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PG&E Customers with 3 or more PWs: Interconnection NEM2, NEM2-MT, or NEM2-PS

tconvert

Member
Mar 21, 2021
12
8
SF Bay Area, East Bay
I have yet to hear I will not to do anything crazy like this, but I have a long way to go for PTO
According to this passage, you should not need insurance I think if all producing types are renewable (eg solar)? I think this clause was maybe added later after city's like redwood city protested these attempts to stop households going solar?
https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/adviceletter/ELEC_5501-E.pdf

8.3 If Producer’s Generating Facility employs solely of Renewable Electrical Generation Facilities the requirements of Section 8.1 shall be waived. However, to the extent that Producer has currently in force Commercial General Liability or Personal (Homeowner’s) Liability insurance, Producer agrees that it will maintain such insurance in force for the duration of this Agreement in no less than amounts currently in effect. PG&E shall have the right to inspect or obtain a copy of the original policy or policies of insurance prior to commencing operations. Such insurance shall provide for thirty (30) calendar days written notice to PG&E prior to cancellation, termination, alteration, or material change of such insurance.
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
According to this passage, you should not need insurance I think if all producing types are renewable (eg solar)? I think this clause was maybe added later after city's like redwood city protested these attempts to stop households going solar?
https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/adviceletter/ELEC_5501-E.pdf

8.3 If Producer’s Generating Facility employs solely of Renewable Electrical Generation Facilities the requirements of Section 8.1 shall be waived. However, to the extent that Producer has currently in force Commercial General Liability or Personal (Homeowner’s) Liability insurance, Producer agrees that it will maintain such insurance in force for the duration of this Agreement in no less than amounts currently in effect. PG&E shall have the right to inspect or obtain a copy of the original policy or policies of insurance prior to commencing operations. Such insurance shall provide for thirty (30) calendar days written notice to PG&E prior to cancellation, termination, alteration, or material change of such insurance.


On the NEM2-MT agreement, there's a box you have to check to say whether or not the batteries will ever be grid charged. Stormwatch counts as one of those events. So if you check the box that your batteries will "never" grid charge, then you violate your interconnection agreement if you activate and use Stormwatch.

If you check the other box to effectively say the batteries can be charged during off peak time, then your system is no longer "100% renewable charged." The term PG&E uses is "100% REGF" or "Renewable Electrical Generation Facility".

Edit, removed "(Stormwatch only triggers during off-peak times)" from my post.
 
Last edited:

power.saver

Supporting Member
Mar 4, 2018
508
519
Arcadia, CA
If you check the other box to effectively say the batteries can be charged during off peak time (Stormwatch only triggers during off-peak times), then your system is no longer "100% renewable charged." The term PG&E uses is "100% REGF" or "Renewable Electrical Generation Facility".
Stormwatch can be triggered at any time, not just off-peak time.
 

tconvert

Member
Mar 21, 2021
12
8
SF Bay Area, East Bay
If and when I get put on ev2-a, I will turn off storm watch mode. No way do I want to be charging at .50kwh
I wonder if I will have issues here. Just installed 4 powerwalls, and tomorrow adding more solar to land at 15.5kw. In the App I do not have any Stormwatch option. My ratio of powerwall to solar generation is 1.29 (20 / 15.5) so it seems I won't be in the NEM2-MT since I read somewhere its only if the ratio is above 1.5? I had only 7.32kw before of Tesla solar from 3 years ago., and it's on NEM1. The powerwalls went in yesterday and the solar add finishes tomorrow. Maybe they removed the stormwatch option so owners don't have to deal with PGE games trying to slow larger adoption with these insurance rules and complexity. Unless I am blind, I do not see stormwatch anywhere in my settings.
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
I wonder if I will have issues here. Just installed 4 powerwalls, and tomorrow adding more solar to land at 15.5kw. In the App I do not have any Stormwatch option. My ratio of powerwall to solar generation is 1.29 (20 / 15.5) so it seems I won't be in the NEM2-MT since I read somewhere its only if the ratio is above 1.5? I had only 7.32kw before of Tesla solar from 3 years ago., and it's on NEM1. The powerwalls went in yesterday and the solar add finishes tomorrow. Maybe they removed the stormwatch option so owners don't have to deal with PGE games trying to slow larger adoption with these insurance rules and complexity. Unless I am blind, I do not see stormwatch anywhere in my settings.


