I agree with @whitex in that regard. If you've got a sunk cost P85D you've already got most of what you'd be buying with a newer model.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
P85D -> P100D upgrade decision...
- Thread starter AllDigital
- Start date
I agree with @whitex in that regard. If you've got a sunk cost P85D you've already got most of what you'd be buying with a newer model.
whitex
Well-Known Member
And if you don't have one, buying a CPO P85DL will likely run you less than half the money of the P100D.
Interesting thread to see how everyone is thinking. I went P85 picked up just before the release of P85D , decided to skip P85D for the "next upgrade" but saw all of the 90kwh battery degradation issues and decided to hold on a little longer. Car was in the shop waiting for part for 3 weeks in which I had a fairly new P85DL which was great! Finally upgraded to P100DL recently, I won't comment on the cost-to-value to upgrade because its going to be subjective.
However, I will say if you can upgrade its definitely a better car than all performance variants preceding it. The refinement of the car overall is very noticeable, and to me makes the +suspension a non-factor just based on how the car feels in the corners. Again subjective but having driven lots of them I can say its my favorite so if you have the means definitely upgrade! The only consideration in the interim would be free supercharging, if that matters to you. This was one of the reasons I got mine before it went away, a few P100D's should be coming off leases soon so keep an eye out as they will have free supercharging on them.
Be mindful that there is a strong rumor that the "new interior" coming 2019-2020 will bring about further unification with the Model 3, and have 1 screen for both the Model S and X. This was a rumor at the beginning of the year that kept popping up and then v9 further confirmed it. If you are ok with that then wait, if not keep an eye on that CPO market....I am not a fan which is why I got it while I could.
, decided to skip P85D for the "next upgrade" but saw all of the 90kwh battery degradation issues and decided to hold on a little longer. Car was in the shop waiting for part for 3 weeks in which I had a fairly new P85DL which was great! Finally upgraded to P100DL recently, I won't comment on the cost-to-value to upgrade because its going to be subjective. However, I will say if you can upgrade its definitely a better car than all performance variants preceding it. The refinement of the car overall is very noticeable, and to me makes the +suspension a non-factor just based on how the car feels in the corners. Again subjective but having driven lots of them I can say its my favorite so if you have the means definitely upgrade! The only consideration in the interim would be free supercharging, if that matters to you. This was one of the reasons I got mine before it went away, a few P100D's should be coming off leases soon so keep an eye out as they will have free supercharging on them.
Be mindful that there is a strong rumor that the "new interior" coming 2019-2020 will bring about further unification with the Model 3, and have 1 screen for both the Model S and X. This was a rumor at the beginning of the year that kept popping up and then v9 further confirmed it. If you are ok with that then wait, if not keep an eye on that CPO market....I am not a fan which is why I got it while I could.
CraZ8
Member
I hear ya. The one screen solution would be a turn off to me, but the new pack, model 3 motors and overall nicer interior would probably compensate. Who knows we might be getting a HUD. I don’t think even Tesla has finalized everything yet with all the different tangents the rumor mill has taken due to the info that has dribbled out. The bottom line is many of us are in a wait and see mode. I will say Tesla has to be carefull as the competition is starting to catch up both in all touch screen cockpits and a slew of all electric cars poised to hit the market in the next year or soInteresting thread to see how everyone is thinking. I went P85 picked up just before the release of P85D
However, I will say if you can upgrade its definitely a better car than all performance variants preceding it. The refinement of the car overall is very noticeable, and to me makes the +suspension a non-factor just based on how the car feels in the corners. Again subjective but having driven lots of them I can say its my favorite so if you have the means definitely upgrade! The only consideration in the interim would be free supercharging, if that matters to you. This was one of the reasons I got mine before it went away, a few P100D's should be coming off leases soon so keep an eye out as they will have free supercharging on them.
Be mindful that there is a strong rumor that the "new interior" coming 2019-2020 will bring about further unification with the Model 3, and have 1 screen for both the Model S and X. This was a rumor at the beginning of the year that kept popping up and then v9 further confirmed it. If you are ok with that then wait, if not keep an eye on that CPO market....I am not a fan which is why I got it while I could.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I normally do not keep cars more than four years/48k miles. I too was considering what to do after my 85DL and ran into the same delima. Perhaps Tesla no longer needs this very narrow market segment and will not accommodate a build for us.
