OnRoute Charging Stations?

[Doug_G]

Preaching to the converted!

Unfortunately your analysis is probably correct. They'll install 30A chargers, and the ONLY people who use them will be the rare Leaf driver who wants to drive the length of the 401. (I know a few people who have done it. Patient souls!)

This will of course be used at some point to demonstrate that the market for highway charging does not exist.

 

[mknox]

I've got a meeting with the MTO coming up again to discuss EV issues and will continue to bring this up. The problem as I see it is that the various Ministries seem genuinely interested in EV adoption, but most of the staffers aren't owners and don't understand the nuances we are discussing here. Highway rest stops MUST have high power chargers. 30 amp units are for hotels! Another battle I keep having to fight is the perception that all Level 2 chargers are the same, and all Level 3s are CHAdeMO.

 

[mnx]

I've got a meeting with the MTO coming up again to discuss EV issues and will continue to bring this up. The problem as I see it is that the various Ministries seem genuinely interested in EV adoption, but most of the staffers aren't owners and don't understand the nuances we are discussing here. Highway rest stops MUST have high power chargers. 30 amp units are for hotels! Another battle I keep having to fight is the perception that all Level 2 chargers are the same, and all Level 3s are CHAdeMO.

Well if you discount Tesla superchargers since they're proprietary, 99.999% of Level 3's are CHAdeMO, at least for now.

I think even an 80A L2 charger at OnRoute stations would be inadequate. They should really be aiming to put in the biggest CHAdeMO or SAE Level 3 charger they can find.

 

[mknox]

Well if you discount Tesla superchargers since they're proprietary, 99.999% of Level 3's are CHAdeMO, at least for now.

I think even an 80A L2 charger at OnRoute stations would be inadequate. They should really be aiming to put in the biggest CHAdeMO or SAE Level 3 charger they can find.

Fair enough, but then we have the issue of the (non-existent) CHAdeMO to Tesla adapter that would be required.

 

[notailpipe2112]

I agree with you guys on the point about the subtleties of this stuff you can only appreciate being an owner. That's part of the reason that Sun Country as a company is fascinating to me because their whole model could only be born out of people that actually own long range electric cars (ie originally a Roadster). They have a forward-thinking simplistic approach that I suspect will further ensure they expand in the US. I'm a bit of a music guy, and it may sound corny, but I can tell you that I can only describe Sun Country's business model as 'punk rock', and I mean that in the absolute best send of the word. If they can continue to tweak their model to start making money off their ancillary businesses, I think the actual chargers will (continue to) end up being for them what the search engine is for Google...simply a free base to spread their brand and make money of other stuff. And just like Google (so far anyway) it seems like everyone wins, as we get free best-of-breed chargers and free best best-of-breed search engines. Maybe Sun Country will actually be a global Canadian brand to pick up the slack left by Blackberry....you never know, I guess.

My point to OnRoute if I was sitting in front of the execs right now would be simple....if you are going to all the trouble of ripping up cement, laying down expensive copper line, and building net new charging stations...then do it with a 2014/2015/future mindset and put in 80 amps+. Why go to the hassle of doing the work, only to have to re-do it in 3 years when the collection of Gen3 type cars hit the road from Tesla/GM/Nissan, all with 300-400 km range and legit $40,000 consumer price point. Once we have 1,000-3,000 cars a month like this selling in Ontario, the call for real solutions will be big.

 

[mknox]

ONroute Cambridge Westbound

... and here's me at the Cambridge Westbound ONroute station:

 

[Duckjybe]

And me at the Trenton Onroute on my way to Kingston.

 

[Jaff]

Is that one of those new induction chargers Mike? ...so small, I can't even see it! :biggrin::wink:

... and here's me at the Cambridge Westbound ONroute station:

View attachment 32612

 

[DRK]

Just got back from a Kingston run of about 300Km's each way. Arrived in Kingston with 80km's left and drove by the Charging station at St. Lawrence College, 2 30amp chargers there, but these will take forever. Then went to the Best Western on Princess at they have a single Sun Country CS-90 and no one was using it. Perfect for me as I had 6 hours to spare, but if you were tight on time the only real option for any long distance travel is SuperCharging Stations. Even if they install CS-90's your still looking at 70km an hour, which will add 6 hours to your commute. My other fear is when EV's start becoming more popular, your going to show up and there will be a line up. 80amps are the only way to go, and they should be installed at hotels or places where you might be for a few hours eating etc. 4-Series Hi-ways is Super Charger Country

 

[mknox]

4-Series Hi-ways is Super Charger Country

Or maybe CHAdeMO now that Tesla has an adapter. I don't think the ONroute stations can be Tesla exclusive as much as I'd like that.

 

[DRK]

Or maybe CHAdeMO now that Tesla has an adapter. I don't think the ONroute stations can be Tesla exclusive as much as I'd like that.

Agreed, and the only solution that WILL work is charging well north of 80amps in those locations.

 

[Okamian]

Hello all on here...

The TM Supercharger site still states that the 401 corridor will be served by their superchargers by the end of 2014. We have a post on here from almost a year ago from TM saying it's working on it.

