Performance of P85D with Ludicrous upgrade review

[sorka]

It came straight off the CAN bus data logging comparison of a P85DL and P90DL with nearly identical states of charge. The 90 drooped slightly less with both providing almost identical 1500ish amps. Plots are in the thread.

The CAN bus messages seemed not to be affected by anode composition :0

Got it. I didn't know that or didn't remember. Where are the plots?

The best I hit was about a month ago at 90% with max battery ready. I'd never used max batter to ready before. I charged to 92% and by the time I was able to use full power I was down to 90%. The 456KW is the same as Pete90's original high reading way back when he first got his P90DL. Has anyone seen higher on the 90?

 

[NSX1992]

Well I went to the 1/4 mile drags in Fontana 10 days after my right hip replacement to measure my P85DL Ludicrous improvement. First I had to drive 90 miles to the Rancho Cucamanga Supercharger for a 99% fill then driving to the track 5 miles to arrive at 95%. Unfortunately the line was so long that after a 2 hour wait I was down to 91% for my first run due to heating the battery to maximum for so long. My first opponent was a new Z06. I had my best reaction time of .026 sec compared to his good .168 and did 11.326 @ only 114.48 to his 12.676 @ 121.25. The Corvette just can't get the HP to the ground without slicks. My 60' was 1.610, 1/8 7.153 @ 94.24 well below my best.

I was happy to set a new my 1/4 ET decrease by .220 sec but unhappy that I could not improve by .300 to beat the best times for P90DLs. Maybe a higher charge would have helped. The other 4 races were no contest against Mustangs and an Audi. Strangely my third run 11.461 had the highest mph of 116.92. Just for fun I tried Launch Mode on my last run with the worst results.

I just started using a cane yesterday so I am still wobbly but I could not wait till September. I will be 76 years old in 4 days.

 

[sorka]

Well I went to the 1/4 mile drags in Fontana 10 days after my right hip replacement to measure my P85DL Ludicrous improvement. First I had to drive 90 miles to the Rancho Cucamanga Supercharger for a 99% fill then driving to the track 5 miles to arrive at 95%. Unfortunately the line was so long that after a 2 hour wait I was down to 91% for my first run due to heating the battery to maximum for so long. My first opponent was a new Z06. I had my best reaction time of .026 sec compared to his good .168 and did 11.326 @ only 114.48 to his 12.676 @ 121.25. The Corvette just can't get the HP to the ground without slicks. My 60' was 1.610, 1/8 7.153 @ 94.24 well below my best.

I was happy to set a new my 1/4 ET decrease by .220 sec but unhappy that I could not improve by .300 to beat the best times for P90DLs. Maybe a higher charge would have helped. The other 4 races were no contest against Mustangs and an Audi. Strangely my third run 11.461 had the highest mph of 116.92. Just for fun I tried Launch Mode on my last run with the worst results.

I just started using a cane yesterday so I am still wobbly but I could not wait till September. I will be 76 years old in 4 days.

A higher charge than 90% wouldn't have helped. 90% is just as good as 100%.

 

[P85DEE]

Well I went to the 1/4 mile drags in Fontana 10 days after my right hip replacement to measure my P85DL Ludicrous improvement. First I had to drive 90 miles to the Rancho Cucamanga Supercharger for a 99% fill then driving to the track 5 miles to arrive at 95%. Unfortunately the line was so long that after a 2 hour wait I was down to 91% for my first run due to heating the battery to maximum for so long. My first opponent was a new Z06. I had my best reaction time of .026 sec compared to his good .168 and did 11.326 @ only 114.48 to his 12.676 @ 121.25. The Corvette just can't get the HP to the ground without slicks. My 60' was 1.610, 1/8 7.153 @ 94.24 well below my best.

I was happy to set a new my 1/4 ET decrease by .220 sec but unhappy that I could not improve by .300 to beat the best times for P90DLs. Maybe a higher charge would have helped. The other 4 races were no contest against Mustangs and an Audi. Strangely my third run 11.461 had the highest mph of 116.92. Just for fun I tried Launch Mode on my last run with the worst results.

