Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[Velianou]

You could be right. I have no great insights into the working minds of those that would make such decisions. In my scenario, EAP isn't exactly free as it's hinged on buying FSD at full price. But I get where you are coming from.

Though traditionally I'm not sure where Tesla has ever given any discounts, large or small. So you'd think this would get lit up if implemented and then people would be dreaming up all sorts of scenarios where they should also be given consideration. It's a slippery slope I think.

Alternatively, maybe Elon just puts in more superchargers close to where Ford, the Environment, Finance and MTO ministers live

All I can say is this.

The Tesla community feels for us. They would definitely see this as a Solid from Tesla. Having Tesla back its customers would be a great thing. Marketed as we have are customers back. Cost would be nominal on the Companies books.

 

[Chanrhc]

Guys. CBC just called me saying they want to go film me getting my car tomorrow... what should I tell them? I want to represent all of us...

Tell him there are many of us still waiting for our cars and unsure whether or not we will receive the incentive. And for those not receiving it, some of us, (myself included), can no longer afford the car, have already spent the money for the charger (which will not qualify without the car), and already taken a financial hit to try and come up with the money. There are those of us that don't just want the incentive, they need it and specifically targeting Tesla is unfair.

 

[egdeen]

Guys. CBC just called me saying they want to go film me getting my car tomorrow... what should I tell them? I want to represent all of us...

Some thoughts:

• We all signed the SAME OMVIC regulated contracts as other customers buying from the dealership. How could the government just suddenly create a new definition for dealership that is different from OMVIC?
• ON Ministry Of Transportation is PUNISHING customers buying directly from manufacturer.
  
• Hundreds of Ontarioian are facing a no win situation, all of a sudden they need to carry a much heavier loan. Even their car is in Tesla's parking lot.
• Premier Ford committed that his government will honour arrangements where contracts have already been signed and orders have already been made (Official News Release URL). I hope Premier Ford will do the right thing and fix this discrimination.

 

[felixculpas]

All I can say is this.

The Tesla community feels for us. They would definitely see this as a Solid from Tesla. Having Tesla back its customers would be a great thing. Marketed as we have are customers back. Cost would be nominal on the Companies books.

Another nominal cost would be free supercharging.

 

[TommyJohnCDN]

They are meeting me tomorrow to film my sad driveway with a half installed charger and no car as well :/

When they talked to me I said:

- I ordered the car with the rebate listed on BOTH the Tesla and Ontario Website
- They reassured consumers there would be a 'wind down' period...

Curious.. who is "they" and when did they state this? I only read that the pc government was winding down the green programs meaning putting and end to them, not that there would be a period of notice, there's a big difference there. The official statement is here.

 

[felixculpas]

Curious.. who is "they" and when did they state this? I only read that the pc government was winding down the green programs meaning putting and end to them, not that there would be a period of notice, there's a big difference there. The official statement is here.

 

[RossK]

They are meeting me tomorrow to film my sad driveway with a half installed charger and no car as well :/

When they talked to me I said:

- I ordered the car with the rebate listed on BOTH the Tesla and Ontario Website
- They reassured consumers there would be a 'wind down' period
- There is no difference for a consumer if I buy off a website or from a dealer. (side note, if i buy off a ford.ca website does that also get screwed?)
- In the end this car is stretching my budget but we felt we were doing the right thing for the environment.
- They are protecting dealers but not consumers with the wording of the law
- I still have faith they would change things and do the right thing.

This sounds great to me. I am in exactly the same boat. Charger installed June. MTO forms submitted in June with a VIN but hadn’t taken delivery. Tesla called yesterday to say my car is in. I asked for a couple of days but indicated my plan to cancel the order unless a miracle happens. I’ve written to every and all politicians and media.

 

[Velianou]

This sounds great to me. I am in exactly the same boat. Charger installed June. MTO forms submitted in June with a VIN but hadn’t taken delivery. Tesla called yesterday to say my car is in. I asked for a couple of days but indicated my plan to cancel the order unless a miracle happens. I’ve written to every and all politicians and media.

Is there a way to do a poll on here to see how many are affected by the EHVIP ending on July 11th.

I would really like to quantify this. give real numbers to MPP's and Media.

 

[Chanrhc]

Is there a way to do a poll on here to see how many are affected by the EHVIP ending on July 11th.

I would really like to quantify this. give real numbers to MPP's and Media.

Tesla would definitely have the numbers. The journalists I've spoken to say the numbers are 20+ but that only reflects the ones that have spoken to them...

 

[T3l5aFan]

Anyone considering moving to BC to get the 5K rebate if there's still any left?

 

[felixculpas]

Is that an offer for accommodation?

 

[T3l5aFan]

Is that an offer for accommodation?

It is not.

 

[Darthbenji]

Guys. CBC just called me saying they want to go film me getting my car tomorrow... what should I tell them? I want to represent all of us...

