posts without explaining your position as some seem to do.
To elaborate a bit further on how I use AP just in case it is of use to you, and apologies if you alredy know this, but the main thing is to provide a small amount of rotational resistance, white knuckle inducing grip is not required, just literally finger and thumb grasp and just apply the gentlest nudge to the steering way short of forcing AP to abort. I tend to rest my arm on the door rest, my hand on my thigh and just give the steering a little "wiggle" every now and then just sufficient to let the torque sensor/AP know I am still alert.
Would I prefer less nags on some roads, sure, but this is not too much hassle really and most importantly you can still relax far more than if you don't have AP on.
We all have to understand though that it is dangerous to Tesla (obviously the individuals inolved too) for serious AP related accidents, and with some of the external forces ranged against Tesla it is far from inconceivable those with a negative agenda could force a major change in AP use to all of our detriment.
I hope you too manage to find a balance that works for you. It can be done. Good luck.
you can attach things to ur wheel. what you cannot do is make modifications to your car meant to circumvent a safety feature, as the NHTSA just demonstrated by having that one unnamed device banned.
While you may consider AP unable since the nag update, the rest of us are doing it just fine. One Tesla youtuber went on a 1200 mile roadtrip without issues.
Clearing the air. Mine was not done to circumvent safety as it's not heavy to stop the nags when I let go of the wheel. Just works when I am holding the wheel my way.
For the youtuber, if he is shorter than 6 foot 4 and sits comfortably and has the perfect car. I agree it will work.
or me and my car, its not working.
This post is to bring awareness that the method is not working for everyone. I may be a small portion of the drivers with problem, but with today's world of equality, I am bringing my issues for consideration for a possible solution.
The thing I am wondering is that for those people who get zero nag, does Tesla really see that your hands are on the wheel all the time? Let's say they really check the force on wheel every 5 seconds. And if they are not seeing any 5 times in a row (25 sec), then they nag you. For the people who sees no nag, maybe they just happened to be able to apply a force in one of those 5 checks every 25 sec.
Let's say if that person got into an accident with AP. Can Tesla come back and say that our data (every single 5 seconds check pass/fail) showed the driver engaged AP for 1 hour and in that 1 hour, his hand was not on the wheel for 48 minutes (1 successful check on every 5).
Let's say if that person got into an accident with AP. Can Tesla come back and say that our data (every single 5 seconds check pass/fail) showed the driver engaged AP for 1 hour and in that 1 hour, his hand was not on the wheel for 48 minutes (1 successful check on every 5).
It doesn't appear to operate that way. If you get a nag and tug on the wheel, it'll clear pretty instantly. As mentioned, it's also the same sensor that registers disengagement of Autosteer, and that disengagement happens instantly.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
So part of the problem for taller people is that a driver profile steering wheel setting set to lowest then obscures the useful part of the IC (the part with the speed, for example).
Now faced with the choice between an RSI (repetitive stress injury) from either artificially applying torque or resting my hand where it is not normally positioned (e.g., across the crosspiece instead of along the lower circumference) *or* committing citrus abuse, I'm open to other solutions.
What is not acceptable is a nag every 15-20 seconds and worse, losing AS (Autosteer) after mere minutes *WHEN MY HAND(S) IS/ARE ON THE WHEEL 100% OF THE TIME*.
The AP1 alert was FAR more effective than this flashing IC border crap. Now, whether that was AP1 or just an older firmware version or both escapes me, but what we have now is just not workable. It also kills off one of the two remaining Tesla competitive advantages, and with it any word of mouth recommendations from me including to several friends currently considering purchases. No mas.
I'm still philosophically opposed to citrus abuse and all variants thereof. However, I draw the line at RSI risk from working around poor programming and implementation and especially regression from what was only marginally decent to begin with, all things considered.
So, as an open appeal to Tesla, either produce a far better alert mechanism that we can actually hear/see/feel in order to avoid being put in AS jail *or* come up with a better approach than "torque sensing" and make it available as a retrofit. A failure to accomplish either one is going to drive up citrus futures with a quicknezz.
