Panasonic v LG Batteries

[jlz78]

Plenty of evidence from Bjorn Nyland that the Panasonic 82kWh battery isn’t as good a performer as the LG at lower SOC. Evidence of M3P battery throttling back performance at lower charge states, particularly when cold. The M3LR LG battery puts out more power than the performance at lower SOC, which makes the LR with LG a quicker car than the Perofmance at lower SOC.

Not sure the LG is the turkey some people think it is, particularly when charging in cold weather.

 

[Llama.]

I have a 2021 Made in China Model 3. It has the 75kWh LG battery.

Max displayed range is 344 miles after 5000 miles.

I’ve had no trouble with supercharging speeds, and regularly get about 200kw charging at V3 charging stalls after battery preconditioning.

No complaints here. It’s a great car.

 

[Oxstock]

Guys, it’s been a while and I’m frankly still shocked that the traction in the UK on this.

I think the original user and post hit the nail on the head but several months on and from what I hear the charging speeds are still shocking (albeit there’s a few people in this thread stating relatively good charging speeds which is isn’t the trend from what I see) and I’m bumping this thread as we’re not talking about it enough.

Australias now updated their range on their website within the last few days confirming the Panasonic batt but we know that bigger battery’s have been hitting Australia for the past month (perhaps even longer).

So whilst we all sit here assuming we have LG battery’s, has anyone actually hooked up a scan my Tesla / OBD reader to actually work out what battery they have? Don’t take teslas word for it, they could change it in January on their website, which might suggest cars going out in November and December is a different battery. Without someone actually looking we will never know? Most people will check their range and just make an assumption to what batt they have.

That’s now how it works, Tesla are well known for shipping out cars with different battery’s and doing a soft lock on them with the older batt size.

Would also be good to get update from people on this thread on charging speeds for the LG battery.

Like other users said, I really think theirs pros and cons to both but given teslas stance on shifting to Panasonic, from where I’m sitting they probably feel the LG isn’t as good as the Panasonic so why are we just accepting that here in the UK.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think LG batt is a complete lemon, charging speeds aren’t drastically different, but this thread is the first time I’ve heard people getting 200kw charging on the LG. If that’s the case, perhaps they aren’t quite as bad especially given the better performance at a lower SOC. From what I gather, the Performance model with Panasonic in cold conditions is absolutely shocking, even after updates - I'd imagine that isnt much different to the LR with the Panasonic.

Update on your charging speeds please, and someone with a Q4 LR, £20 for an OBD reader and check you batteries! At this rate I’d happily pay someone to buy an OBD reader to check.

 

[Matt125]

September 2021 Model 3 LR here. The fastest supercharger speed I've had so far is 186kw at 12% SOC.

Might have got 200kw if I ran it down to 5% SOC.

It didn't stay at 186kw for long though and my perception was that it went below 100kw much earlier than my 2019 Model 3 SR+ did. I may be wrong though. I didn't properly test it by any means!

 

[Oxstock]

September 2021 Model 3 LR here. The fastest supercharger speed I've had so far is 186kw at 12% SOC.

Might have got 200kw if I ran it down to 5% SOC.

It didn't stay at 186kw for long though and my perception was that it went below 100kw much earlier than my 2019 Model 3 SR+ did. I may be wrong though. I didn't properly test it by any means!

Have you considered doing some digging on what battery you actually have?

**Updated - more importantly, how happy are you with the car compared to the SR+?

 

[Matt125]

Have you considered doing some digging on what battery you actually have?

**Updated - more importantly, how happy are you with the car compared to the SR+?

I intend to get OBD, ScanMyTesla etc as soon as I pick up an Android phone to use it with. I have been spending my spare cash on other things since making the huge purchase of the Tesla!

I don't know what battery I have for sure, but I assume it's the old LG battery based on info provided by people like @eivissa in other threads. Range at max SOC is around 333 miles based on the driving I do.

I love the car though. Build quality is much better - no panel gaps, no issue with the tail lights (fogging or alignment), also the improvements they've made to soundproofing and the overall ride quality (the car feels so much tighter and stable on the road) make the 2021 Model 3 a vast improvement over the 2019. I like the updated center console but it isn't that big a change really. I think it's the improvements they've made elsewhere that really make the difference.

I'm also enjoying having the bigger battery and the octovalve heat pump which really is making the car more efficient. I can tear the car around country lanes and do 70 mph on motorways and still get 250 wh/mi average. I expect that will come down once I start driving the car in a more relaxed fashion, and build up some summer miles next year.