I just started using a cane yesterday so I am still wobbly but I could not wait till September. I will be 76 years old in 4 days.

Thanks for your efforts, but be careful not to overdo things this early after your surgery.

While you mention that you started that 11.3 pass at 91%, and Sorka points out that a higher charge than 90% would not have helped you, I wonder here that if you started that pass at 91%, what was it when you finished it.

I recall your 1/8 mile record results from your last post as 7.082 @ 96.52 and 60' @ 1.580. You mentioned that this had been done on a 92% state of charge.

Strange, the 1/4 mile trap speed difference in results obtained at 92% vs these latest results done at 91%.

Admittedly I'm grasping at straws here, but is it possible that starting at a 91% state of charge, that you were at a lower than 90% state of charge sometime between starting the pass and finishing it?

Was there a headwind or a crosswind perhaps?

The 60ft times aren't that different, .03 secs, so the time was probably not lost there. The 1/8 ET is changed .071 secs. But the 1/8 mile trap speed is 2.28mph slower than in your record run. That's significant and tells me that the car was perhaps down on power.

At any rate, 11.326 is certainly impressive. Congrats on the new time and here's hoping for continued recovery and a happy birthday.

 

[NSX1992]

My best time in the 1/8 was 7.082 @ 96.52 at 92% at a different track. At 89% 7.220 @ 95.88 and at 87% 7.183 @ 95.57
My previous times in the 1/4 were 11.546 @113.70 at 94%. At 90% 11.661 @ 113.08 and at 87% 11.727 @ 112.71.
Today at 91% 11.326 @ 114.48. At 88% 11.346 @ 114.02.At 83% 11.461 @ 116.92. At 80% 11.508 @ 116.52
So my experience is the higher the charge the better. Below 90% the change is more dramatic. I lose about 2% after each run plus another 1% waiting for next run.

 

[P85DEE]

Oh, ok.

I didn't realize that we were talking about results obtained at different tracks. That can certainly make a difference.

 

[lolachampcar]

Chassis CAN Logging To ASCII Text Plus Graphing

It is a very long thread...... Most plots are in the middle to 2/3rds the way through.

 

[P85DEE]

My best time in the 1/8 was 7.082 @ 96.52 at 92% at a different track. At 89% 7.220 @ 95.88 and at 87% 7.183 @ 95.57
My previous times in the 1/4 were 11.546 @113.70 at 94%. At 90% 11.661 @ 113.08 and at 87% 11.727 @ 112.71.
Today at 91% 11.326 @ 114.48. At 88% 11.346 @ 114.02.At 83% 11.461 @ 116.92. At 80% 11.508 @ 116.52
So my experience is the higher the charge the better. Below 90% the change is more dramatic. I lose about 2% after each run plus another 1% waiting for next run.

Looking at your results a little closer, it does seem that you do tend to get better results the higher your state of charge.

However looking closer, I see one comparison of results in the 90% ranges.

The one in the 90% vs 94% range when the car was Insane.

That showed a little over a 0.1 second advantage (0.115 seconds to be exact) at 94% vs 90%.

So yeah, I see your point that it would have been interesting to see if a higher state of charge than your 91%, might have helped and given you that extra tenth to get to 3 tenths improvement like you were looking for, or gotten you closer to it. I certainly don't see how it would have hurt.

One way to look at it though, is that if your best time in Insane came at a 94% state of charge, then you really don't yet have as close of a comparison as you can reasonably get until you run in Ludicrous at the same track and at the same indicated 94% state of charge.

That you've now managed to improve your quarter mile ET by over 2 tenths and at a slightly lower state of charge, 91% vs 94%, can't be seen as anything other than progress and optimism that you should only get better.

 

[lolachampcar]

wonder what I did to "Texas"???