I drive my wife's 90D and find it does 95% of what my car does but with much better highway range (its the trip car). I also find that the novelty of launching the car has long worn off. Its fun a few times but really not that enjoyable after that. That leaves that 5% where my car is quicker and, thanks to the first gen suspension, much more fun to drive. That suspension is long gone as I am learning trying to source a new replacement left rear spring/damper assembly. That expensive P100D rides just like my wife's car. No thank you.
I too will march on with my 85DL, still smiling and I will wait for the inevitable refresh. I just have to find a solution to the spring/damper issue. Perhaps a set of junk yard A spec dampers needs to be acquired and stored
Tesla as a company will do better leaving this small niche behind (or to BMW, Porsche and Audi). One day a call will have to be made as my DL will be at end of life. Luckily, we are not there yet.
I drive my wife's 90D and find it does 95% of what my car does but with much better highway range (its the trip car). I also find that the novelty of launching the car has long worn off. Its fun a few times but really not that enjoyable after that. That leaves that 5% where my car is quicker and, thanks to the first gen suspension, much more fun to drive. That suspension is long gone as I am learning trying to source a new replacement left rear spring/damper assembly. That expensive P100D rides just like my wife's car. No thank you.
I too will march on with my 85DL, still smiling and I will wait for the inevitable refresh. I just have to find a solution to the spring/damper issue. Perhaps a set of junk yard A spec dampers needs to be acquired and stored
Tesla as a company will do better leaving this small niche behind (or to BMW, Porsche and Audi). One day a call will have to be made as my DL will be at end of life. Luckily, we are not there yet.
I'm pretty sure there is a way of upgrading the P85D to P100D by swapping out the battery. (plus some software work of course). Tesla most likely won't offer that, but I'd expect it's already being done by people.
I have 70kkm until extended warranty is over, then I'll probably be looking into that. Not really a fan of the new interior (lack of) options, the faceless look without the nosecone, now the non-opening roof, etc etc.
I have 70kkm until extended warranty is over, then I'll probably be looking into that. Not really a fan of the new interior (lack of) options, the faceless look without the nosecone, now the non-opening roof, etc etc.
Litigate28
Member
I have just the regular insane. I went to the Tesla P3D event and drove that car then mine right after with my wife and friends. Just a butt dyno, but everyone agreed the P85D was noticeably faster.
I kind of wish I was educated enough before I bought my car to search out a P85DL instead of what I got. But only kind of...love my car fully. Maybe in the future I'll try for a P100DL CPO upgrade.
That would be such a huge step backwards / downgrade that it would be non starter for me to consider a new S. It would certainly boost the resale values of the S with the current interior.
dark cloud
Active Member
...thanks to the first gen suspension, much more fun to drive.
.... I just have to find a solution to the spring/damper issue. Perhaps a set of junk yard A spec dampers needs to be acquired and stored
.
There's a question: Can these spec air suspension struts still be bought? Does Tesla have a supply of performance plus struts? or does Tesla only have access to one type of model S damper, and everyone gets the latest version? It would suck if one of mine blows up and they tell me I have to get 4 matching newer versions.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I had a LR hit which bent the LR spring/damper unit.
The choices were-
Replace all four to the B spec available in the US
Have an A spec shipped in from Europe where a few remain in stock
Find a junk yard A spec unit
I ordered from Europe and am awaiting the part.
So, yes, it sucks that Tesla does not support its products but this is the reality of the Silicone Valley mindset where customers are disposable. It will take time for them to realize customers in hard goods industries are not quite as disposable. They are just now coming to grips with having to actively sell their products and actually compete for customers. It will be a long time, if ever, before the company matures to truly appreciating the customer base/advocates they have today and, by that time, that base will be long gone.
As always, JMO.
The choices were-
Replace all four to the B spec available in the US
Have an A spec shipped in from Europe where a few remain in stock
Find a junk yard A spec unit
I ordered from Europe and am awaiting the part.
So, yes, it sucks that Tesla does not support its products but this is the reality of the Silicone Valley mindset where customers are disposable. It will take time for them to realize customers in hard goods industries are not quite as disposable. They are just now coming to grips with having to actively sell their products and actually compete for customers. It will be a long time, if ever, before the company matures to truly appreciating the customer base/advocates they have today and, by that time, that base will be long gone.