The all-wheel drive makes it much more stable on roundabouts and tricky manoeuvres, and the full sound system makes the old one sound tinny and flat in comparison. Finally the tweeters work, and the car actually shakes with bass! There's no way I could go back to a SR+ after this.

I'm just as interested as everyone else is in the battery, though. I was seriously considering waiting until it was confirmed that the UK was getting the new bigger capacity LG battery, until real life got in the way, and I just had to have a car. I haven't supercharged this one enough to really judge supercharging performance but I have the feeling that it may not be capable of maintaining the high supercharge speeds as long as the old batteries.

 

[GRiLLA]

Guys, it’s been a while and I’m frankly still shocked that the traction in the UK on this.

I think the original user and post hit the nail on the head but several months on and from what I hear the charging speeds are still shocking (albeit there’s a few people in this thread stating relatively good charging speeds which is isn’t the trend from what I see) and I’m bumping this thread as we’re not talking about it enough.

Australias now updated their range on their website within the last few days confirming the Panasonic batt but we know that bigger battery’s have been hitting Australia for the past month (perhaps even longer).

So whilst we all sit here assuming we have LG battery’s, has anyone actually hooked up a scan my Tesla / OBD reader to actually work out what battery they have? Don’t take teslas word for it, they could change it in January on their website, which might suggest cars going out in November and December is a different battery. Without someone actually looking we will never know? Most people will check their range and just make an assumption to what batt they have.

That’s now how it works, Tesla are well known for shipping out cars with different battery’s and doing a soft lock on them with the older batt size.

Would also be good to get update from people on this thread on charging speeds for the LG battery.

Like other users said, I really think theirs pros and cons to both but given teslas stance on shifting to Panasonic, from where I’m sitting they probably feel the LG isn’t as good as the Panasonic so why are we just accepting that here in the UK.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think LG batt is a complete lemon, charging speeds aren’t drastically different, but this thread is the first time I’ve heard people getting 200kw charging on the LG. If that’s the case, perhaps they aren’t quite as bad especially given the better performance at a lower SOC.

Update on your charging speeds please, and someone with a Q4 LR, £20 for an OBD reader and check you batteries! At this rate I’d happily pay someone to buy an OBD reader to check.

Why the great concern as what can you do about it? You'll own a car for a few year then pass it on to someone else, no one really gets in to the nitty-gritty of sub-component types when valuing a car within it's warrenty.

I have a 2019 with the Panasonic battery, I've never seen more than 180KW charging as I don't arrive at chargers with single digit percentages. In the real work you will SuperCharger from about 20-80%, v3 makes not more than a 5 minute difference compared to a V2. The advantage of them is not having to share power, not their headline 250KW rate.

from where I’m sitting they probably feel the LG isn’t as good as the Panasonic so why are we just accepting that here in the UK.

Tesla are a business, lifetime cost is almost certainly the overriding factor. Are you sure that's going to be in your favour?

The only point that's definitively true is whatever you get now won't be as good as what's available later, this will always be the case, technology advances.

 

[Bouba]

I have just bought a new Model 3 LR in France, and it’s made in China with the LG battery and lower range. So this is not a UK verses the rest of the world. In fact I think (until the German plant comes on line) that China will be the source of most of Europe’s Model 3. Of course this doesn’t mean that the sales staff won’t lie through their teeth about it. I was told it was the same battery until I pressed them further and then they said it’s the new LFP battery and can be charged to 100%. Of course that was all lies, the LFP is for the SR++ only.
But it was 3000 euros cheaper

 

[MrT3]

Australias now updated their range on their website within the last few days confirming the Panasonic batt but we know that bigger battery’s have been hitting Australia for the past month (perhaps even longer).

Why do you keep talking about a Panasonic battery? The extra range from MiC LRs is coming from the E5LD variant with the M50 LG battery pack.

 

[PastyVolt]

Plenty of evidence from Bjorn Nyland that the Panasonic 82kWh battery isn’t as good a performer as the LG at lower SOC. Evidence of M3P battery throttling back performance at lower charge states, particularly when cold. The M3LR LG battery puts out more power than the performance at lower SOC, which makes the LR with LG a quicker car than the Perofmance at lower SOC.

Not sure the LG is the turkey some people think it is, particularly when charging in cold weather.

This video was released in January 2021 and there's been various software updates since. If you read the comments on Bjorn's video, he says himself that this was "fixed" five months ago.