 

[NSX1992]

@P85DEE
My body feels a lot better today after a full nights rest. My 1/4 mile retest will have to wait till September due to track scheduling and our trip to Europe for a month. I may try the 1/8 mile again by taking many more hours of charging at ChargePoint to get a higher charge than 92% to test effects of a higher charge theory. Thanks for your analysis.

 

[NSX1992]

I went back to Irwindale May 26th to test the effects of a higher charge. Charged to 100% at a nearby ChargePoint and arrived early to make my first pass at 98%. The result was way off my record 7.082 @ 96.52 at 92% as I did 7.385 @ 95.24. My 2nd run was with slip off and was even worse 7.436 @ 94.76 at 96%. Slip start was used for the remaining runs, 7.210 @ 95.23 at 94%, 7.231 @95.03 at 91%. My best run was at 87% 7.104 @ 94.66 and a new low of 1.570 for 60'. This run had the best start as I avoided the water that they spray for the burnouts. My last run was 7.228 @ 94.35 at 82%.

The conclusion is obvious that above 92% I was slower and that the best times are between 87% and 92% charge.

 

[P85DEE]

I went back to Irwindale May 26th to test the effects of a higher charge. Charged to 100% at a nearby ChargePoint and arrived early to make my first pass at 98%. The result was way off my record 7.082 @ 96.52 at 92% as I did 7.385 @ 95.24. My 2nd run was with slip off and was even worse 7.436 @ 94.76 at 96%. Slip start was used for the remaining runs, 7.210 @ 95.23 at 94%, 7.231 @95.03 at 91%. My best run was at 87% 7.104 @ 94.66 and a new low of 1.570 for 60'. This run had the best start as I avoided the water that they spray for the burnouts. My last run was 7.228 @ 94.35 at 82%.

The conclusion is obvious that above 92% I was slower and that the best times are between 87% and 92% charge.

Thanks for the info NSX1992

Great data.

You were only .022 seconds slower than your record and at 1.570 for the 60ft, you're starting to make getting a sub 1.6 60ft time look easy.

What was it 1.580 or thereabouts before?

You're the king of the 60ft in these cars.

Also take a look at your splits here

2014 Tesla Model S P85DL 1/4 Mile Drag Racing

On that 11.326, you were at 7.153 @94.20 mph in the 1/8.

Now for the 1/8 you're at 7.104 @94.6 mph and on a better 60ft time. 1.570 vs 1.610 when you ran the 11.326.

Had you run a full quarter, you had a very good chance on that pass to better your previous 11.326.

 

[bhzmark]

Updating the list to reflect interesting new info. Would like to see it replicated before moving to definitely.

Definitely helpful:
- charge above 87%
- Max power battery heat
- stomp pedal (with a wind up) instead of launch mode
- shallow stage (give more running room before tripping the start clock)

Probably helpful:
- charge between 87% and 92%. Above 92% reported slower
- creep mode off
- slip mode on (if tire and track conditions allow? can you spin too much in some cases?)
- take out the Chademo adopter and all other junk in the trunk/frunk
- fewer heavy options (no pano, UHFS, power hatch, SAS, dual charger, 3rd row, etc.)
- lighter wheels and tires (19 instead of 21)

Who knows? (no data to back up some of these speculations)
- adjust SAS (make it lower?)
- turn off all other elec load in car esp Ac/heater (not even DRLs etc.? 12v probably doesn't matter? )
- lower (raise?) tire pressure
- fold side mirrors

 

[bhzmark]

Really exercised ludi update recently. An Mb e63 amg who was not used to losing ( these run 3.4 and 11.7 to 60 and 1/4 respectively) lost handily. Feels like doing EV ambassadorial work. I'll bet his next car is a p90dl.

At first I wasnt too impressed with the ludi.. I could tell it was quicker at the 30+ speeds but didn't blow me away. But using it more, the passing power at speed is pretty phenomenal.

