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Ontario Supercharger 2017 Report Card - Grade is 50% (being generous)

wayner

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,816
1,387
Toronto
Can you provide a link to these commitments and promises that Tesla broke? I haven't seen any. They had targeted opening dates and Elon said they should complete the trans-Canada route in 2017. They didn't promise or commit to anything.
Ok they were targeted opening dates - but I also gave them credit for devices that are under construction. If you want to be strict about it their grade is 20% as they announced 20 SCs for Ontrio with a "targeted opening" date of 2017 and they opened four of them - Ottawa, Barrie-Bayfield, Sudbury and Concord. Sure they weren't hard promises but they did provide very aggressive expectations.

Here is their announcement from April: Charging Is Our Priority

In 2017, we’ll be doubling the Tesla charging network, expanding existing sites so drivers never wait to charge, and broadening our charging locations within city centers.
 

sakimano

Active Member
Mar 20, 2017
1,374
835
Ontario, Canada
Yes, like I said, they over-promise a lot. But if it weren't for Tesla, we probably wouldn't have competent EVs available today. Certainly the big automakers were in no rush whatsoever.
still don't see where you disagreed...you're agreeing. I was addressing their timelines and promises with the comment about the glacial pace at which those timelines move along (and invariably fall well behind the promise)

You're talking about their big picture ability to conceive of, launch and deliver a product in general from the sounds of it which is different. Even then with that being said I'm not sure how well they really stand up to the auto industry in general. Most companies show a new model, then begin deliveries within a year or 18 months (concept cars not included of course). i.e. the new Audi RS4 was unveiled in September and people are already taking delivery of them today. That's not abnormal either.

Tesla Model S
unveiled March 2009
deliveries begin June 2012 (3 years and 3 months later)

Tesla Model X
unveiled Feb 2012
deliveries begin September 2015 (3 years and 6 months later)

The Model 3 was officially unveiled in July 2017 and started deliveries towards the end of the year however the car has been teased for 3 years before this and they're still not in full production and won't be till early-mid next year.

So overall I don't think they're all that swift in this respect either. From infancy to industry force their rise has been meteoric, and from a market capitalization point of view, we've seen nothing like it in the history of the automobile
 

Doug_G

Lead Moderator
Apr 2, 2010
17,881
3,351
Ottawa, Canada
Most companies never reveal their new models until it's almost completed or is actually starting production. Typical new car design takes 3 years:

https://www.quora.com/Automobile-Design-How-long-does-it-take-to-develop-a-car-design-from-scratch

Arguably the Model S was rather more from-scratch than your typical ICE car; they were developing an entirely new drive train and packaging model (yes the drive train was derivative of the Roadster, but the chassis most definitely was not).

Model X is an outlier, in that IMHO the delays were an unforced error. Elon tried too hard to make it cool. No one had built falcon wing doors before, etc. If they'd simply made a more conventional SUV version of the Model S it would have launched a lot faster.

For Model 3 they are developing an entirely new production process for the battery pack. That's a rather more ambitious undertaking than designing the next version of the 300 series.

If they don't go bonzo on the Model Y I bet it will release more quickly.
 

sakimano

Active Member
Mar 20, 2017
1,374
835
Ontario, Canada
Most companies never reveal their new models until it's almost completed or is actually starting production. Typical new car design takes 3 years:

https://www.quora.com/Automobile-Design-How-long-does-it-take-to-develop-a-car-design-from-scratch

Arguably the Model S was rather more from-scratch than your typical ICE car; they were developing an entirely new drive train and packaging model (yes the drive train was derivative of the Roadster, but the chassis most definitely was not).

Model X is an outlier, in that IMHO the delays were an unforced error. Elon tried too hard to make it cool. No one had built falcon wing doors before, etc. If they'd simply made a more conventional SUV version of the Model S it would have launched a lot faster.

For Model 3 they are developing an entirely new production process for the battery pack. That's a rather more ambitious undertaking than designing the next version of the 300 series.

If they don't go bonzo on the Model Y I bet it will release more quickly.
will be interesting to watch. Model Y is a small SUV like a Q5 or something?

Add to the mix the Semi, the Roadster2.0 and now apparently a pickup truck.
 

sakimano

Active Member
Mar 20, 2017
1,374
835
Ontario, Canada
Ok they were targeted opening dates - but I also gave them credit for devices that are under construction. If you want to be strict about it their grade is 20% as they announced 20 SCs for Ontrio with a "targeted opening" date of 2017 and they opened four of them - Ottawa, Barrie-Bayfield, Sudbury and Concord. Sure they weren't hard promises but they did provide very aggressive expectations.
When I started looking in March when I got my car I believe these were available...

Windsor(ish)-Woodstock-Grimsby-Toronto-PortHope-Kingston-Cornwall, and Barrie up north.

Have I missed any?

Then they opened Huntsville and Parry Sound, and then Barrie2, Ottawa, Sudbury and Concord

From the looks of that they went from 8 locations open at the start of the year to 14 open at the end of the year.

If you look at the number of chargers...it's more like from 56 or so open stalls at the start of the year and then they added another 70 or so...more than doubling the network for 2017.

