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P85+ in the real world
- Thread starter dms
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
I appreciate your postings, some novice questions about what is causing the P85+ improvement.
Is the improved car handling (gone floaty feeling) only caused by the improved suspension?
Or is it also partly caused by the staggered wheels (wider back wheel)?
If not, are the staggered wheels only used to improve range while maintaining the acceleration?
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
From what I have gathered so far-
I believe a majority of the improvement came from removing bushing compliance, primarily in the rear lower control arm. Doing this decreases the ability of the car to pass certain stability tests in FMVSS 126 (the federal regulation regarding stability control systems in all new cars). The staggered wheels are principally to increase rear lateral grip so that the car complies with these regulations.
I am hoping to confirm all the above and more (like the exact differences between retrofit partial P+ and full P+) in a call with Tesla Engineering this week before moving to replace my car with a P85+.
I believe a majority of the improvement came from removing bushing compliance, primarily in the rear lower control arm. Doing this decreases the ability of the car to pass certain stability tests in FMVSS 126 (the federal regulation regarding stability control systems in all new cars). The staggered wheels are principally to increase rear lateral grip so that the car complies with these regulations.
I am hoping to confirm all the above and more (like the exact differences between retrofit partial P+ and full P+) in a call with Tesla Engineering this week before moving to replace my car with a P85+.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I am very close to going for a new P85+ given reviews I have read from trusted P85 owners. I'm still doing prototype (upper for now) rear suspension arms with high angular misalignment roller ball bearings for testing as well.
Question - one of the benefits of the factory + package is that it's supposed to offer the best of all worlds, including a better ride.
So if we get a retrofit of the performance plus package to an existing car, will the smoother ride benefits be there as well, or will it be the element of the upgrade that the retrofit cannot provide compared to a factory install?
So if we get a retrofit of the performance plus package to an existing car, will the smoother ride benefits be there as well, or will it be the element of the upgrade that the retrofit cannot provide compared to a factory install?
tuvow
Member
I wonder if the the P85+'s stiffer suspension is a downgrade in comfort during daily "normal" usage of the car. I realize it's hard to describe, but how does a P85+ compare to a P85 in terms of comfort and smoothness? I love high performance cars, but I'm not crazy about feeling every bump in the road. Can anyone comment on this? Unfortunately it's not possible to test drive a P85+ in Europe.
I find "Performance Plus takes one of the world's best sedans into supercar handling territory, while also improving ride quality and range" and "our vehicle dynamics team was able to achieve the rare outcome of simultaneously improving performance, comfort and efficiency" a little hard to believe to be honest. Usually performance comes at a cost of comfort.
I find "Performance Plus takes one of the world's best sedans into supercar handling territory, while also improving ride quality and range" and "our vehicle dynamics team was able to achieve the rare outcome of simultaneously improving performance, comfort and efficiency" a little hard to believe to be honest. Usually performance comes at a cost of comfort.
Erleichda
Member
Oreo
Member
miamimd, congrats.
Please share your excperience. I need to finalize next week, and I'm dying to hear more real life experience with the P+. Just like tovow describes, maybe most important(!
), how is it in daily driving? I don't doubt that the handling is has improved, otherwise it would just be a major rip off.
lolachampcar, where did you read about the reviews from other people P+ testdrives (except this thread)?
Just the fact that you are considering switching out your P with a P+ is pretty convincing in itself :wink:.
My wife don't want the 21"s so its hard to hide it if I order the P+. So she's definitely going to kill me if the P+ is uncomfortable
Please share your excperience. I need to finalize next week, and I'm dying to hear more real life experience with the P+. Just like tovow describes, maybe most important(!
), how is it in daily driving? I don't doubt that the handling is has improved, otherwise it would just be a major rip off.lolachampcar, where did you read about the reviews from other people P+ testdrives (except this thread)?
Just the fact that you are considering switching out your P with a P+ is pretty convincing in itself :wink:.
My wife don't want the 21"s so its hard to hide it if I order the P+. So she's definitely going to kill me if the P+ is uncomfortable
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I was told damping was increased which, to my mind, says you will feel a bit more of the road. I've not driven the P85+ so perhaps someone that has can chime with their impressions on ride versus P85.
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I spoke with a P85 owner in Ca that stopped by the Menlo Park store and test drove the P85+. I've been working with him on possible upgrades and trust his judgement. My decision (just listed my car on EBay) was based on his and Huibert's comments.
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I spoke with a P85 owner in Ca that stopped by the Menlo Park store and test drove the P85+. I've been working with him on possible upgrades and trust his judgement. My decision (just listed my car on EBay) was based on his and Huibert's comments.
I'm picking up my P85+ tomorrow as well. I've owned a few performance cars in the past- Porsche 996TT, 996C4, S6, M3, etc. and will try to draw some comparisons. There are a few Tesla guys around here who want to take the P85+ out for a drive. Maybe we can swap cars and do a back-to-back comparison. I think that will yield the best information.
I haven't tried eBay but I have had very good results from Craigslist. I expected the most spam from there but in fact sold two cars that way while Autotrader and Cars.com provided spam and tire kickers.
dennis
Model S Plaid
It was posted on another thread that the upgrade cost is $13K. It includes a new set of suspension components that have bushings that have less compliance, new wheels with the rears .5" wider, and new Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires 245/35/21 front and 265/35/21 rear. It does NOT include the revised dampers and the bigger front and rear sway bars that are part of the $6500 P+ ordering option if you are buying a new car.
From what I have heard, the majority of the handling improvement comes from the new bushings and the better/wider tires. The sway bars and dampers were not included in the upgrade because the parts and labor costs for installing them would make the upgrade package price prohibitively expensive.
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When I test drove the P85+ on Monday, I was focused on whether it fixed the understeer/directional stability/"floaty" feel issues that are deficiencies in the P85 suspension. I realized after I completed the test drive that I had not discerned any degradation in ride quality. I also own a McLaren MP4-12C and even in its "Normal" suspension setting I feel every bump in the road. So I'm certain that if the Model S had moved in that direction I would have noticed. Overall, I would describe the feel of the P+ suspension as "more taut" as opposed to "stiffer". By that I mean it doesn't move around as much in response to directional changes as opposed to it rides more harshly all the time.
Here are some insightful comments from a P85+ owner I just read on the official TM forums:
A subsequent post, answering questions about ride quality and acceleration:
If I were to buy another S (I currently have a "regular" P85), the + would be a no-brainer for me. Not sure about $13K for the upgrade though...
A subsequent post, answering questions about ride quality and acceleration:
If I were to buy another S (I currently have a "regular" P85), the + would be a no-brainer for me. Not sure about $13K for the upgrade though...
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I picked up my P85+ this afternoon. Big tesla grin. I want to spend more time with the car before drawing too many conclusions. Having said that, I went to a large open parking lot tonight and ... Well, broke in the brakes and tires. It's a large car, and you can feel the weight in turns. I did not get any sense of "floating" while doing high speed lane maneuvers.
More to come.
More to come.