 

[thewanted]

Why do you keep talking about a Panasonic battery? The extra range from MiC LRs is coming from the E5LD variant with the M50 LG battery pack.

Because now that he has his delivery date, he needs something else to worry about for the next month

 

[Durzel]

Isn't all of this stuff a case of getting angry or agitated about something you have absolutely no control over?

Tesla aren't going to change the battery chemistry or manufacturer based on a vanishingly small minority of people having nebulous concerns about supercharging speeds or anything else. Tesla don't guarantee minimum rapid charging speeds, or power at a given SoC, or anything else. They stand behind a nominal range, and that's it, and even that they will say is dependant on a variety of factors.

Obsessing over whether one's battery comes from Panasonic, LG or A.N.Other maker, whether it's a specific designation, or whatever, seems self-defeatist to me. You can't do anything about it even if you do have a problem (real or imagined) with it. You can elect not to buy the car, but someone else will. Demand is likely to exceed supply for the forseeable future, so it's not as if Tesla is even motivated to try and appease this minority of people obsessing over battery chemistry.

Buy or don't buy, everything else is out of your control.

 

[Bouba]

I thought about canceling my order because of the blatant misrepresentation from the sales staff in France. In fact I thought that I would go to pick the car up and talk to the technicians (not the sales staff) at the pick up center (which was separate from the sales office). But I was shocked at the scale of the operation, they were putting a new car with a new owner every couple of minutes. I realized that my silent protest against the system would not even register, also the technicians swore it was an LFP battery !!
So, do I want to wait another year? Would the situation have changed ? Wait for the German factory, but which models will they produce ? Will they have teething problems like the Fremont plant? What batteries will they use? And will the technology in America change once more? And most importantly do I want to keep shoveling money down the throat of my old car?
So, I accepted delivery of my new Model 3 LR with the old batteries (which was confirmed by email). On the negative side I have less range and potentially reduced second hand value. On the positive side it was less money, I had the car on my driveway. And it’s just a great car to drive.

 

[Oxstock]

Why the great concern as what can you do about it? You'll own a car for a few year then pass it on to someone else, no one really gets in to the nitty-gritty of sub-component types when valuing a car within it's warrenty.

I have a 2019 with the Panasonic battery, I've never seen more than 180KW charging as I don't arrive at chargers with single digit percentages. In the real work you will SuperCharger from about 20-80%, v3 makes not more than a 5 minute difference compared to a V2. The advantage of them is not having to share power, not their headline 250KW rate.


Tesla are a business, lifetime cost is almost certainly the overriding factor. Are you sure that's going to be in your favour?

The only point that's definitively true is whatever you get now won't be as good as what's available later, this will always be the case, technology advances.

Thanks for this, I wasnt aware that the old Panasonic 2019 didnt produce 200+ KW at charging, assumed they did often. Thanks for the post, makes sense.

Why do you keep talking about a Panasonic battery? The extra range from MiC LRs is coming from the E5LD variant with the M50 LG battery pack.

Why do you keep following me on every post? The Extra range in Europe is not coming from the LG Battery pack, let me tell you that for certain. They've had the Panasonic longer than most.

This video was released in January 2021 and there's been various software updates since. If you read the comments on Bjorn's video, he says himself that this was "fixed" five months ago.

Not fixed at all. a small fix came out for the performance models in Europe - only change was the *sugar* performance at 50% changed to 40%. Sub 40% SOC on all M3P is worse than the LR in cold weather. This is very widely accepted.

Isn't all of this stuff a case of getting angry or agitated about something you have absolutely no control over?

Tesla aren't going to change the battery chemistry or manufacturer based on a vanishingly small minority of people having nebulous concerns about supercharging speeds or anything else. Tesla don't guarantee minimum rapid charging speeds, or power at a given SoC, or anything else. They stand behind a nominal range, and that's it, and even that they will say is dependant on a variety of factors.

Obsessing over whether one's battery comes from Panasonic, LG or A.N.Other maker, whether it's a specific designation, or whatever, seems self-defeatist to me. You can't do anything about it even if you do have a problem (real or imagined) with it. You can elect not to buy the car, but someone else will. Demand is likely to exceed supply for the forseeable future, so it's not as if Tesla is even motivated to try and appease this minority of people obsessing over battery chemistry.

Buy or don't buy, everything else is out of your control.

Yes you're probably bang on the money there.

Because now that he has his delivery date, he needs something else to worry about for the next month

110% Accurate.

