Performance Upgrade Price Change!

[tomas]

It may be a quibble but I do get annoyed when I get a window of 4-8 weeks. I work with financial systems that send refund checks to customers. You add the refund into your system of record, it interfaces to the GL system, and a file is sent to your check printing co that night. It should take like 3 days. If you need to make me wait until Q1 2019 then just tell me that.

any chance they are trying to push it out to next quarter? Just saying!

 

[Knightshade]

Are you saying only Performance models, from 'before', got that? My LR had all those free things... so not specific to Performance so not relevant in the argument

...what?

If you want to discuss the value of the P, you have to include everything it came with either way. Even if other cars that aren't Ps came with it.

If a P bought 4 months ago came with those 2 things (it did) and a P bought today comes with neither (which is also true) then either those things are worth $0.00 to you... or the "difference" by giving the + package free doesn't change the value from car A to car B by exactly the value of the + package...since that's not ALL that's different.

Just to put random #s out there...

Let's say lifetime data is worth $1000 (10 years of paid data) and FUSC is worth $2000 (the actual amount Tesla charged for it when it was a standalone option previously.

That's $3000 in value that "didn't get the + package free" buyers got... that new buyers who do get the + free today do not get.

So at best new buyers are only getting $2000 "more" today than the folks who bought months ago.

Again- unless you DO put 100% full value on the + pack, but $0.00 value on the other 2 items... which doesn't seem entirely reasonable.

And that's not even counting depreciation, meaning the difference is really less than even that 2k.

It's also not counting that the guy who bought one months ago is getting a $7500 tax credit- a guy who doesn't take delivery of one by end of this month gets only $3750.... at which point the guy taking delivery Jan 1 is paying more than the "poor screwed guy" from a few months ago did really.

I agree the drop wasn't likely 5k

That was exactly my point.... since I was replying to a guy who claimed it was exactly 5k in "lost" value... it's demonstrably not.

but you have to admit the Performance car w/o the upgrades is the red headed step child now.. I would be surprised (very and pleased) if a used one doesn't have a significant valuation difference against a comparable Performance w/options, maybe even more than 5k.

I think that would depend on the buyer.

If anything, if I were looking for a used one, I'd prefer the one without the + package...I don't want giant heavy wheels that don't even let me mount a wider tire... and I don't want bigger brakes that provide 0 value on the street and cost more to replace in the future.

The fact you can't even get that in a new car might well leave the P- having less depreciation than the P+

No one will even believe you if you say your car is Performance w/o the brakes and other obvious hints

The stomach drop when you floor it, compared to the non-P cars, is fairly obvious

(as is the red underline on the computer)

 

[Knightshade]

any chance they are trying to push it out to next quarter? Just saying!

That's pretty obvious at this point

They're wrapping up the final US push ahead of end of tax credit to post nice Q4 results...

Q1 they'll be delivering high-margin cars again in bulk to Europe to offset the refunds.

 

[alloverx]

4-8 Weeks for refund is likely due to several reasons
-no existing process setup to handle this (perhaps its all manual now)
-delay is good in case some folks change their minds
-try and keep it out of the news so folks who are eligible but dont know dont find out

 

[Roys3]

4-8 Weeks for refund is likely due to several reasons
-no existing process setup to handle this (perhaps its all manual now)
-delay is good in case some folks change their minds
-try and keep it out of the news so folks who are eligible but dont know dont find out

None of it is good.
- The 1st promises were for 4 weeks (not 8) - and those were made the first week of Nov.
- Delaying just in case some folks change their minds? Well let's just wait forever then, just in case...
- The news doesn't care about the price issues of a few Performance car owners (lucky for TESLA!), but if they do this kind of stuff with the $35K car (i.e. sneaky 7% price changes, refunds, no consistent policy, etc.) that would hit the news.
- Also, the sleepy (or busy) owners will eventually get wind that SOME got $5K checks and they will want them too. Did Tesla put a claim limitation date on it? Either way, those folks will be angry that they were not duly informed. They shouldn't need to be following Tesla on Twitter or forums.

 

[Msjulie]

The stomach drop when you floor it, compared to the non-P cars, is fairly obvious
(as is the red underline on the computer)

Yeah could be - as long as would be buyer has driven other 'slower' 3s

If anything, if I were looking for a used one, I'd prefer the one without the + package...I don't want giant heavy wheels that don't even let me mount a wider tire... and I don't want bigger brakes that provide 0 value on the street and cost more to replace in the future.

I dare say you/us (the above group) may be the minority in the total population of buyers?

I am wondering if some of Tesla's pushback on this is based on most Performance buyers having chosen the non-optioned version. WDYT most Performance cars are stealth or plus? If majority is stealth, cost is higher

The fact you can't even get that in a new car might well leave the P- having less depreciation than the P+

Wait what? Oh and not minus!

 

[Roys3]

Straight from a Tesla mobile tech. No one is getting spoilers installed because they are working on releasing a jig for it.

First couple installs were horrible and inconsistent.

Price is also $1,500.

Wow, that spoiler must be fancier than I thought.
At what speed does it start seriously pushing the rear-end down?
Or does it reduce some drag at highway speeds? It is just bling, right?

 

[Knightshade]

I dare say you/us (the above group) may be the minority in the total population of buyers?

I am wondering if some of Tesla's pushback on this is based on most Performance buyers having chosen the non-optioned version. WDYT most Performance cars are stealth or plus? If majority is stealth, cost is higher

I'd be pretty curious about that myself... I've seen very few red caliper 3s, but I don't think any amount of anecdotal observation like that is useful data (especially for non-CA residents)

Wait what? Oh and not minus!

