P3D Owner Sit-in?

[NathanielHrnblwr]

FWIW, I paid $114k for a Model S that's in most ways inferior to the Model 3s that are being picked up for a fraction of that price.

Please make a thread complaining about your situation. The 80+ page complain-o-thon is losing steam and this one is a "CHiPs 2017" remake of the original. I need more entertainment since my popcorn bowl is still half full.

Thanks!

 

[Knightshade]

The unfairness. Not between new buyers and old buyers because a contract is a contract but the unfairness in Tesla's dealings to make good on P+ but not P-.

But they didn't change the price on the P-

If both damaged groups where treated equally, it would not matter either way. But playing favorites is down right ugly.

Except both groups weren't damaged- certainly not equally at any rate.

One got exactly the car they ordered and whose price never changed.

The other got exactly the car they ordered and then saw the price drop 5k (before they even took delivery of it in some cases)

(Hint: that second group is more in need of "making good" than that first one)

 

[Perry]

Maybe people have missed that they are still selling, or at least trying to, their remaining P3D- inventory at the same price. There has been no price reduction for that trim level.

I don't believe this claim. It would be foolish for anyone to buy a P- for that same price today. Even if you don't want the wheels you can keep the brakes and sell the wheels. I mean Tesla can try to do this all they want. No one will byte unless something of equivalent value was also added on. (i.e EAP).

 

[Perry]

Nobody has made a real case for anything being "wrong" for those folks. (regarding P- group)

I have. Like many many times.

 

[juanmedina]

how can people say that the P3D didn't lose value.... just look at how much the 18" wheels and tires cost vs the 20" wheels and tires. If you don't think the P3D to hit I don't know in what world you live in.

 

[DrDabbles]

how can people say that the P3D didn't lose value.... just look at how much the 18" wheels and tires cost vs the 20" wheels and tires. If you don't think the P3D to hit I don't know in what world you live in.

My P3D took a larger hit the instant it was rolled off the delivery truck and into my driveway than the potential $5000 for the performance upgrade package. I thought the Performance 3 without performance upgrade was an odd choice, but figured Tesla was making it available for people that didn't want to have to buy expensive tires and replacement brake parts. Since the only place those will really do anybody any good is on a track or course, and most people will never take their Model 3 to a track.

 

[Knightshade]

I don't believe this claim.

That's the cool thing about facts.

They're still true even if you don't "believe" them.

You're welcome to think the fact the P3D- price hasn't changed is a bad pricing/business decision- but it's still a fact.

how can people say that the P3D didn't lose value.... just look at how much the 18" wheels and tires cost vs the 20" wheels and tires.

As I mentioned- numerous P3D- owners specifically called out not wanting the 20s as among the reasons they got the car they did.

So to those people (and future buyers like them) the 20s lower the value of the car as a selling point.

It doesn't matter how much the "by themselves" cost of those wheels are if the buyer explicitly doesn't want them (and with fairly good reason too- they're huge, heavy, and don't even let you run a wider tire- even elon admitted they were a compromise choice)

Ditto the brakes if you don't plan to take it to a race track- since they do literally nothing useful in street use, but cost more in maintenance and repair.


The argument that is a problem here is people insisting "Well, a more expensive version of my car got $5000 cheaper, so MY version is now worth $5000 less because people can get the better one 5k cheaper than before!"

It's not though. Depreciation doesn't work like that.

If it did the AWD and RWD owners would've also "lost $5000" in value by exactly the same reasoning and nobody seems willing to buy into that. But it's the direct application of the same argument.

 

[juanmedina]

That's the cool thing about facts.

They're still true even if you don't "believe" them.

You're welcome to think the fact the P3D- price hasn't changed is a bad pricing/business decision- but it's still a fact.




As I mentioned- numerous P3D- owners specifically called out not wanting the 20s as among the reasons they got the car they did.

So to those people (and future buyers like them) the 20s lower the value of the car as a selling point.

It doesn't matter how much the "by themselves" cost of those wheels are if the buyer explicitly doesn't want them (and with fairly good reason too- they're huge, heavy, and don't even let you run a wider tire- even elon admitted they were a compromise choice)

Ditto the brakes if you don't plan to take it to a race track- since they do literally nothing useful in street use, but cost more in maintenance and repair.


The argument that is a problem here is people insisting "Well, a more expensive version of my car got $5000 cheaper, so MY version is now worth $5000 less because people can get the better one 5k cheaper than before!"

It's not though. Depreciation doesn't work like that.

If it did the AWD and RWD owners would've also "lost $5000" in value by exactly the same reasoning and nobody seems willing to buy into that. But it's the direct application of the same argument.

Did AWD or RWD get free lifetime supercharging?

 

[Jeffers0n]

The argument that is a problem here is people insisting "Well, a more expensive version of my car got $5000 cheaper, so MY version is now worth $5000 less because people can get the better one 5k cheaper than before!"

