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Did Tesla ever claim better than 3.2 or 3.2 seconds 0-60 while the 691hp claims were made?
Wow, this is fun. I cant wait until my fellow Roadster owners realize that their "carbon fiber" Roadster body has more than twice as much fiberglass as carbon fiber.
http://speautomotive.com/SPEA_CD/SPEA2009/pdf/KEY/K4.pdf
See page 14. The 3rd layer (non-woven glass) comprises about 75% of the thickness of the panel.
In other news I just found out my 4TB hard drive doesn't actually have 4TB when formatted.
From what I remember Tesla only promised a faster 0-60 time and a higher top speed. They said nothing about getting to that top speed a lot quicker or about any improvement in the 60+mph range.
This cannot be quoted enough times. Especially now since ot seems this is indeed what is now being offered as a paying option as lud-modeActually you remember incorrectly. This was posted on the Tesla Motors website, and has been posted in the TMC forums many times since then:
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"The P85D top speed is currently electronically-limited to 130 mph. In the coming months, we will be able to upgrade the car free of charge to enable a 155 mph top speed. This free update will be available for the lifetime of the car (not limited to the first owner). Additionally, an over-the-air firmware upgrade to the power electronics will improve P85D performance at high speed above what anyone outside Tesla has experienced to date. In other words, the car will be better than you experienced. This free upgrade will be rolled out in the next few months, once full validation is complete."
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Alexrov, honestly, you're in over your head. I've read the whole thread, and you still seem to be missing the point.
Sorka has shown you evidence that the P85D makes a peak of 414kw @ 90% SOC. That's about 555hp. I've independently corroborated similar kw numbers with my own P85D. This data comes directly from the car's API. This is the amount of power that the battery pack is dumping into the motors, and it's refreshed every 250ms while you do a run to produce the graphs that you've been shown. This is not the amount of power recorded at the wheels. If it were recorded at the wheels, you'd obviously get even less.
Point is, the P85D does *not* make 691hp (515kw) internally at any speed or state of charge. Now, you may be one of those who believes that this is no big deal and we should just shut up, but you also don't own a P85D, and probably didn't closely follow the announcement, marketing events or published information that was available when the car was introduced, so you're really not going to understand the perspectives of those who did.
To my knowledge no one with a P85D ever expected it to produce 691hp at the wheels, nor did we expect it to deliver a full 691hp for a sustained period. But the way the car was marketed, it seemed as though the car *would* make around 691hp, measured before drivetrain losses, at some point in the acceleration curve, and it clearly does not. In retrospect, I suppose Tesla was trying to get that across with the phrase "motor power" in their marketing, but this was lost on a lot of people and the way it played out seems a bit disingenuous to many folks who purchased the car early on.
Reading between the lines of the announcement of a $5k upgrade for P85D owners six months after they started rolling off the line, it would seem that even Tesla themselves were never quite happy with the way the P85D missed expectations they had for it in terms of performance over 60mph. I honestly believe there was a time that they thought they *could* deliver performance in-line with nearly 700hp, but just couldn't do it in a reliable way prior to launch and had to resort to a separate set of hardware upgrades to achieve what they set out to do in the first place. I don't blame them for the Engineering challenges, and I don't blame them for charging money for the new hardware as there was clearly a bunch of additional R&D expense involved and retrofitting it is going to have some labor costs. However, I still don't believe the best response to those early Engineering challenges was to come up with a creative new way to state horsepower in the hopes that people wouldn't be sophisticated enough to notice the difference.
Actually you remember incorrectly. This was posted on the Tesla Motors website, and has been posted in the TMC forums many times since then:
--
"The P85D top speed is currently electronically-limited to 130 mph. In the coming months, we will be able to upgrade the car free of charge to enable a 155 mph top speed. This free update will be available for the lifetime of the car (not limited to the first owner). Additionally, an over-the-air firmware upgrade to the power electronics will improve P85D performance at high speed above what anyone outside Tesla has experienced to date. In other words, the car will be better than you experienced. This free upgrade will be rolled out in the next few months, once full validation is complete."
--
From what I witnessed all that was done was the 0.1s reduction in 0-60times. 1/4-mile times did not improve on top of that 0.1s from watching numerous dragvideos..I would like the P85+ hardware for free then since that came out 6 months after my car was delivered. If we are asking for free things.
Did the OTA update provide zero benefit above 60mph or was it just so small it wasn't what people were expecting?
we without question didn't get the "improve P85D performance at high speed above what anyone outside Tesla has experienced to date"
looks like we will get it now, but not for free as they stated....
I would like the P85+ hardware for free then since that came out 6 months after my car was delivered. If we are asking for free things.
Did the OTA update provide zero benefit above 60mph or was it just so small it wasn't what people were expecting?
I'm speculating, that ludicruos update (at least something like that) is what was planned to be done by OTA, but Tesla found out, that the current hardware cand stand that many amps.
just sell your car so you can quit complaining. entitled whiners are really annoying.
No but but those who place orders prior to Tesla formally removing the 691 hp claim didn't received the car they paid for. They received a car that might make 555 hp at 100% SOC before any dc-dc conversion lossses or motor losses(we don't include the rest of the drive train because other manufacturers only rate at the motor shaft).
Even the Ludicrous upgrade, if they keep the same fuse margin moving from 1300 to 1500 amps will only make 640 hp at the battery.
So the difference is you got what you paid for even though something else was available shortly after. P85D orders placed prior to the spec changing didn't get what they paid for. This group of owners feel like they already paid for the upgrade. No not the promise of 0-60 in 2.8 seconds which I could care or less about but the promise of a car that can accelerate from 50-70 like a car that has 1 hp for every 7 lbs vs 1 hp for every 9 lbs like it actually is.
+1 on that!
After reading the entire thread I must say that this summarizes the situation in an excellent way!
Tesla Motors should really consider offering the upgrade to existing P85D owners for free. That would put them back on track in terms of trust from the owners community and not seeming to be too hungry for more cash when an "opportunity" comes to charge a few extra bucks. As far as I know they are currently doing pretty ok and don't actually need the money. As far as the $5000 for the upgrade goes - it sounds overpriced to me anyway if it's only fuse hardware.
I could argue Tesla promised a 'performance' Model S with sports car handling as well. The P85 does not drive like an M5 or performance car on corners.
Did Tesla say 691hp at wheels? I realize what they did was misleading by talking about combined motor output. The 0-60 and 1/4 mile times were known at purchase I believe.