 

[lolachampcar]

The change seemed to fill in a gap in the car's performance. It is nice to have on a daily basis and I find I use the extra amps above 30 mph way more than I've historically used the very high power launches (except for demos ).

 

[NDR]

We have 2 p85d's, one is a December 2014 build and one is a May 2015 build. Both have been upgraded to ludicrous by the west palm beach service center. The December p85dl makes ~430kw and the May p85dl makes ~455kw. All number taken from powertools over many runs at all soc's over the past month. The May 2015 p85dl is noticeably faster at most soc.
Does this seem normal to you guys? What peak kW are you guys making?

 

[MuppetOwl]

Can you take a look on the battery part number and see if that is the same?

Late delivered P85D and 85D have 85 battery with Ludicrous hw. Maybe they are better than the upgraded ones.

 

[sorka]

We have 2 p85d's, one is a December 2014 build and one is a May 2015 build. Both have been upgraded to ludicrous by the west palm beach service center. The December p85dl makes ~430kw and the May p85dl makes ~455kw. All number taken from powertools over many runs at all soc's over the past month. The May 2015 p85dl is noticeably faster at most soc.
Does this seem normal to you guys? What peak kW are you guys making?

Can you get a CANBUS logger and log the current and voltage drop? Current should be 1500 amps in both. If not, then there's an issue with the software not maxing out the draw. If both are 1500 amps, then the voltage drop on the early model will be lower which would simply indicate battery degradation.

 

[NSX1992]

I could not wait until September for another 1/4 try so I drove to Bakersfield CA 150 miles away at Auto Club Famoso Raceway. Since the nearest Supercharger was 50 miles from the strip I hauled my Tesla P85DL in my 24' enclosed trailer. That was a costly decision as I could not tie it down and it moved forward 3 feet hitting my workbench but not damaging the chrome mesh grill. However it also moved sideways and the strap tightener that holds my gas cans on top of the wheel wells rubbed a deep gauge and scratches in my rear bumper. The racing started at 8 pm and lasted till 2 am. The daytime temperature reached 107 degrees.

My first run was a new record for me as well as beating all the P90DL listed in Drag Times except the mysterious 11.152.
1/4 et 11.224 @ 119.00, 60' 1.602, 1/8 7.099 @ 98.16, 94% charge, 93 degrees. My 3rd run was 11.275 @ 119.64 at 89%. This is the highest speed reported by anyone except for the magazines. My last 7th run was 11.558 @ 117.67 at 75% at 2 am.

I could not believe that there were so many racers there about half ran No Time which meant only they got their time slips and the audience was left in the dark as the score boards only showed who won. Apparently they bet money on some races and street racers want their times to remain secret. There were a lot of fast street racers. Everyone was amazed how quick the Tesla was and it was fun using Summons to move it forward in the staging lanes.

We were told that we could camp there overnight but at 2:30 we were rudely interrupted and told we had to camp out of the facility fence. So we got 3 hours of sleep. During that period I got the bright that my friend could drive the Tesla home and his girl friend would have better air conditioning while I would have 4,900 ponds less to tow over the Grapevine and avoid any further damage to my car. We had breakfast at the Tejon Ranch Supercharger while the Tesla got back to 90%.

 

[sorka]

My first run was a new record for me as well as beating all the P90DL listed in Drag Times except the mysterious 11.152.
1/4 et 11.224 @ 119.00, 60' 1.602, 1/8 7.099 @ 98.16, 94% charge, 93 degrees. My 3rd run was 11.275 @ 119.64 at 89%. This is the highest speed reported by anyone except for the magazines. My last 7th run was 11.558 @ 117.67 at 75% at 2 am.

I guess I'm going to have to eat my words that the P90DL can't come anywhere near close to 121 MPH. If that was a vbox instead of the speed needed to get through the last 66 feet, that would be in the mid 120 MPH range.

I think this also puts to rest there being any sort of performance advantage of the P90DL over the P85DL given this result and that we already know the maximum KW output is the same.