P85D vs. P85 Efficiency Testing

[wk057]

Working on inputting the "Since Last Charge" numbers from the videos into a spreadsheet for each mile. Lets me get a Wh value for each individual mile.

Once I'm done, I can apply the 0.7% discrepancy to the P85D's distance values and do a nice overlay graph that may be useful. We'll see.

About 25% done inputting the data.

 

[Bighorn]

Your Wh/rated mile works out to 34.1/122= 280 for the P85 and 39.5/132 = 300 for the P85D. Could be slightly confounded (underestimated) by the lunch stop.

(39.5-34.1)kWh/34.1kWh= 15.8% increased energy usage.

 

[Todd Burch]

The two sets of tires themselves are different (Michelins vs. Continentals), which can easily cause a difference of a few %.

Edit: the suspension differences could contribute some discrepancy too.

 

[wk057]

Still typing in the data... *yawn*

 

[wk057]

OK, data entry complete finally.

I'll work on doing some calculations on the data in a bit.

P85 vs P85D Efficiency Data - Google Sheets

 

[Bighorn]

OK, data entry complete finally.

I'll work on doing some calculations on the data in a bit.

P85 vs P85D Efficiency Data - Google Sheets

Why does your P85D data go to 42kWh instead of 39?

 

[wk057]

Why does your P85D data go to 42kWh instead of 39?

I'm not seeing this...?

Last entry for P85D is 39.0, when the GoPro went dead.

 

[Bighorn]

I'm not seeing this...?

Last entry for P85D is 39.0, when the GoPro went dead.

Sorry, on line 112, I mistook Trip B miles for Energy. Your first 46 fields seem to be duplicates and then something goes awry at line 47. Either that, or I'm reading it wrong.

 

[wk057]

Sorry, on line 112, I mistook Trip B miles for Energy. Your first 46 fields seem to be duplicates and then something goes awry at line 47. Either that, or I'm reading it wrong.

Looks fine. The first part of Trip B was the same as Since Last Charge, then Trip B was reset.

 

[Bighorn]

Looks fine. The first part of Trip B was the same as Since Last Charge, then Trip B was reset.

Now I'm with you--was only seeing the P85 page, not the tabs at the bottom for P85D or Calculations.

 

[scottf200]

The two sets of tires themselves are different (Michelins vs. Continentals), which can easily cause a difference of a few %.

Mentioned in the added Q&A

Answers to Common Questions
Q: Which drive unit is able to sleep, front or rear?
With the P85D we put the large, rear, drive unit to sleep while cruising. We choose to sleep the rear unit since the new generation small front drive unit is actually more efficient at converting battery DC electricity into mechanical shaft power. So we benefit from using the small, front drive unit more of the time when it can provide all of the torque requested. In the 85D both drive units are the same and we can sleep either unit, front or rear to best optimize efficiency.

Q: Are standard or cyclone 19" wheels more efficient?
Cyclone 19" wheels are slightly more efficient than the standard, base, 19" wheels. This efficiency gain comes from an aerodynamic improvement of the wheel itself and the 19" tire effects are separate. The aerodynamic benefits are most pronounced at higher speeds so you will see the biggest gains at 65mph or 75mph cruising. For instance, the 19" Cyclone wheel gives roughly 2% more range than the 19" standard wheel at 65mph. The difference will be less than 1% in city driving however.

Q: What are the best 19" tires?
The Michelin Primacy 19" tires give roughly 3% more range than the Goodyear 19" tires at 65 mph. The difference is greater, up to perhaps 5% difference in range, in slower city driving. We do not have any suitable production tires better than the Michelin Primacy to offer yet but are constantly evaluating and testing new options. Many tires claim larger improvements than we actually see in real world testing so beware of aftermarket label specifications. Tires are an area of increasing focus for us as a company.

Q: Do wheel mass differences contribute to range differences?
The mass differences between the various wheel and tire options are quite small. The variance in range is created from rolling and aerodynamic differences between them. (see answers above)

Q: Will we offer a dedicated Aero Wheel design again?
The customer take rate on our previous Aero Wheel design was so low that we could not justify continuing the production and supply chain complexity of it. In general we are working to simplify the complexity of options available and eliminate those where we see fewer than 1/20 people choosing an option. In addition, the newer Cyclone wheel captures much of the aerodynamic benefit of that the dedicated Aero Wheel design did over the standard, base 19" wheel.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Very good blog update from Tesla, thank you.