 

[Durzel]

I would not get too hung up about second hand value. I tend to think that forums like this amplify concerns far beyond anything sensible or rational.

I don't imagine, when you come to sell your car, that the battery make or anything else of that nature will even come up. It'll be a case of what condition is the car in, what's the projected range at 100%, and that's about it.

You might even find that trading it in would yield comparably high valuations, when it comes to it, and they're definitely not going to care about the minutiae of Panasonic vs LG, battery designations, etc... "what ranges does it do mate?" will be about the size of it.

If it helps, remember that the car you bought is and has been sold to tens of thousands of other people. It's not as if you've bought some unicorn lemon or something. It is the manufacturer-backed specification of the time. Tesla didn't make a "mistake" putting that battery (any battery) in the car.

 

[Oxstock]

I would not get too hung up about second hand value. I tend to think that forums like this amplify concerns far beyond anything sensible.

I don't imagine, when you come to sell your car, that the battery make or anything else of that nature will even come up. It'll be a case of what condition is the car in, what's the projected range at 100%, and that's about it.

You might even find that trading it in would yield comparably high valuations, when it comes to it, and they're definitely not going to care about the minutiae of Panasonic vs LG, battery designations, etc... "what ranges does it do mate?" will be about the size of it.

If it helps, remember that the car you bought is also being sold to thousands of other people. It's not as if you've bought some unicorn lemon or something. It is the manufacturer-backed specification of the time.

I dont think I could sum it up better myself. Think this Forum is like a virus in my brain for people that obsess over their purchases. Some comments (like ones MrT3 often makes) drill down far into your brain. Reality is, some 50 year old looking to move from his Jag to a Tesla aint going to have a scooby do of a few Kw difference to his car purchase he makes from me in 2025.

Well said. Printing this comment and framing it, because I think this is the exact sort of comment that makes you step back and look at the wider picture.

 

[Oxstock]

Well there you have it, loud and clear. This thread is getting no traction because people dont give a sh*t.

Ignorance is bliss as so many people keep saying.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I have a 2019 with the Panasonic battery, I've never seen more than 180KW charging as I don't arrive at chargers with single digit percentages. In the real work you will SuperCharger from about 20-80%, v3 makes not more than a 5 minute difference compared to a V2. The advantage of them is not having to share power, not their headline 250KW rate.

I find that odd, I have a 2020 LR with the Panasonic battery (US built) and have seen 250kw on a V3 charger regularily (albeit for relatively short periods of time, not that it needs to be that long, just 5 mins at that rate is 20kwh) and my experience is a V3 charger is considerably faster than a V2 charger.

I'm never sure which would be the bigger worry - that 2 cars which should be near identical (all the US built LR cars before 2021 had the same BT37 battery code) but the variability means owners can see a 70kw difference in peak charging speed, or the fact that Tesla are more than a little optomistic at times with the specs or just tell people rubbish like LFP batteries on LR cars.

 

[MrT3]

Why do you keep following me on every post? The Extra range in Europe is not coming from the LG Battery pack, let me tell you that for certain. They've had the Panasonic longer than most.

Europe has not at a MiC LR with 614 km range before this quarter. They were all MiA in Q1 and Q2 this year with Panasonic batteries. Q3 cars switched to MiC but with lower range (and a discount on the price of the vehicle). The MiC Q4 cars now coming over with extra range have LG batteries.

MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

Simply ENVY. I'm at 76 kWh NFP. It seems that even if you leave your normal way to charge (AC to 55-58%) to a more stressful way (DC SuC) , you always have the better NFP ever. I still continue to experience drops when i let the car (due to force majeure ) under 20% SOC. Then it recovers some...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Oxstock]

Europe has not at a MiC LR with 614 km range before this quarter. They were all MiA in Q1 and Q2 this year with Panasonic batteries. Q3 cars switched to MiC but with lower range (and a discount on the price of the vehicle). The MiC Q4 cars now coming over with extra range have LG batteries.

MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

Simply ENVY. I'm at 76 kWh NFP. It seems that even if you leave your normal way to charge (AC to 55-58%) to a more stressful way (DC SuC) , you always have the better NFP ever. I still continue to experience drops when i let the car (due to force majeure ) under 20% SOC. Then it recovers some...

teslamotorsclub.com

Well I dont really know whats going on, seems like about 1,000 different batteries knocking about.

So after all the changing to Panasonic, they're now jumping ship again and going back to LG 5L (What ever the **** that one is). I mean, what is that? Do LR in the UK have this LG 5L?