Add in the other 100 waiting at under-construction stites in Etobicoke, Markham, Hamilton, Mississauga and Pickering and you've quadrupled the network in about 15 months (assuming they all open by March31).
 

wayner

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,816
1,387
Toronto
I believe we are still waiting for four of the SuperChargers announced in 2017 - Mississauga, Vaughan, Renfrew and St Catherines. So don't get too excited about the new sites announced for 2020 - some of them might not show up for 2-3 years or so.
 

RiverBrick

Active Member
Mar 23, 2014
2,513
1,721
Mount Washington Valley
I believe we are still waiting for four of the SuperChargers announced in 2017 - Mississauga, Vaughan, Renfrew and St Catherines. So don't get too excited about the new sites announced for 2020 - some of them might not show up for 2-3 years or so.

That's quite an achievement compared to Quebec where only 8/20 of the sites first announced in 2017 have been completed. (Plus Levis and Riviere-du-Loup which were first announced in 2015.)
 

MarcoRP

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2017
5,025
9,707
Montréal
I believe we are still waiting for four of the SuperChargers announced in 2017 - Mississauga, Vaughan, Renfrew and St Catherines. So don't get too excited about the new sites announced for 2020 - some of them might not show up for 2-3 years or so.
Hm?
Mississauga got a Supercharger earlier this year
Vaughan already has a Supercharger sorta (Concord)
Renfrew is still on Tesla’s 2020 map, unknown status right now on when construction will be
Niagara Falls is under construction.

That’s 3/4. In my opinion, that’s not a failure

Also, Ontario saw a 39% increase in Superchargers this year while Quebec saw an increase of ZERO, so if I were you, I wouldn’t complain.
4F01DD1E-F723-499B-BC1C-D34D23533D95.jpeg
 
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wayner

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,816
1,387
Toronto
Hm?
Mississauga got a Supercharger earlier this year
Vaughan already has a Supercharger sorta (Concord)
Renfrew is still on Tesla’s 2020 map, unknown status right now on when construction will be
Niagara Falls is under construction.

That’s 3/4. In my opinion, that’s not a failure

Also, Ontario saw a 39% increase in Superchargers this year while Quebec saw an increase of ZERO, so if I were you, I wouldn’t complain.View attachment 495816
Yes the city of Mississauga has a SC - it is known as the Meadowvale SC. But the site that Tesla is calling the "Mississauga" SC is still over two years late. Both sites were announced in April of 2017.

Yes the city of Vaughan has an SC but it is known as the Concord SC. But the site that Tesla is calling the "Vaughan" SC is now over two years late. Both sites were announced in April of 2017.

The site being built in Niagara Falls is still not confirmed as an SC. Regardless it is not open and it is 2020, not 2017.

The Renfrew site is still on the list but not opened.

So these four sites, which were announced 32 months ago in April of 2017, are still not open. That is an unequivocal fact.

Saying that 3 out of 4 of these sites are open is factually incorrect.

I am not arguing what you say about Quebec, or any other province, but that is hijacking this thread which is about Tesla's progress in Ontario on the SCs announced on April 24, 2017. That is very clear from the title of this thread.

I love my Tesla Model S, which I have now had for five years, but Tesla continues to overpromise and underdeliver.
 

sakimano

Active Member
Mar 20, 2017
1,374
835
Ontario, Canada
Hm?
Mississauga got a Supercharger earlier this year
Vaughan already has a Supercharger sorta (Concord)
Renfrew is still on Tesla’s 2020 map, unknown status right now on when construction will be
Niagara Falls is under construction.

That’s 3/4. In my opinion, that’s not a failure

the Mississauga one you mentioned is actually Meadowvale, Mississauga is still pending
the Vaughan one is still pending. The one you mentioned is called Concord. There's supposed to be two up there.

So it's 0 out of 4.

edit: just realised wayner already covered that.
 
Last edited:

wayner

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,816
1,387
Toronto
I drove from Toronto to Manotick ON on Christmas Day and back on Boxing Day. I had to charge on 120V for 24 hours, charge at an L2 charger in Kemptville for 90 minutes and take the back roads to save 15km and drive slowly to make it to the Kingston Supercharger. My only other options was to drive 20 minutes north to the downtown Ottawa SC on Boxing Day. It sure would have been nice if the Brockville SC was open and then I wouldn't have had to worry about any of that mucking about. (That has nothing to do with Superchargers announced in 2017, but neither does driving from Toronto to Orlando).

My point is simply that they have yet to complete 4 of 20 chargers that were announced in 2017. Yes they have hugely increased the SC network, but they still have a long way to go, especially outside of the US. And Elon continues to overpromise in all kinds of ways- delivery time for new vehicles, SuperChargers, taking Tesla private, etc.
 

wayner

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,816
1,387
Toronto
There’s tons of people in and around Manotick with home chargers on PlugShare where you could have charged for a few hours. Should have posted here. I’m 5 minutes away from Manotick and my charger was sitting unused over Christmas.
I will keep that in mind but hopefully Brockville is done soon so it becomes a moot point.
 
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