Still a hero, but your lack of respect for your colleagues is dropping you a notch! You may not teach english, but please tell me you want the kids to learn it properly. You should care!
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Performance Upgrade Price Change!
- Thread starter spesler
- Start date
I agree with Perry. Brake pads, rotors and calipers are piece of cake to change. The current calipers already have the clamping capacity to lock the wheels. The bigger rotors on PUP are just to increase heat dissipation. There is many performance cars that comes with rotors around the 320mm size on the performance model 3 such and EVOs and STis. The model 3 has regen that helps with braking and keep the brakes cool. Nice pads and good fluid will do wonders for this car.
The P3D is getting track mode no matter what people say. Elon Musk already stated that fact twice.
Wooloomooloo
Member
Pretty ironic since "mute point" should be "moot point."
If you're going to be a pedant, get it right.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You might have meant that, but that's literally not what you said.
No, I explained that brakes are irrelevant to stopping distance. .
You seemed to think otherwise since you mentioned stopping distance at the same time you claimed the brakes weren't any smaller and that that lack of stopping distance distance was "proof" of that- which it factually is not.
I also corrected your inaccurate claim the brakes on the P3D+ aren't are larger than those on the other Model 3s.
If you wanna keep dancing around being wrong twice by insisting you meant things other than you said that's your call I guess.
And obviously the larger rotors on the P3D+ have less of this plague.
So you've now shown us one of the possible reasons Track mode would be specific to the cars with upgraded factory brakes.
Thus contradicting your own original argument.
I did. But not with track mode (which specifically takes steps to help resist fade with regen settings)
Plus- again, Tesla isn't going to design anything in support or consideration you MIGHT put after-market parts on the car.
They design for what they sell from the factory.
Which, on the P3D+, is larger brakes.
no, we did not.
We agreed (after I had to explain this to you) that they don't change normal stopping distance.
Which doesn't mean they "do nothing" in track use at all.
Sure. Though again they're going by what comes from the factory.
They're actually much larger compared to the non + rotors than the MPP ones you seem to be in love with are over the + rotors.
But then you originally claimed they were all the same size, so....
We don't actually know that.
We know the shocks and springs are different- but nobody has actually determined how exactly.
I suppose it's possible they just snipped .39 inches of coil off the springs or something... but it seems pretty weird they'd bother with the manufacturing and supply chain costs of different parts JUST to do that.
I mean- other than the multiple things better about it we just went through... larger brakes, better tires, and a lowered suspension.
none of these (except the tires) will matter in street use of course- but the brakes and suspension should make a measurable difference on a track. How big is a YMMV thing though.
Probably. But again expecting Tesla to design their advanced vehicle stability system around after-market parts someone MIGHT add is an insane expectation.
Make you a deal- I'll change your air filter twice for every 1 time you wheels and brakes on my car. Should be a no brainer if your claim is true, right? (hint: it's not true)
The marketing claim about track mode BTW makes absolutely zero sense
why?
They don't SELL P3D- any more.
So why would they do something to discourage purchase of a car not actually for sale?
It was pathetic how people would go after incorrectly spelled words or find some grammar rule when they failed to contest the main points. Sometimes people are on their phones so accuracy suffers as a result.
Don't be that person.
RB 2pc Rotor (320x26mm) Stock Repl for Tesla Model 3 (Non-Perf. Brake) Front (Brake Pads Are Included)
Yummy. Those rotors are light.
Yummy. Those rotors are light.
Wooloomooloo
Member
Especially as it's "moot point" and not "mute point".
There's an old saying about not criticizing people who mispronounce words, because they probably learned it through reading. But when someone simultaneously misuses and misspells a word while criticizing someone else's prose, that really is the bleeding edge of irony.
The custom car you ordered, would have needed the performance package installed during construction.
You would be turning down your custom car and waiting for another car to be built - that's not a one day "miss" even if it appears that way.
It's more of a problem if you laid out $5,000 and then suddenly had the identical car be $5,000 less 24 hours later.
You did lose some value, I agree but its not as outsized as some people think it is.
You didn't qualify for free supercharging based on your order date. You now have it for free. So you got something above and beyond what you agreed to pay for.
I think if Tesla were to offer FUSC right now, people would pay $2,000-$3,000 for it.
Not a bad bonus for something you didn't expect. Even if you might not use supercharging that much, Tesla has limits on what it can do to accommodate people and run their business as they see necessary.
FWIW, my post hated post ever on TMC was when I posted on the investment forum discussing how Tesla was being a dick with how they handled early adopters, and the timing/magnitude of their changes.
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This 10,000X.
If you wanted to be assured of ALL THE BELLS AND WHISTLES that a 2018 Performance Model 3 would qualify for, you paid for the PUP.
FULL STOP
Anything else is a gamble.