Say on camera that if you were picking up a $50k Chevy bolt you’d be getting the rebate. That the rebate was never about need but rather persuasion to green options. It was on the site when you ordered it, and that only covering the customers of ICE manufacturers was never once mentioned until the cancelation. Two wind down periods. One for ICE companies that lasts until September and none for Tesla. I’d mention too how much the car costs to dispel the notion of millionaires buying teslas.

 

[McFlurri]

Not sure if many of you remember.. but a few weeks ago I challenged the position on this. Perhaps it needs to be mentioned again?

*Quote from July 3rd*

I agree with many of you stating that a "purchase agreement is a contract".

If I may push back a little in this regard though.

This is a different organization (the government). So what leads us to be so sure that they are talking about "contracts" associated with an entirely different entity (the dealerships).. vs "Contracts" in the sense of commitments made by the government (like an actually submitted and processed application to the MOF).

As we all know, this program has a built in clause that "this program may be changed or cancelled at any time without notice". So even if we had a Liberal government, there was always a risk of losing the rebate as we most definitely have opened the floodgates with the Model 3. (due to the money running out from so many deliveries).

I would like to believe that our new government will honour submitted applications before a specified date (currently presumed to be June 29th), but am not so sure if they specifically mean "you purchased your vehicle before the cut-off date, so your good". An example would be for those people who just got the invite on June 27th and placed their order... but won't get it for 3-5 months. Then they submit their application, and wait another 2-3 months for it to be processed.

Someone did mention the fact that some dealerships (not all, but some), do apply the rebate to the price of the vehicle before hand, then apply that same day to the MOF. I feel like this may enhance the reasoning behind my "hope" that the government is talking about "Contracts" in terms of "Submitted applications", and not just "purchase agreements made before the cut-off date" (which is currently being interpreted as June 29th).

*end quote*

Only thing that has changed is the date from "June 29th"... to July 11th

So it appears as if my push back may have been valid considering the current outcome.

They ARE honouring contracts.. but not how many of you are interpreting them as.

*Reply to some questions so I don't have to keep replying individually*
Agreed. that's why my first sentence was ""I agree with many of you stating that a "purchase agreement is a contract""

However the purchase agreement is with another entity (the dealership), not with the government.

So there is a possibility that the purchase agreement "contract" is not what the government is talking about, rather they may be talking about a submitted application to the EVIP as the "Contract".

The twitter responses (all of them), have never specifically stated that they will honour your purchase agreement with Tesla. They used the exact same language in all of their responses about an orderly wind-down and honour contracts. But never once did they say "you are safe because you ordered your vehicle before "June 29th" (Now July 11th).

I understand that people asked the question.. but it doesn't mean they received any more than the same canned response as everyone else. (How many times is Justin Trudeau asked something and he completely dodges the question???)

I challenge you to find a response from Ford or the PC's that specifically states "Orders made with Tesla will be honoured". They always went back to "Contracts will be honoured before X date".

I believe my assessment was correct and they were in fact meaning "Contracts" in terms of submitted applications.. not purchase agreements.

 

[felixculpas]

Not sure if many of you remember.. but a few weeks ago I challenged the position on this. Perhaps it needs to be mentioned again?

*Quote from July 3rd*

I agree with many of you stating that a "purchase agreement is a contract".

If I may push back a little in this regard though.

This is a different organization (the government). So what leads us to be so sure that they are talking about "contracts" associated with an entirely different entity (the dealerships).. vs "Contracts" in the sense of commitments made by the government (like an actually submitted and processed application to the MOF).

As we all know, this program has a built in clause that "this program may be changed or cancelled at any time without notice". So even if we had a Liberal government, there was always a risk of losing the rebate as we most definitely have opened the floodgates with the Model 3. (due to the money running out from so many deliveries).

I would like to believe that our new government will honour submitted applications before a specified date (currently presumed to be June 29th), but am not so sure if they specifically mean "you purchased your vehicle before the cut-off date, so your good". An example would be for those people who just got the invite on June 27th and placed their order... but won't get it for 3-5 months. Then they submit their application, and wait another 2-3 months for it to be processed.

Someone did mention the fact that some dealerships (not all, but some), do apply the rebate to the price of the vehicle before hand, then apply that same day to the MOF. I feel like this may enhance the reasoning behind my "hope" that the government is talking about "Contracts" in terms of "Submitted applications", and not just "purchase agreements made before the cut-off date" (which is currently being interpreted as June 29th).

*end quote*

Only thing that has changed is the date from "June 29th"... to July 11th

So it appears as if my push back may have been valid considering the current outcome.

They ARE honouring contracts.. but not how many of you are interpreting them as.

I would say that mine and a few others twitter responses from ford/nation were in direct response to questions about our purchase agreements which is an electronic contract.

When new governments come into power and want to make changes, there is an established practice of winding down such programs in a responsible manner. Rarely is a group targeted like this.

They saw us as low hanging fruit.

 

[Velianou]

I would say that mine and a few others twitter responses from ford/nation were in direct response to questions about our purchase agreements which is an electronic contract.

When new governments come into power and want to make changes, there is an established practice of winding down such programs in a responsible manner. Rarely is a group targeted like this.