No one is making that argument. The argument is that my car now comes with $5000 of free stuff. I’m guessing the only reason Tesla hasn’t price dropped the remaining P3D- inventory is they don’t want to refund the existing P3D- owners.

 

[whatthe2]

I know this thread has turned into a debate about who deserves and doesn’t deserve a refund, but great example of how protesting against a corporation affects those who have nothing to do with a dispute.

I posted earlier about the strike at the Sheraton.

Here’s a couple getting married that have to deal with the BS of people protesting a company.

Why affect them when it doesn’t have anything to do with them? Seems like this is the same as what OP is proposing.

Oh, wait, I know. Me first.

 

[kbecks13]

Can we just lock this thread and move on with our lives? It's really starting to get to me o_0

 

[Glamisduner]

No one is making that argument. The argument is that my car now comes with $5000 of free stuff. I’m guessing the only reason Tesla hasn’t price dropped the remaining P3D- inventory is they don’t want to refund the existing P3D- owners.

They just haven't flashed them to regular AWD yet. This is probably a handful of cars and not a priority.

 

[DrDabbles]

I know this thread has turned into a debate about who deserves and doesn’t deserve a refund, but great example of how protesting against a corporation affects those who have nothing to do with a dispute.

That protest was a very different situation. That was employees protesting their employer, not customers protesting and blocking guests from checking in or staying at the hotel. This thread is about an extreme minority of customers protesting Tesla to get money back, and in doing so potentially preventing new customers from taking delivery of the vehicles they've paid for and even possibly bumping peoples delivery out past Dec 31, costing them half of their tax credit.

Not to say I don't feel bad for that couple, but the situation in Hawaii is absolutely out of control. I've been following it somewhat closely, and while it absolutely sucks for people that booked the venue, etc., they get to fly home from their paradise wedding and make a living wage at a company that treats them fairly. If you'd like to know more about the situation than just a video taken from a balcony, Hotel workers strike grinds into second week as negotiations scheduled

I believe that location would be the Sheraton Waikiki. The wedding party could have moved the venue to Fort DeRussy around the corner, anywhere on Waikiki Beach, anywhere on Kahanamoku beach, Ala Moana beach park less than a mile away, or any of the green spaces just down the street from the hotel like the Ainahau triangle. I know it's not the fantasy wedding on the beach they dreamed of, but sometimes peoples homelessness is an issue worth striking over.

 

[Knightshade]

No one is making that argument.

I mean sure- except for the multiple people in this (and the several other refund threads) making exactly that argument.

Ironically.... you were one of them.

If you can't understand that the P3D- and P3D+ both depreciated by $5K because of the price drop of the add-on then it's not worth arguing with you over it. .

Apparently now even you think you were wrong

 

[Knightshade]

Did AWD or RWD get free lifetime supercharging?

Some did actually, some did not. Much like the P situation for a decent while (though they've changed the story on the P a lot more often)

Though I'm unclear how that would make any difference at all to depreciation- since it's not transferable to future owners.

 

[robski]

I don't believe this claim. It would be foolish for anyone to buy a P- for that same price today. Even if you don't want the wheels you can keep the brakes and sell the wheels. I mean Tesla can try to do this all they want. No one will byte unless something of equivalent value was also added on. (i.e EAP).

It's true. All of it.

I spoke to my local Palo Alto store and that's what they're still quoting. I can't promise tomorrow's price though.

 

[whatthe2]

That protest was a very different situation. That was employees protesting their employer, not customers protesting and blocking guests from checking in or staying at the hotel. This thread is about an extreme minority of customers protesting Tesla to get money back, and in doing so potentially preventing new customers from taking delivery of the vehicles they've paid for and even possibly bumping peoples delivery out past Dec 31, costing them half of their tax credit.

Not to say I don't feel bad for that couple, but the situation in Hawaii is absolutely out of control. I've been following it somewhat closely, and while it absolutely sucks for people that booked the venue, etc., they get to fly home from their paradise wedding and make a living wage at a company that treats them fairly. If you'd like to know more about the situation than just a video taken from a balcony, Hotel workers strike grinds into second week as negotiations scheduled

I believe that location would be the Sheraton Waikiki. The wedding party could have moved the venue to Fort DeRussy around the corner, anywhere on Waikiki Beach, anywhere on Kahanamoku beach, Ala Moana beach park less than a mile away, or any of the green spaces just down the street from the hotel like the Ainahau triangle. I know it's not the fantasy wedding on the beach they dreamed of, but sometimes peoples homelessness is an issue worth striking over.

Valid point. I'm here on business (alone) so I'm not terribly bothered by it. Yes, correct, Sheraton Waikiki (and the three other hotels they are on strike on-lsland).

It's not that easy just to up and move to other locations once you have plans in place. Just pointing out that affecting others (that have nothing to do with a dispute - regardless of employees or customers) is not the best way to protest. There are more constructive ways to get your point across to a company that you aren't happy with current arrangements.