Those in CA applying for Red HOV stickers now thinking it will still be red in 2019 is gambling.
Sometimes you win.. sometimes you lose.
You can't pat yourself on the back saying you saved $5,000 because Tesla didn't offer "enough" for that money.
So when Tesla gets around to offering "enough" for that $5,000 - you get pissed and want the same thing that people paid $5,000 for.
Which way do you want it?
You never know what Tesla can do or can't do with a vehicle that can be updated through software.
Perry
Active Member
No harder than replacing break pads. In fact Rich does both rotors and pads in this video.
Perry
Active Member
I wasn't talking about P3D- alone. Read what I wrote again at the end. I was talking about all model 3s with two motors which I believe track mode is technically compatible with after I read how it works. That includes AWD, P3D- and P3D+. But even so, there was a marketing strategy before P3D- was discontinued, wasn't there? And that strategy was to artificially not give Track Mode to P3D- correct? That was revised with the price drop with one tweet for the P3D-, indicating even more that it was trivial to add to P3D- because there is no technical reason for withholding other than an executive decision.
I don't believe Track Mode is that brittle of a system that it can't take into account slight hardware differences since the road conditions themselves can produce more delta than that. They use sensors and adjust accordingly. The only technical restriction I believe is that you need two motors because of they way the system balances the drift. Everything else about who gets it is purely an executive decisions.
Tesla doesn't build cars custom to order. They build them in bulk and match owners with cars.
Unless I missed something, I don't "now have" supercharging for free. I don't have supercharging at all, as far as I know. I just charge at home overnight each night.
I agree that I would be even more angry if I had paid the 5K for the PUP. But still upset as are many others that have the same car as I do.
I have been on a few forums, mostly muscle car forums, and I try to keep things civil and not get up into other members business. So hopefully back to focusing on the car issues instead of the "Moot, Mute" points.
I agree that I would be even more angry if I had paid the 5K for the PUP. But still upset as are many others that have the same car as I do.
I have been on a few forums, mostly muscle car forums, and I try to keep things civil and not get up into other members business. So hopefully back to focusing on the car issues instead of the "Moot, Mute" points.
Yes, no one has confirmed supercharging for free was given or a 5K refund was given for P3D- owners. In fact, I'm supposed to have 6 months of free supercharging from a referral but haven't received it. My account still shows me paying for supercharging.
This is specifically an issue for people who got delivery very close to the day they changed the price on PUP. We could have cancelled and ordered the version with PUP later on, but our minds were influenced by Elon Musk's tweets on a refund. If he didn't tweet at all, we would have been better off by being able to get a full refund on the car.
Perry
Active Member
Totally agree. I just don't buy the argument that Track Mode is withheld from this model or that model strictly because of the hardware differences. As a software engineer, I don't believe they would have build Track Mode to be so brittle as to rely on rigid hardware specifications. As long as the sensors are there and the two motors for the balancing, I believe that all three versions of the two motor Model 3 (AWD, P3D-/+) are compatible.
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When the VIN is assigned, its an individualized car. Not that Tesla can't resale it, but its more friction. It wasn't trivial for @rharrismach1 to just "swap cars". Every other 3P+ would have an assigned owner or soon to be assigned owner in most case.
Building bulk also has to account for existing orders and projected orders in x time frame.
Tesla's back end system is a total mess. Elon fired way too many barnacles (seems the Tesla webmaster is one of those).
I still have pay per use supercharging for a car delivered August 2nd. - I don't get charged however.
If one were to look at things fairly - this is what I would have done (assuming Elon stuck by the price drop exactly when it was done).
1. 3P- people who want to cancel, forfeits $2,500 and orders a new 3P+
2. 3P-/+ owners get Tesla credit based on how close they were to the price drop. Less credit for 3P- since they spent less cash money.
3. Free supercharging for all 3P-/+ owners for cars prior to the price drop.
Doesn't make everyone happy but its trying to win in a lose-lose situation.
When you take your first long distance trip, that charging will be free. It's not worth much to you but you will be getting it for free, above and beyond what you agreed to when the MVPA was signed.
Unfortunately, Tesla has to draw the line somewhere on what they can do for past purchasers. I'm sure there are AWD buyers who would claim they would have bought 3P+ if the entire thing was 5K cheaper. Every Model 3 is directly or indirectly devalued with the PUP package being free now.
Yes there is a clear line I believe. If you were able to return the car for a full refund within the timeframe the PUP was announced but changed your mind because of Elon Musk's tweets, then you should be able to get what was mentioned in the tweets. Remember, if you took a test drive you can get a refund within 1 day. If you didn't test drive, you can get a refund in full within 3 days. At least according to Elon Musk's tweets.
Also, remember that there were people who took delivery of P3D- cars after the PUP discount because of Elon Musk's tweets.
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