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I don't usually post to these forums.. but well, I think Tesla owners are a different breed. Here's my public service announcement and endorsement of Farmer's Insurance Company.
- I purchased a Model S in Dec 2013.
- I purchased a service loaner version (P85+) that was pretty decked out (all but 1 or 2 options), had 7200 miles on it for about ~$105k (not including tax). Living in california, the tax was basically deducted.
- Also by buying the service loaner version, I was able to get the car in 24 - 36 hours.
- In Aug 2014, I was rear-ended while stopped at a red light. I lost the data on my phone which had images of the accident, but here's a clip from report from being dropped off at the Tesla approved, insurance approved body shop.
- The car would not move.. the rear passenger tire looked like it had "broken" and was angled in.. but the damage wasn't too severe (from the outside).
- After a week or so, the car was analyzed.. insurance company ended up declaring the car a total loss!!!
- They cited a part was damaged that Tesla wouldn't service
- So this kicked off the process.. Farmers basically said they would have to do a custom valuation on the car since there wasn't really a market. This took 2 weeks..
- I started to get anxious as this process was taking a long time..
- I finally got the total loss adjuster on the phone, and he volunteered the following information to me.
- Farmers had two approaches to total loss valuation in these circumstances. First, calculating a depreciated value for the car and paying that out. Second was to calculate a replacement value for the car.
- He mentioned that the valuation team had come back with an initial valuation, that he assumed would not be acceptable to me and pushed back on them without even coming back to me. He didn't even tell me what this value was.
- After another week or so, they came back with a valuation based on replacement value.. and ended up reimbursing something on the order of $115 - 120k all in.
- After they gave me this conclusion, I ended up going back to the Tesla dealership in september to buy a new car. They didn't happen to have any service loaners in stock which matched my configuration from before.
- It's worth highlighting that we have several insurance policies through them including Homeowners, etc, etc.
- The sales rep then mentioned to me.. "if you buy a new car now, and if hypothetically new features came out while you were still in queue, you could upgrade to those features without losing your place in line". Since I don't closely follow the forums, I hadn't at this point heard about dual motor or the auto pilot features... went back, read about them.. and of course, put in an order for a brand new Tesla.
- I took delivery of my P85D at the end of December with 20 miles on it.. have already about 1200 miles on it, just returned from a trip to Tahoe.
So the summary here:
- cannot believe what luck conspired to set us up with a new P85D.
- Farmers Insurance was amazing through the process. Highly endorse them.. happy to refer my agent to anyone interested..
- having once been on Costco / Ameriprise on a prior car, I highly recommend moving away from them... terrible!
*THIS statement is very interesting*. This sounds like some sort of dead man's switch. Does there exist a single part on the Model S that if damaged the entire car is a total loss no matter what???!??!?
You really lucked out on this one. Buying a car for $105k and for a used car valuation getting $115k-$120k back from insurance? WOW. I am floored. Makes me want to switch immediately... do you mind quoting what your coverage is and how much you pay per month or per 6 months? Was this an agreed value type policy (sounds like it wasn't)?
Thank you for sharing!! I immediately went to farmers.com to obtain a quote. Problem is that a policy with the exact same coverage as my current Ameriprise policy is ~$2900 per 6 months for two cars. We currently pay less than $900!
I am willing and ready to pay more for a better policy, especially one with better car replacement etc., but $4000 a year for the same coverage?
Gizmotoy
Active Member
I imagine severe damage to the tunnels the HV lines travel would do it. He was hit on the correct side for it. The HV lines travel right behind the rear passenger side door sill, where damage was indicated, I think.
anxman
Member
I think I know someone that worked on your case. He works at Redwood City Auto Body now (which is where I took my P85D recently for a paint scratch repair). The gentleman had told me the 2013 P85 had damage to the steel frame around the battery. Once that is breached, Tesla considers the vehicle a total loss. On his advice, I'm getting quotes from Farmer's now for declared value coverage because I don't trust Geico enough.
I just got my renewal quote in the mail for my 2013 P85 and I am disappointed. They insurance company increased my rate in Sept 2014 by $200 for 6 months. When I inquired as to why, I was told the cost for repairs was way higher in the DC, MD, VA area than they had anticipated. I replied that my record was clean, and they said yes, but the rates were adjusted for ALL Tesla owners (even those without accidents) to spread the cost between all Model S owners.
Today I got the quote for the renewal to take effect in March. The rates for items such as comprehensive and liability decreased slightly, but the Collision portion increased by $250, for a total insurance increase of $205 above the Sept 2014 increase. In other words, insuring a one year older Model S costs $405 more than it did last year. The Model S now costs more than twice what my 2013 Avalon Hybrid costs to insure, and three times what it costs to insure my Prius (on a separate policy) which my son has at college in another state.