When you come up with another name for it that also only takes 1 character to type I'll use it

And what I was pointing out there is you can't get a new - anymore; only way to get P with the cheaper-to-maintain brakes and the non-boat-anchor wheels is in the used market... (barring any on-lot leftovers that'll be gone soon if not already)...so 100% of people wanting that car must go to used to get it.... while people who DO want the giant wheels and expensive brakes have the choice of a new car too (and, going forward, a larger # of used models since they're continuing to sell that config).

Hence since the - could actually hold value better than the + in the long run

 

[Msjulie]

When you come up with another name for it that also only takes 1 character to type I'll use it

How can that be too much given all the full spelled out words above!? I smell a rat..

No one is gonna know to look for a used Stealth; Tesla won't have any website info to suggest such a thing is possible unless they once again pivot and change everything or possible have the post-sale Zippy package for AWD cars.. in which case then that might be an asset.

 

[Nocturnal]

any chance they are trying to push it out to next quarter? Just saying!

I'd say that's a reasonable guess.

 

[Knightshade]

How can that be too much given all the full spelled out words above!? I smell a rat..

Not sure what other words I can replace with 1 character and everyone clearly knows what I mean? (notice I did replace "one" with 1 in the bit you quote from me- once again saving typing when it's not needed)

No one is gonna know to look for a used Stealth;

This is demonstrably false since I already mentioned that's exactly what I would look for, and I'm hardly alone in not wanting the expensive/street-useless brakes or boat-anchor wheels.

Tesla won't have any website info to suggest such a thing is possible unless they once again pivot and change everything or possible have the post-sale Zippy package for AWD cars.. in which case then that might be an asset.

This doesn't make much sense either....

Do you mean Tesla selling used cars? Because they're pretty clear on which is a P and which isn't in their own used car listings.

If you mean being sold elsewhere (craigslist or whatever) then that's up the seller to describe the car correctly.


Or do you mean future buyers won't know that model existed? Which is only possible if someone is going to drop tens of thousands on a relatively niche vehicle (which EVs still are, and will be for years to come) without doing a lick of research first.

It's not like a used P85 or P90 is unsellable because there's not NEW ones on the Tesla website anymore...same thing here.

 

[YevgeniyM]

All these posts about having to wait another 8 weeks, Tesla delaying refunds, etc.

I posted this yesterday but will repost again in case people missed it. Checks are starting to go out early next week. See the screenshot of an email I received yesterday.

 

[YevgeniyM]

Not popping any champagne until I have a check in hand but still, this is a good sign.

 

[brianman]

At this point, everyone who purchased a performance model paid the same price, during the same period of time, but not everyone receive equal cars. It's as simple as that.

Your assertion is simply incorrect. Please stop repeating it unless you're running for office because the definition of "honesty" in that universe is incomprehensible so I've given up on it.

As a two M3P w/PUO household, I paid at least 5k more for my car than anyone who bought a M3 w/o PUO.

If you want to talk about theoretical future states, then use the appropriate tense in your English phrasing.

 

[brianman]

No one can buy a 40,60,85,P85,P85+,85D,P85D,Model 3LR RWD, etc. again either. There's really no avoiding it.
I wish Tesla had made the PUP free to begin with so that I would have bought one. If you all had listened to us that said the P3D was overpriced we could have avoided this situation entirely

You forgot a few 70s and 90s in there I think.

 

[brianman]

Let's say lifetime data is worth $1000 (10 years of paid data) and FUSC is worth $2000 (the actual amount Tesla charged for it when it was a standalone option previously.

Your post reminded me.

What was Tesla's official phrasing on the "lifetime" connectivity? I suspect non-transferable.


On a related note:

If you folks are considering resale value, the resale value of non-transferable features (such as FUSC) is $0.

 

[Glamisduner]

Your assertion is simply incorrect. Please stop repeating it unless you're running for office because the definition of "honesty" in that universe is incomprehensible so I've given up on it.

As a two M3P w/PUO household, I paid at least 5k more for my car than anyone who bought a M3 w/o PUO.

If you want to talk about theoretical future states, then use the appropriate tense in your English phrasing.

What is PUO?

Your eligible for 5k refund or car so if you paid 5k more that's on you. The statement you quoted is entirely correct, change my mind. I'll continue to repeat it as needed for those who do not understand the situation.

 

[Knightshade]

Your post reminded me.

What was Tesla's official phrasing on the "lifetime" connectivity? I suspect non-transferable.

All Tesla cars ordered on or before June 30, 2018 will continue to have access to their existing Premium Connectivity features at no cost for as long as the car is active.

It goes with the car, not the owner.

 

[brianman]

What is PUO?

Performance Upgrade Option. The naming on the site was "Performance Upgrade" and it was a clickable checkbox -- i.e. "option".

The "PUP" acronym as been around with a different meaning for a long time (well, in Tesla history units) so PUO was used by many of us initially to avoid any confusion. Later (new to Tesla?) people started reusing the acronym "PUP" which just led to more confusion.

 

[brianman]

What is PUO?

Your eligible for 5k refund or car so if you paid 5k more that's on you. The statement you quoted is entirely correct, change my mind. I'll continue to repeat it as needed for those who do not understand the situation.

1. We have zero evidence that even 1 person has cashed a $5K check from Tesla related to paying the originally higher price for "+". Even when we do have that first example, your phrasing suggests that all "+" owners have asked for and cashed that payment -- which is clearly incorrect. So "no" to all "Model 3 Performance variant buyers have paid the same thing."
2. The 5K check does not revert tax, lease, etc. impacts of the price differential -- and that will likely not change because the complexity of getting that right is harder than landing rockets (thank our governments for that).

You can keep repeating lies if you want, but that just makes you more worthy of being ignored. Do with that what you will.