Having said that, attaching a *legal* device as pictured above to the wheel at approximately 1900 (7 o'clock) might just be sufficient as a handrest/stop that would incur enough torque to dispense with the nags, the now ineffective nag warnings, and eventual AS jail. There are downsides to having a magic 8 ball or similar steering wheel device, though.
Finally, given the evident disparity amongst owners, although I'm willing to bet most owners do NOT drive long enough distances for any kind of fatigue to set in from artificially adopting a new hand position, it's tempting to ask an SvC next time what calibrations or adjustments can be made.
Meanwhile, I haven't yet exhausted the 6 different choices that include Comfort, Standard, Sport, and Chill Y/N. Maybe there's a magic combination that will lessen this insanity for the short term.
Rainbows and unicorns. Happy thoughts, happy thoughts. Kool Aid for everybody. Harrumph.
Now faced with the choice between an RSI (repetitive stress injury) from either artificially applying torque or resting my hand where it is not normally positioned (e.g., across the crosspiece instead of along the lower circumference) *or* committing citrus abuse, I'm open to other solutions.
What is not acceptable is a nag every 15-20 seconds and worse, losing AS (Autosteer) after mere minutes *WHEN MY HAND(S) IS/ARE ON THE WHEEL 100% OF THE TIME*.
The AP1 alert was FAR more effective than this flashing IC border crap. Now, whether that was AP1 or just an older firmware version or both escapes me, but what we have now is just not workable. It also kills off one of the two remaining Tesla competitive advantages, and with it any word of mouth recommendations from me including to several friends currently considering purchases. No mas.
I'm still philosophically opposed to citrus abuse and all variants thereof. However, I draw the line at RSI risk from working around poor programming and implementation and especially regression from what was only marginally decent to begin with, all things considered.
So, as an open appeal to Tesla, either produce a far better alert mechanism that we can actually hear/see/feel in order to avoid being put in AS jail *or* come up with a better approach than "torque sensing" and make it available as a retrofit. A failure to accomplish either one is going to drive up citrus futures with a quicknezz.
Having said that, attaching a *legal* device as pictured above to the wheel at approximately 1900 (7 o'clock) might just be sufficient as a handrest/stop that would incur enough torque to dispense with the nags, the now ineffective nag warnings, and eventual AS jail. There are downsides to having a magic 8 ball or similar steering wheel device, though.
Finally, given the evident disparity amongst owners, although I'm willing to bet most owners do NOT drive long enough distances for any kind of fatigue to set in from artificially adopting a new hand position, it's tempting to ask an SvC next time what calibrations or adjustments can be made.
Meanwhile, I haven't yet exhausted the 6 different choices that include Comfort, Standard, Sport, and Chill Y/N. Maybe there's a magic combination that will lessen this insanity for the short term.
Rainbows and unicorns. Happy thoughts, happy thoughts. Kool Aid for everybody. Harrumph.
My sentiments exactly. But maybe I am simply lucky. For whatever reason, I seem to have no special difficulty in holding the wheel in a way that produces very few nags (only one today in about 2 hours on AP) and that is natural and comfortable.
This is true. I’m 6’5” and can’t see the speed when on my AP profile. But then AS requires TACC to be on, so I’m always traveling either at my set speed or the speed of the person in front of me, so it’s an easy trade off for me.
The bigger problem I have is finding a place to comfortably fit my legs(taking off my shoes helps a lot there)
As I recall, before buying our first Tesla in 2013, the Lexus and Toyota vehicles we owned all required you to accept terms EVERY TIME you turned on the car and wanted to use the console display/navigation system. You were forced into accepting responsibility of your actions - every time.
With Tesla, this happens only once - when the AP system is enabled in the vehicle. After that, I haven't seen any terms/notices being displayed prior to engaging AP - and that's for any drivers using the vehicle (all but the first one never even saw the terms/notice).
Not recommending Tesla go as far as the other manufacturers to ensure the driver is aware AP is in beta test, and provide a summary of the limitations/risks in the current software - but they could certainly do more to ensure every driver is fully aware of the risks before AutoSteer is enabled...
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