I see the focus on this thread has mainly been on the OnRoute sites and on getting those hosts to be pro-active. I think it's worth asking TM more directly what their preferred business arrangement is. Yes, there's the issue of demand - is the route worth investing in yet - but presumably somebody at TM predicted that "end of 2014" was when they either wanted or needed to be ready on the 401 corridor - to either respond to demand, or to try and build it.

As an amateur (so to speak) with an interest related to my profession, thinking about this only for a week, I've identified two potential sites at 401 exits in the Kingston area, one semi-developed, one currently scrub land. Both would (just about) fit the criteria that TM has on this page here: http://teslafactory.wufoo.com/forms/supercharging/ The wording of the form essentially asks host sites or their agents to be pro-active - it would be ideal work for a local economic development office to take on, wouldn't it? So, that's going to be my approach for now.

My assumption is that Tesla pays rent for the long-term lease on a property (or section thereof), and pays for the infrastructure to be trucked in and installed and operated, and monetizes whatever it can whenever it can. The OnRoute management's approach and reticence is understandable, to a degree, and the one-side-of-the-highway thing is an understandable-ish barrier to the TM people in many cases along the 401. Maybe it's not a good fit.

TM - if you're still reading, perhaps you could give us an update on the 401 reality, and if you need help, let the enthusiasts know - we can probably help. MKnox seems well connected. I'm sure I can get the right information in the right people's hands, and with Google at hand, it's not hard to find suitable sites from the TM office itself, I don't suppose.

Interested to hear any updates people might have.

 

[tesltoronto]

Ontario, Canada: Ev chargers in the "onroute" service centres.

There are 19 Service Centres on Highway 401 operated by Onroute (onroute.ca). I know we are, for the most part, covered by the six superchargers on this highway. But I think it would be great if there are EV chargers at these service centres as well - since it would be great to get an extra charge as we use their facilities. Even a couple of NEMA 14-50 outlets would be great, if not an EV charger.
It makes better business sense for Onroute as well, since EV owners tend to spend more time at the Service Centres more than ICE car owners since charging takes longer and we are a more relaxed group of people!
If you also think that this is a good idea, please send an email to '[email protected]'.

 

[bint2k]

I thought this was part of the plan already?

 

[sandpiper]

There are 19 Service Centres on Highway 401 operated by Onroute (onroute.ca). I know we are, for the most part, covered by the six superchargers on this highway. But I think it would be great if there are EV chargers at these service centres as well - since it would be great to get an extra charge as we use their facilities. Even a couple of NEMA 14-50 outlets would be great, if not an EV charger.
It makes better business sense for Onroute as well, since EV owners tend to spend more time at the Service Centres more than ICE car owners since charging takes longer and we are a more relaxed group of people!
If you also think that this is a good idea, please send an email to '[email protected]'.

I do agree with that the Onroute centers are a logical place. There's one between Barrie and Toronto that, if I recall, has a station for a future charger.

I was listening to a radio show on the CBC a couple of months back and one of the Ont government ministers was online talking about doing just that. I'm glad that they're considering it but unfortunately it seems to be far more talk than action. Unfortunately for us Teslites, I doubt that we'll see superchargers. They're a "Tesla only" system and demand quite a lot of available power. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some 70A Sun Country type chargers though.

we are a more relaxed group of people!

I'm not sure that I'd agree with that!

 

[Doug_G]

As you can see, there already was a 6 page thread on the topic, and I have merged them.

Short answer, people have tried to get charging stations installed at OnRoute and failed. Summary:

• The Ontario government required that the sites be prewired for free EV charging stations, but apparently didn't require that they actually be installed.
• Ontario granted the franchise for car servicing operations to Canadian Tire, and for the food services to an American company. As a result, there is a disconnect - Canadian Tire does not benefit in any way from people staying to visit the restaurants. There is absolutely no financial motivation to install them.
• Canadian Tire's response to requests, and the Ontario government's response to inquiries, has basically been "someday".
• They wouldn't want to align themselves with any particular OEM, so I doubt they'd take up Tesla on Superchargers. Given that Superchargers are already being installed elsewhere, I think it's safe to say that Tesla has tried and been rebuffed (this is an assumption but probably correct).
• I fully expect that if Canadian Tire ever does install charging stations, they will install low power 30A stations, which are completely useless in a highway situation as they would take over a day to charge a Tesla. They would only be rarely used by Leaf owners trying to slowly make their way between cities.

 

[sandpiper]

As you can see, there already was a 6 page thread on the topic, and I have merged them.

• The Ontario government required that the sites be prewired for free EV charging stations, but apparently didn't require that they actually be installed.

Somehow this doesn't shock me. This is a government that just can't get anything right.

Sigh.

 

[tesltoronto]

Thanks, Doug. I didn't realize a thread already existed!

I also did not hear back from Onroute.

 

[keithz]

Southern Ontario Chargers - Why not at ONroute?

Why didn't Tesla build the SCs at the new ONroute service centres? While it's great that they've built them at locations with lots of eateries and motels (like say Division St. in Kingston). But wouldn't it be more convenient to build them at rest stops. The new ONroutes are pretty decent.

I also think that placing chargers at service centres will reduce chances of getting ICE'd. People more easily understand that it's fueling point in context. And the traffic is all transient. So lower risk of someone parking overnight in a Tesla charger spot.

 

[hingisfan]

I think the gov't owns all the OnRoutes.... Nuff said.