They saw us as low hanging fruit.

Yes

They Mislead us. Ford could of easily just said I do not know how we are going to wind it down. We will do our best to mitigate the consumer. We will do our best to honor all contracts but no guarantee. But he didn't. He said " We will honor ALL CONTRACTS"

If this was said then I would not have made an contract "order agreement" with Tesla. I would have waited.

 

[McFlurri]

I would say that mine and a few others twitter responses from ford/nation were in direct response to questions about our purchase agreements which is an electronic contract.

When new governments come into power and want to make changes, there is an established practice of winding down such programs in a responsible manner. Rarely is a group targeted like this.

They saw us as low hanging fruit.

Yes

They Mislead us. Ford could of easily just said I do not know how we are going to wind it down. We will do our best to mitigate the consumer. We will do our best to honor all contracts but no guarantee. But he didn't. He said " We will honor ALL CONTRACTS"

If this was said then I would not have made an contract "order agreement" with Tesla. I would have waited.

Agreed. that's why my first sentence was ""I agree with many of you stating that a "purchase agreement is a contract""

However the purchase agreement is with another entity (the dealership), not with the government.

So there is a possibility that the purchase agreement "contract" is not what the government is talking about, rather they may be talking about a submitted application to the EVIP as the "Contract".

The twitter responses (all of them), have never specifically stated that they will honour your purchase agreement with Tesla. They used the exact same language in all of their responses about an orderly wind-down and honour contracts. But never once did they say "you are safe because you ordered your vehicle before "June 29th" (Now July 11th).

I understand that people asked the question.. but it doesn't mean they received any more than the same canned response as everyone else. (How many times is Justin Trudeau asked something and he completely dodges the question???)

I challenge you to find a response from Ford or the PC's that specifically states "Orders made with Tesla will be honoured". They always went back to "Contracts will be honoured before X date".

I believe my assesment was correct and they were in fact meaning "Contracts" in terms of submitted applications.. not purchase agreements.

 

[Switzch]

Agreed. that's why my first sentence was ""I agree with many of you stating that a "purchase agreement is a contract""

However the purchase agreement is with another entity (the dealership), not with the government.

So there is a possibility that the purchase agreement "contract" is not what the government is talking about, rather they may be talking about a submitted application to the EVIP as the "Contract".

The twitter responses (all of them), have never specifically stated that they will honour your purchase agreement with Tesla. They used the exact same language in all of their responses about an orderly wind-down and honour contracts. But never once did they say "you are safe because you ordered your vehicle before "June 29th" (Now July 11th).

I understand that people asked the question.. but it doesn't mean they received any more than the same canned response as everyone else. (How many times is Justin Trudeau asked something and he completely dodges the question???)

I challenge you to find a response from Ford or the PC's that specifically states "Orders made with Tesla will be honoured". They always went back to "Contracts will be honoured before X date".

I believe my assesment was correct and they were in fact meaning "Contracts" in terms of submitted applications.. not purchase agreements.

Its not about the submitted EVIP application. For example, I could have received a car on July 9th and have not yet submitted the application and I would be fine.

 

[McFlurri]

Its not about the submitted EVIP application. For example, I could have received a car on July 9th and have not yet submitted the application and I would be fine.

true.

But i'm trying to base my interpretation on what the government was considering contracts before this new information was revealed.

I am challenging the position that people feel duped that the government said one thing.. but did something else. I don't entirely believe that is accurate. I believe that perhaps they were being purposefully vague by speaking of "Contracts", and we as the community were like "yay, a purchase agreement is a contract!". While true... it was probably not what the Ford government actually meant.

 

[Velianou]

Agreed. that's why my first sentence was ""I agree with many of you stating that a "purchase agreement is a contract""

However the purchase agreement is with another entity (the dealership), not with the government.

So there is a possibility that the purchase agreement "contract" is not what the government is talking about, rather they may be talking about a submitted application to the EVIP as the "Contract".

The twitter responses (all of them), have never specifically stated that they will honour your purchase agreement with Tesla. They used the exact same language in all of their responses about an orderly wind-down and honour contracts. But never once did they say "you are safe because you ordered your vehicle before "June 29th" (Now July 11th).

I understand that people asked the question.. but it doesn't mean they received any more than the same canned response as everyone else. (How many times is Justin Trudeau asked something and he completely dodges the question???)

I challenge you to find a response from Ford or the PC's that specifically states "Orders made with Tesla will be honoured". They always went back to "Contracts will be honoured before X date".

I believe my assesment was correct and they were in fact meaning "Contracts" in terms of submitted applications.. not purchase agreements.

The rebate form is not a contract with the Ministry.

Ford or the PC's wouldn't go into complete detail about Tesla contracts prior to wind down. He didn't have to once he stated "ALL CONTRACTS" If he would have mentioned only Tesla then what about all others. He made a blanket statement which covers all contracts.

He wasn't ambiguous he was plain and simple in his comments. Either come out and say that his comments were wrong or honor your word.

If CBC or Tesla say there are only 20- 50 people affected. then do the right thing.