BTW, the insurance for the Avalon Hybrid decreased by $15 for the next 6 months. That is what is supposed to happen as a car gets older, the insurance rates decrease, not increase. The Prius (which renewed in Jan 2015 on a separate policy because the car is garaged in another state where my son attends college and which lists him as a driver) increased by $3 because I added accident forgiveness to that policy. The Tesla and Avalon Hybrid only lists me and my wife as drivers (our son need not be listed because he attends college in another state). All three cars have $300K/$500K liability, $300K/$500K uninsured motorists, comprehensive with $250 deductible and collision with $500 deductible.
I've read too much about the high costs of repairing this car. Tesla needs to investigate to determine why, and if the repair centers are taking advantage of the owners. The Model S is being totaled in many cases for seemingly minor cosmetic accidents. I love my car, but if it were to be totaled, I don't think I would buy another one if the insurance rates continue to go up.
I going to call my insurance comapny to see what they say this time, but I think I'm going to have to look at other companies to see what they charge.
Today I got the quote for the renewal to take effect in March. The rates for items such as comprehensive and liability decreased slightly, but the Collision portion increased by $250, for a total insurance increase of $205 above the Sept 2014 increase. In other words, insuring a one year older Model S costs $405 more than it did last year. The Model S now costs more than twice what my 2013 Avalon Hybrid costs to insure, and three times what it costs to insure my Prius (on a separate policy) which my son has at college in another state.
BTW, the insurance for the Avalon Hybrid decreased by $15 for the next 6 months. That is what is supposed to happen as a car gets older, the insurance rates decrease, not increase. The Prius (which renewed in Jan 2015 on a separate policy because the car is garaged in another state where my son attends college and which lists him as a driver) increased by $3 because I added accident forgiveness to that policy. The Tesla and Avalon Hybrid only lists me and my wife as drivers (our son need not be listed because he attends college in another state). All three cars have $300K/$500K liability, $300K/$500K uninsured motorists, comprehensive with $250 deductible and collision with $500 deductible.
I've read too much about the high costs of repairing this car. Tesla needs to investigate to determine why, and if the repair centers are taking advantage of the owners. The Model S is being totaled in many cases for seemingly minor cosmetic accidents. I love my car, but if it were to be totaled, I don't think I would buy another one if the insurance rates continue to go up.
I going to call my insurance comapny to see what they say this time, but I think I'm going to have to look at other companies to see what they charge.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
I'd caution all the people looking into Farmer's because of Shan S's experience.
1) Different employees are going to handle things differently. You may find that the appraiser in your area does not do the same thing for you. Ultimately you have employees making decisions based on a particular situation and not all of them are going to make the same decisions.
2) I suspect that it's going to get harder and harder to justify replacement cost as the FMV for a Model S. Unless your policy stipulates replacement cost or you have an agreed value policy set high enough for replacement, you are not entitled to this. Now that the Model S used market is more robust and places like Kelly Blue Book are listing Tesla Model S vehicles, you shouldn't expect the insurance companies to be so unable to value the vehicle. Especially, with the P85D vehicles out and so many Model S vehicles showing up on the market.
None of this is to say that Farmer's is a bad insurance company. I have no experience with them. I just think that you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you insure with them and expect the same treatment.
1) Different employees are going to handle things differently. You may find that the appraiser in your area does not do the same thing for you. Ultimately you have employees making decisions based on a particular situation and not all of them are going to make the same decisions.
2) I suspect that it's going to get harder and harder to justify replacement cost as the FMV for a Model S. Unless your policy stipulates replacement cost or you have an agreed value policy set high enough for replacement, you are not entitled to this. Now that the Model S used market is more robust and places like Kelly Blue Book are listing Tesla Model S vehicles, you shouldn't expect the insurance companies to be so unable to value the vehicle. Especially, with the P85D vehicles out and so many Model S vehicles showing up on the market.
None of this is to say that Farmer's is a bad insurance company. I have no experience with them. I just think that you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you insure with them and expect the same treatment.
loganthefirst
Member
As someone who sells auto insurance, you need to get lease gap coverage. I hope things have worked out!
hockeythug
Active Member
I posted this in the other insurance thread but found this interesting from an article I read about the Edmunds story:
Jaff
Active Member
This is SOP by most body shops HT...is really entirely depends on your perspective...the body shop's perspective is that they are offering a discounted rate to the "little guy" who is paying the bill himself...
The contra opinion is that the body shop is over-charging the insurance company, when the insurance company pays for the repair.
I have a few body shops who are clients...these are small shops, and I know that they feel with offering this discounted rate, they are legitimately helping out the "little guy"...I agree with them.
When a body shop invoices an insurance company, they are doing so at the agreed upon labour rate for the shop's geographic territory which includes the body shop's profit and overhead...the body's shop's perspective is that they are "discounting" this rate to the "little guy" to help them out...
The contra opinion is that the body shop is over-charging the insurance company, when the insurance company pays for the repair.