As always, JMO.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Elon always wanted Teslas to be like Apple devices, you buy one, chuck it after 2 or 3 years and get another one. This is particularly visible in how they handle trade-ins (and now CPOs) as an unwelcome afterthought, or the fact that they don't make or stock parts for cars more than 3 years old. Even Apple has realized that this model doesn't work as the price of the device goes up. Maybe Elon plans to get to a super cheap. sub $10K Model D (for disposable
) which will realize his dream.Elon always wanted Teslas to be like Apple devices, you buy one, chuck it after 2 or 3 years and get another one. This is particularly visible in how they handle trade-ins (and now CPOs) as an unwelcome afterthought, or the fact that they don't make or stock parts for cars more than 3 years old. Even Apple has realized that this model doesn't work as the price of the device goes up. Maybe Elon plans to get to a super cheap. sub $10K Model D (for disposable
The odd thing is I despise how Apple does business and that's the reason we don't own any Apple products. But we LOVE Tesla.
I was very pleased when Tesla open sourced their patents as Apple would never do that.
I really hope Tesla does not end up being arrogant and abusive like Apple.
As is, they certainly can put more effort to treating their customers fairly. They treat their CPO customers like trash and that's just wrong.
whitex
Well-Known Member
You must be a new customer or still just a fan. Wait until you pay thousands for things which never get delivered, get some lame excuse how technically the car is capable, or until a new version of hardware comes along and yours just gets forgotten, where Tesla can't even fix your car under warranty because they don't make the part anymore. Or, when you car gets slower and less responsive but Tesla doesn't care anymore because the new cars have better hardware so who cares if older ones don't work great. It just might change your feelings.
I just had a test drive of a 100D at the local dealership whilst my car (P90D) was charging. I was surprised at the very noticeable motor noise when accelerating hard and the road noise at >45mph compared with my 2016 model. I'm a massive fan of Tesla yet this certainly slowed my ambitions to upgrade anytime soon. I now feel that the next iteration of the S (hopefully 125kw +)will suit.
I just hope this isn't a decline in car quality despite the obvious improves to the interior which seem to constantly evolve.
Once again, this is all subjective so it could be me or an average demonstrator vehicle.
I just hope this isn't a decline in car quality despite the obvious improves to the interior which seem to constantly evolve.
Once again, this is all subjective so it could be me or an average demonstrator vehicle.
Last edited:
CraZ8
Member
You could have had a demonstrator with a tire that sported a more aggressive tread or a car with a bad window seal. Both scenarios would account for more road noise and perhaps an increase in perceived engine noise. I’d drive a few demonstrators to get an overall sense of that. But I think your waiting for a bigger battery is a smart choice, trading now not that much of a change from your present car.
Besides for the obvious differences between the P85D and the P100D are all of the stealth upgrades Tesla has made over the years. I've got a '14 85 and a '17 P100D and the difference is massive between the two cars. The 2017 has huge improvements in everything from fit and finish to HVAC performance. Its quieter on the road, doesn't rattle as much, has rear seat USB and cup holders, the seats are more comfortable and its much more likely to hit its rated mileage. That's not even counting things like AP improvements or the MCU2 (mine still has the original MCU).
Its not all roses though, the smaller frunk blows, and I really miss the bowling alley, the stupid console is such a waste of space.
Its not all roses though, the smaller frunk blows, and I really miss the bowling alley, the stupid console is such a waste of space.
how are the newer seats in your opinion? one of the things I dread when I upgrade is the new white vegan leather.. I have seen it in a few Xs in various show rooms and think it looks awful.
I am also not too thrilled to be losing free supercharging b/c where I live there is a hefty parking fee or a hefty toll to be paid in oder to supercharge.
whatever happens I am leasing my next one since the tax credit has started to phase out and that is less of a consideration. my poor car has been in more accidents than I care to talk about and while she gets repaired at the worlds best body shop and is always returned "good as new" to me.. on paper at least the diminished value has started to take it's toll.
with a lease, that will be someone else's problem.
The seat covering or the design?
I think the 'vegan leather' is an improvement over the old stuff. Its way more durable and feels a lot nicer. The old seats looked old and worn pretty quickly, but the new ones still look brand new after more than a year. I've got the cream color and haven't seen any discoloration or staining.
The seat design I have mixed feelings on. For short trips (less than an hour) they feel fantastic. They are very nicely bolster and super comfortable. However after an hour they start to bother my back and I get a little antsy in them. The old seat design isn't nearly as supportive and certainly doesn't feel as sporty. However I've gone on long road trips and still felt great at the end of the day.
MarcG
Active Member
Thank you for making and sharing that video. You mentioned several times that new were models are smaller (and potentially lighter), however I did not realize Tesla made any dimension changes to the Model S.
Besides the interior space due to more bolstered seats and the center console, can you point me to a source that shows exterior dimension changes?
Similar threads