It took me about 2 weeks of running my system before the Stormwatch option and that stormcloud icon appeared.
 

tconvert

Member
Mar 21, 2021
12
8
SF Bay Area, East Bay
I should also note my home usage will eat up that 15.5kw generation pretty easily with nothing left, except some mild pull from PGE in early am once batteries drain. Not sure yet but early estimates seem to suggest I won't be producing any extra power they will have to pay me back for, over the course of a year. So since I won't be charging batteries from the grid since no Stormwatch, I shouldn't really have much issue with NEM2 permit gotchas they inject?
 

MJ_CA_2019

Member
Aug 19, 2020
111
26
Central CA
If you check the other box to effectively say the batteries can be charged during off peak time, then your system is no longer "100% renewable charged." The term PG&E uses is "100% REGF" or "Renewable Electrical Generation Facility".
Is this your opinion or have you had some authoritative source validate what you are saying here?

As I've said previously, I have the second box checked, didn't do insurance because it wasn't requested (and supported by my opinion related to the waiving of that clause) and have no issues with having stormwatch enabled on my system. FWIW Stormwatch has never activated likely because I'm not in any real PSPS risk area. I have had 5 outage events in the 15 months since installing PW though.
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
Is this your opinion or have you had some authoritative source validate what you are saying here?

As I've said previously, I have the second box checked, didn't do insurance because it wasn't requested (and supported by my opinion related to the waiving of that clause) and have no issues with having stormwatch enabled on my system. FWIW Stormwatch has never activated likely because I'm not in any real PSPS risk area. I have had 5 outage events in the 15 months since installing PW though.

The first NEM2-MT interconnection agreement that PG&E prepared for me forbade me from charging from the grid at any time. I asked Sunrun to counter with the "second check box" which would allow grid charging during off-peak time (and not in excess of annual normal consumption). PG&E initially rejected that counter. They insisted that any form of grid charging to ESS was not allowed for my system, but my ESS must be treated as a grid-exporting system (stupid double standards).

It took about two weeks of back and forth + me finding a few PG&E folks (NEM2 team on LinkedIn) to get it resolved where I could grid charge during off peak within the boundary of my NEM2-MT interconnection agreement. Of course, Tesla still made it so their Powerwalls cannot grid charge when installed alongside solar. So it's not like I can grid-charge on a routine basis. But it means I can activate Stormwatch during off-peak and be ok in PG&E's eyes.

PG&E still swear up and down that Powerwall 2 can grid export at any time, so they will not back down from the premise that the batteries must be treated as grid-exporting even if installed alongside solar. This mentality also makes the 120 percent rule a total pain in the butt to contend with :(
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
Ok so now I am like super duper confused since I got my first PG&E bill.

After the weeks of back and forth with the interconnection team, it appears someone at PG&E pushed me to the NEM2-PS plan anyway. Like, what the heck. So that BS about insurance, extra fees, higher NBC's blah blah didn't happen.

I don't understand what PG&E is doing over there, but as far as I can tell there was no impact other than to drag out the PTO process and make me sign that new form.

So, my first full month's electricity bill that was entirely under EV2-A TOU reads:
$8.21 of NEM2 Paired Storage Fee (NBC)
$1.15 minimum delivery charge (NBC)
$1.45 MCE charge (who knows what this is)
$0.01 Franchise Fee

$10.82 total electricity bill where I had a net generation credit.
 
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