Good thing you're not a mechanical engineer then. The brakes and track mode work as a whole system, it might "technically" work with different hardware, but that's not how it was engineered. It has nothing to do with being brittle. Changing one variable in a system can have unintended consequences.
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- Thread starter spesler
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Good thing you're not a mechanical engineer then. The brakes and track mode work as a whole system, it might "technically" work with different hardware, but that's not how it was engineered. It has nothing to do with being brittle. Changing one variable in a system can have unintended consequences.
I still don’t see the big deal. While Tesla’s system does some new things, the concepts of torque vectoring exist in other vehicles. You don’t see Porsche cutting off software due to a change in tires or not allowing this behavior in a base model.
In fact, it sounds like the latest track mode was tuned with tires with much more grip than stock.
So now you have moved the goals posts from the brakes don't matter to that if Tesla can make it work with different tires, it has to work with different brakes too?
But it's most likely a closed-loop control system and can compensate based on different track conditions and/or tires.
I agree the reason that P3D- isn't getting it is due to the brakes. Whether you can or might install aftermarket ones is irrelevant to Tesla, unfortunately.
Of course not. Not yet. That being said many are getting “written” email confirmations that the check is coming within 4 weeks (in Tesla time of course)
Your statement doesn't make sense. Expecting that no one is going to buy any brake pads other then Tesla's is just not possible. There is way to many variables that affect the brake pads like temperature, weather, wear etc. You are making it sound like hardware is just a fix input and not a variable on the controls algorithm for track mode and that's not how it work. Does it say anywhere on the track mode release that you can only run Tesla brake pads and only the OEM tires?
Guys don't change your wheels or track mode will not work....
Powered By Jay
Member
I’m guessing the rear calipers are the limiting factor for track mode. Might have something to do with the gearmotor or some other ECS related component.
Here is an article on what I believe is a similar caliper to P3D+ rear:
Latest Brembo calipers are a lesson in lightweight packaging
Here is an article on what I believe is a similar caliper to P3D+ rear:
Latest Brembo calipers are a lesson in lightweight packaging
Perry
Active Member
Good software adapts to changing variables. And we know from Elon's many speeches about EAP that he is keen on generalized software solutions over specific ones. Like I said earlier, the road conditions themselves can have a greater effect on braking characteristics than the small difference in rotor size or color of the calipers so the software has to be flexible enough to handle that.
From what I have seen, Elon's team of software engineers use sound architectural practices that do take into account different hardware characteristics even when they don't need to. A good example of that is how the odometer re-calibrates itself with GPS when replacing wheels of different diameter to keep the mileage calculation accurate. I give them a bit more credit on their software design then you do.
If I was witting the software (having written software for railroad centralized traffic control which deals with hardware such as different sensing equipment, switching, signaling, interlocking, routing, networking, etc.) , I would never consider writing to a specific piece of hardware at least not without an abstraction layer. I would create a generalized platform that adapts as I am sure Tesla did. Parts come and go, they may put different parts in future cars so the solution has to be flexible. You don't want to keep rewriting the code. Instead your general system just gets fed parameters which are easily changed.
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Perry
Active Member
I have not moved anything. I am just attacking the argument from both sides because it is warranted. Yes the hardware differences between -/+ are not big and yes I believe the software is designed not only to take these small differences into account but a lot more than that.
Perry
Active Member
Exactly that. It is a closed loop system but I am including the brakes in that loop too especially that there really isn't any difference in stopping power (calipers) but more in how long that stopping power can be maintained (rotors) by the heat dissipation (brake fade) which I argue is inadequate for the rotors of both +/-. So if the Track Mode software can detect when the brake fade starts occurring on the P+ then it can surely detect when it starts on the P- albeit a bit earlier due to smaller rotor.
Glamisduner
Active Member
I wish they would have just done free EAP / FSD for both P3D+ and P3D- owners and reserved refunds for those people that already ordered both. I think this would have made everyone happy and the refunds would be going to people that had already bought fully into the tesla future.
In other words, if you have EAP, you get FSD If you have neither you get EAP, and if you have both then tesla reaches into it's bank account to offer a refund for these faithful customers who bought fully loaded cars.
This would make everyone feel like they got something for the extra money they paid and instead of costing tesla money. They could have simply applied software and came out ahead. In the case of FSD, they wouldn't even have to do anything until at least next year! I would have been more than happy to take FSD even though I didn't order it and don't know if it will ever do anything worth while.
Instead we have people getting $5000 cash refunds while other people like myself that spent money on EAP instead (more profitable to tesla) don't get anything. This was handled sooo poorly it amazes me that tesla still has so many fanatics...
In other words, if you have EAP, you get FSD If you have neither you get EAP, and if you have both then tesla reaches into it's bank account to offer a refund for these faithful customers who bought fully loaded cars.
This would make everyone feel like they got something for the extra money they paid and instead of costing tesla money. They could have simply applied software and came out ahead. In the case of FSD, they wouldn't even have to do anything until at least next year! I would have been more than happy to take FSD even though I didn't order it and don't know if it will ever do anything worth while.
Instead we have people getting $5000 cash refunds while other people like myself that spent money on EAP instead (more profitable to tesla) don't get anything. This was handled sooo poorly it amazes me that tesla still has so many fanatics...
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but PUP/PUO probably didn’t cost Tesla that much. I know a lot of people (myself included) thought it was way overpriced for what it offered. I bet their raw cost was close to $2K. They are probably now offering free supercharging to P3D- owners since they figure supercharging is worth $2K (the price of free supercharging when it was offered on the model s), which is the same as the raw cost of PUP/PUO. Upgrading a P3D- to PUP/PUO would cost way more than $2K after the fact. P3D- owners should definitely be pushing Tesla for track mode (already promised) and for the top speed limit to match the P3D+ at 155 vs 145 mph (assuming it is software limited and not just the tires that allow it to hit that).
Tesla needs every penny it can get. Tons of debt payments due.
Calling @adaptabl disagree in advance.
caskater47
Member
This would not have made me happy at all. I do not want, ever, in any time-line or universe, EAP or FSD for my car not even if they gave it to me for free with the base price.
I gave up a stick shift for alleged better performance and fuel economy. Don't ask me to give up my autonomy as well. I'm a driver. I don't want my cars driving me. If I want someone else to drive me I'll take a Lyft.
Glamisduner
Active Member
then you could keep free supercharging. Seriously though, you have never used cruise control? EAP is just fancy cruise control plus convince features like auto park and summon. Also you don't have to enable auto steer but TACC is pretty nice to have.
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Everyone is getting track mode.
P3D without PUP is not getting the current version of track mode, but it certainly could get a future one and Elon has said it would.
That isn't true. You are pulling *sugar* out of your ass.