I have a few body shops who are clients...these are small shops, and I know that they feel with offering this discounted rate, they are legitimately helping out the "little guy"...I agree with them.
When a body shop invoices an insurance company, they are doing so at the agreed upon labour rate for the shop's geographic territory which includes the body shop's profit and overhead...the body's shop's perspective is that they are "discounting" this rate to the "little guy" to help them out...
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
In the Edmunds case, what's interesting is how the body shop stated their hourly labor rate for steel body work was $60 while aluminum was $120, unless you're not paying by insurance in which case their aluminum rate was $60.
Hmmmm...
Hmmmm...
Here is an article on the web today by The Motley Fool about the outrageous costs for minor repairs on the Model S:
Tesla Auto Repair Bill: $10,000 for Scratched Aluminum!? (TSLA)
This is not what Tesla needs.
Tesla Auto Repair Bill: $10,000 for Scratched Aluminum!? (TSLA)
This is not what Tesla needs.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Standardcode -- do you know that the Connecticut Automotive Retailers Association (CARA) is using your story and your photo(s) on the home page of their new "TeslaCrash" website to fight the legislation to allow Tesla to sell cars in Connecticut?
see: TeslaCrash Website
and: Model S Owner: Owning A Tesla Is Awesome, Until You Get In An Accident…
They are "reprinting" an article from CleanTechnica: Model S Owner: Owning A Tesla Is Awesome, Until You Get In An Accident... | CleanTechnica I don't know if they even have permission to do that.
Also, neither article has an update with the resolution of your claim.
edit: Eh, I see this is already being discussed here: Anti-Tesla Website quoting TMC users/posts - www.teslacrash.com
Yeah, it's one thing when CleanTechnica was just reporting this incident as facts, but it's a shame to see it being used as propaganda by the opposition.
It would be nice if CleanTechnica would update the article with follow-up, but the TeslaCrash site would not follow suit I am sure. I also wondered about the use of his image without his permission or credit (CleanTechnica gave image credit, TeslaCrash did not). But I think free use rules for the purpose of reporting "news" would allow them to get around that. Even if standardcode requests they remove it, I'm not sure they are obligated to do so.
It would be nice if CleanTechnica would update the article with follow-up, but the TeslaCrash site would not follow suit I am sure. I also wondered about the use of his image without his permission or credit (CleanTechnica gave image credit, TeslaCrash did not). But I think free use rules for the purpose of reporting "news" would allow them to get around that. Even if standardcode requests they remove it, I'm not sure they are obligated to do so.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Looks like it's time to shift away from Ameriprise based upon the above, despite their inexpensive ($26/yr) gap coverage - available for the 1st 3 years of the loan, which is more than sufficient.
Also-rans to (re)call next from my list include:
Wawanesa - not quite into the 21st century, service-wise (one must remember how to write a paper check and put a sticky thing on an enclosure therefor in order to use this thing called the Postal Service in order to "apply for coverage, approval of which takes about 2 weeks". However, JD Powers likes their customer service, and they (Wawa) are supposed to have some sort of online/mobile interface "soon".
Encompass - someone from TM noted that they provide agreed-value coverage for $1200. Of course, the last time I heard similar, it was for Chubb, and Chubb won the prize for the most expensive quote at $4500/year for just $100K stated value (if a total loss). Of course, I live in an oft-maligned county in which admittedly fewer and fewer people seem to be able to competently drive - my dashcams weep on a daily basis. FWIW and with that said, Geico, Ameriprise, and Wawanesa were all within $100 of each other in the low $1K range (high limits, modest deductibles, every discount known to man - just no replacement value nor gap coverage except for Ameriprise).
Good luck to all. I'm not happy about engaging in this kabuki dance every 6 months (along with bitching at various telecom providers), but it seems to be the way of things.
Also-rans to (re)call next from my list include:
Wawanesa - not quite into the 21st century, service-wise (one must remember how to write a paper check and put a sticky thing on an enclosure therefor in order to use this thing called the Postal Service in order to "apply for coverage, approval of which takes about 2 weeks". However, JD Powers likes their customer service, and they (Wawa) are supposed to have some sort of online/mobile interface "soon".
Encompass - someone from TM noted that they provide agreed-value coverage for $1200. Of course, the last time I heard similar, it was for Chubb, and Chubb won the prize for the most expensive quote at $4500/year for just $100K stated value (if a total loss). Of course, I live in an oft-maligned county in which admittedly fewer and fewer people seem to be able to competently drive - my dashcams weep on a daily basis. FWIW and with that said, Geico, Ameriprise, and Wawanesa were all within $100 of each other in the low $1K range (high limits, modest deductibles, every discount known to man - just no replacement value nor gap coverage except for Ameriprise).
Good luck to all. I'm not happy about engaging in this kabuki dance every 6 months (along with bitching at various telecom providers), but it seems to be the way of things.
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