I'm in that extreme minority (I have an AWD Performance - non-PUP), so I'm definitely affected), but doesn't mean I want to ruin another new owners experience by trying to block them from taking delivery of their car.

You mention, "This thread is about an extreme minority of customers protesting Tesla to get money back, and in doing so potentially preventing new customers from taking delivery of the vehicles they've paid for and even possibly bumping peoples delivery out past Dec 31, costing them half of their tax credit." It sounds like you are against this, as am I. Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but I am absolutely against this and think it's a terrible idea. If you read my earlier posts, I said it's a terrible idea and not good for anyone. It sounds like we agree, maybe you took my post wrong. If you are thinking I am in favor of this, that's not the case.

 

[DrDabbles]

There are more constructive ways to get your point across to a company that you aren't happy with current arrangements.

The difference, though, is that our agreement is complete with Tesla. We had a contracted price for a contracted product, money and product changed hands, the contractual obligations are met. The protest above is an ongoing dispute about an ongoing agreement which isn't satisfactory. So they aren't at all similar situations. I also disagree with your premise that protest isn't how to get your point across. When a company will not share the revenue that you enable them to generate, you take away their means to generate it.

I'm in that extreme minority (I have an AWD Performance - non-PUP)

Then you are not impacted by the price change, so you have no issue to complain about in the first place. So I guess I'm confused, but then this thread has jumped the shark anyway.

You mention, "This thread is about an extreme minority of customers protesting Tesla to get money back, and in doing so potentially preventing new customers from taking delivery of the vehicles they've paid for and even possibly bumping peoples delivery out past Dec 31, costing them half of their tax credit." It sounds like you are against this, as am I. Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but I am absolutely against this and think it's a terrible idea. If you read my earlier posts, I said it's a terrible idea and not good for anyone. It sounds like we agree, maybe you took my post wrong. If you are thinking I am in favor of this, that's not the case.

I'm against this suggestion, yes. I'm also against Tesla giving any money back to anyone that has already received their car. Since I have the P3D with performance upgrade, I'm one of the actually "impacted" people. And I find it absurd that complaining on Twitter has led us to this point. And we're now well down the slippery slope I predicted way back then. I suggested that P3D- owners would complain too, and that then people would complain they haven't received money fast enough, and then that other owners would complain about their pricing, and so on. Now here we are, all of those have happened in this thread alone. In my opinion, this is why you don't offer people money back after a transaction is complete.

Anyway, I was only pointing out that the situation you were comparing to with the video is entirely dissimilar to this one, so it's not a great example. That's all. Not disagreeing with the point that a sit-in (trespassing) is a bad idea.

 

[whatthe2]

The difference, though, is that our agreement is complete with Tesla. We had a contracted price for a contracted product, money and product changed hands, the contractual obligations are met. The protest above is an ongoing dispute about an ongoing agreement which isn't satisfactory. So they aren't at all similar situations. I also disagree with your premise that protest isn't how to get your point across. When a company will not share the revenue that you enable them to generate, you take away their means to generate it.



Then you are not impacted by the price change, so you have no issue to complain about in the first place. So I guess I'm confused, but then this thread has jumped the shark anyway.



I'm against this suggestion, yes. I'm also against Tesla giving any money back to anyone that has already received their car. Since I have the P3D with performance upgrade, I'm one of the actually "impacted" people. And I find it absurd that complaining on Twitter has led us to this point. And we're now well down the slippery slope I predicted way back then. I suggested that P3D- owners would complain too, and that then people would complain they haven't received money fast enough, and then that other owners would complain about their pricing, and so on. Now here we are, all of those have happened in this thread alone. In my opinion, this is why you don't offer people money back after a transaction is complete.

Anyway, I was only pointing out that the situation you were comparing to with the video is entirely dissimilar to this one, so it's not a great example. That's all. Not disagreeing with the point that a sit-in (trespassing) is a bad idea.

I think we are arguing the same point here. Terrible idea for a sit-in. If Tesla wants to give me $5k refund to buying a P3D-, I will take it, if not I will carry-on and not lose any sleep over it. I bought the car I wanted at the price I was comfortable with, I'm good with that and have no regrets.

My point of the post, as I've stated earlier, it's absurd to affect other future owners with a protest that affects those who are looking to take delivery.

Are we not saying the same thing here? Terrible idea to protest and stage a sit-in against Tesla. Move on and be happy with what we bought. Confused on your post and I think we are in agreement. I'm against this.

Edit: My point of posting the video is that it does nothing but piss off the customers that are staying at the hotel (or taking delivery of a new car in this case). Not good for anyone.

 

[MXWing]

FWIW, I paid $114k for a Model S that's in most ways inferior to the Model 3s that are being picked up for a fraction of that price.

Did it even have AP2?