And wk057, thank you for the data and keep up the good work!

 

[wk057]

Still working on video editing for my videos. Syncing up the dash cam videos with the GoPro videos is turning out to be a huge pain, so, might skip that part...

I managed to pull the full dash of each car up using perspective correction from the GoPro videos with decent results, and those are actually easy to sync to within a frame or two.

 

[Chris_WDO]

wk057, thank you very much for your time and effort you put into this, I really appreaciate that! )

 

[jerry33]

wk057, thank you very much for your time and effort you put into this, I really appreaciate that! )

I second that. Every additional bit that we know about the car makes us more effective drivers.

 

[kennybobby]

Is there an app on the center console to indicate what size tires and wheels are on the vehicle? How does the vehicle measure or calculate the vehicle speed or distance travelled--does it use the ABS wheel speed sensors, or use motor rpm and gearbox ratio, etc.?

The reason i bring this up is that your P85D rear tires are larger than the 85 standard. Maybe this contributes somewhat to the issue. What is hard to reconcile is how your odometer reads MORE miles than the yellow car--if they are counting wheel revolutions then your car should have shown LESS. And, on the same cruise settings your car should have been overtaking her car.

In the patent for the AWD torque control it is interesting that they don't use the term "measure" for vehicle speed, but rather it is always called 'calculated' speed. Link to patent here: Dual Motor (and Triple) Torque Control for Maximum Efficiency


diam config width prof diam. ft/revrevs/mile delta %
19 winter 245 45 27.68 7.25 728.6 0.00
21 winter 245 35 27.75 7.27 726.7 -0.26
21 wk057 D f 245 35 27.75 7.27 726.7 -0.26
21 wk057 D r 265 35 28.30 7.41 712.6 -2.20

Don't know why it loses the spacing...

 

[scottf200]

diam config width prof _ diam. ft/rev _ revs/mile delta %
19 winter __ 245 __ 45 _ 27.68 _ 7.25 _ 728.6 __ +0.00
21 winter __ 245 __ 35 _ 27.75 _ 7.27 _ 726.7 __ -0.26
21 wk057 D f 245 __ 35 _ 27.75 _ 7.27 _ 726.7 __ -0.26
21 wk057 D r 265 __ 35 _ 28.30 _ 7.41 _ 712.6 __ -2.20
Don't know why it loses the spacing...

Used courier and _

 

[wk057]

Is there an app on the center console to indicate what size tires and wheels are on the vehicle? How does the vehicle measure or calculate the vehicle speed or distance travelled--does it use the ABS wheel speed sensors, or use motor rpm and gearbox ratio, etc.?

The reason i bring this up is that your P85D rear tires are larger than the 85 standard. Maybe this contributes somewhat to the issue. What is hard to reconcile is how your odometer reads MORE miles than the yellow car--if they are counting wheel revolutions then your car should have shown LESS. And, on the same cruise settings your car should have been overtaking her car.

In the patent for the AWD torque control it is interesting that they don't use the term "measure" for vehicle speed, but rather it is always called 'calculated' speed. Link to patent here: Dual Motor (and Triple) Torque Control for Maximum Efficiency


diam config width prof diam. ft/revrevs/mile delta %
19 winter 245 45 27.68 7.25 728.6 0.00
21 winter 245 35 27.75 7.27 726.7 -0.26
21 wk057 D f 245 35 27.75 7.27 726.7 -0.26
21 wk057 D r 265 35 28.30 7.41 712.6 -2.20

Don't know why it loses the spacing...

This forum does support

 

[xy46]

To wk057 - thanks for taking the time to do this. It is really appreciated!

 

[wk057]

So, got tied up with other things this weekend. I do think I found my issue with my dash cam footage sync... turns out that the cams change frame rates in different modes, even though the video length is the same. So, transcoding those with lower framerates up to a higher frame rate (duplicating frames) so that they fit in my project...

Hopefully have at least leg 1 done today...