We definitely have more phantom braking in the vision only 3 than the radar 3. Very little on divided interstate, maybe only twice in 1k miles or so, but on open undivided it's frequent and annoying. On a past ~400mi road trip it happened at least 5 times on undivided. I could attribute at most 2 to something i.e. oncoming traffic on a curve or a mailbox that seemed closer to road edge than others. But the others, clear open road, no traffic around, huge shoulder lanes, no overhead stuff, no mailboxes, daylight, no trees shadows, straight road, no reason to be seen. If only these instances were reportable somehow (no, I don't believe bug report or holding the car icon actually does anything).
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Phantom Braking Discussion
- Thread starter chengka
- Start date
Darblish
Member
Because, after dozens of posts that it still happens, “show me a video” was where the goalposts had been moved to at that point. Then video was posted, and now the goalposts are apparently “a video on a perfectly straight divided highway with no other vehicles.”
I used to work for an extremely recognizable company, and I get it. Superfans of a brand often make that brand — and vehement defense of it — a significant part of their personality. A lot of my coworkers had “work for that company” as their ultimate career goal. Some of them had tattoos of the logo. A subset of those came into the job already having the tattoo.
The response is just not going to change, even with overwhelming information. It’s not a logical process anymore, it’s emotional.
Phantom braking is real, has happened to me on several occasions on GA-400 in the Atlanta area and always when going under an overpass where light changes to shadow quickly. Easily could have been rear ended if someone had of been following too close.
Granted the last occurance was over a year ago when I was doing more business travel (pre covid) so a previois update could have made this issue infrequent.
Granted the last occurance was over a year ago when I was doing more business travel (pre covid) so a previois update could have made this issue infrequent.
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Seriously, the very last thing at all I think of when dealing with a safety issue is “I’d better post this on YouTube!”
I guess that means I’m old. I accept that.
I don’t understanding the trolling. It’s a Beta, betas have issues or they would be in release and charged for accordingly. My MY has phantom braked a few times, sometimes on undivided roads, sometimes on divided highways (there is one spot I can pretty much recreate it at will during the day).
I post here to help others know that their issues are not uncommon. But the “evidence” I give in bug reports to Tesla and share my data like any serious beta tester does to help make the product better. If there were FSD programmers here asking for more data I would happily try to provide, but I see no reason to play myth buster for you.
You want to prove it doesn’t happen at all? Get 10 different Teslas and drive about 500 miles on FSD in various spots and see what you see.
But there is really no point to that since Tesla has acknowledged the issue in the form of public statements by the CEO.
Don’t dwell on it, help make the product better. If you don’t have it, great, then move on to reporting one of your issues to the people that can do something about it.
I post here to help others know that their issues are not uncommon. But the “evidence” I give in bug reports to Tesla and share my data like any serious beta tester does to help make the product better. If there were FSD programmers here asking for more data I would happily try to provide, but I see no reason to play myth buster for you.
You want to prove it doesn’t happen at all? Get 10 different Teslas and drive about 500 miles on FSD in various spots and see what you see.
But there is really no point to that since Tesla has acknowledged the issue in the form of public statements by the CEO.
Don’t dwell on it, help make the product better. If you don’t have it, great, then move on to reporting one of your issues to the people that can do something about it.
Your car suddenly decelerates from no user input and no observable external factor, and you are not stimulated? There is a self- driving bus in Vegas that needs a follow car to prevent people from rear ending it in traffic when it suddenly brakes for no apparent reason - same principle on a crowded highway where people routinely follow too closely.
No one has produced any video evidence of phantom breaking being a huge issue that would prevent someone from buying a car, something that should be relatively easy to show, but I’m the troll for asking for it...
Yup. You have multiple people saying it’s a real thing but you don’t trust any of us. I’ll take people at their word instead of insisting they’re lying because they don’t play YouTube influencer wannabes.
It doesn’t matter anyway — even if I went out and tried to force the car to do it, and captured it on video, you’re going to tell me the conditions were wrong, or I stepped on the brake myself, or I don’t know how to read.
So yeah, you’re the one being the troll.
people on forums say all kinds of things that aren’t true. Why should I take the word of a few people who are for sure lying about how hard it is to make a video.
Based on what? The claim was that the phantom breaking makes autopilot unusable. Should be pretty easy to prove that with a video. If you have to force it it’s probably *sugar*.
Well if you think it is hard to get a video off of your Tesla, you clearly have an issue with reading. The horn press to save video is widely known.
No one has produced any video evidence of phantom breaking being a huge issue that would prevent someone from buying a car, something that should be relatively easy to show, but I’m the troll for asking for it...
If you are considering not buying a car for issues with beta software, then don't. Seriously, there WILL be problems. Elon's latest tweet today about the new FSD coming on Friday reminds everyone: "Bear in mind, it is still just a beta!"
Beta is beta is beta is beta. If you are trying to convince someone to buy a Tesla and they have concerns about the FSD not operating perfectly, tell them to buy it without FSD and add it later.
If phantom braking is your "deal-breaker" then take the anecdotal evidence that it happens from dozens of people reporting it and believe them.
Why do your doubts need to make me do extra work to prove that I'm not a liar to you. That would only work if I gave even a puff of non-existent Tesla exhaust about what you think about me.
Believe it or not– great advice from Ripley. I don't care, I'm moving on.
Unless you would like to pay me to write an article, compose the evidence, and do empirical experimentation. That's why people subscribe to magazines and news outlets. Stop expecting general fans to do that work. You want a controlled experiment, do it yourself, or hire someone to if it is that important to you.
Phantom breaking is a rare occurrence; exceedingly rare on the interstate, and on par or better than any competitors offering.
So the alternative is to not buy a car with autopilot capabilities, however we are passed that. People who are discussing this want a car with those capabilities. Tesla offers that, and to my point, there is zero evidence that phantom breaking is a serious issue in today’s car.
As far as doing my own testing, that’s the point. I have. In my two years of ownership I think maybe once I have experienced something you might would call “phantom breaking”.
There are other issues with autopilot sure, but we aren’t talking about them, we are talking singularly about phantom breaking.
Ok.. so you haven't really experienced phantom braking. Ok. Good for you. We have.
I’m sure phantom breaking occurs, especially on roads autopilot is not “designed” to be operated on, but is it a major issue? Probably not. It’s probably exceedingly rare which is why there is no good video of it, like Bigfoot and ufos.
If you've ever watched Bjørn Nyland's live streams when driving Teslas, you'd know that phantom braking is certainly not exceedingly rare.
Great, pay me for the research and time and I'll be happy to publish an article for you. My going rate for Research and Publication is $275/hour. I estimate this project would take me 4-5 hours to research and post methodology and empirical evidence (including an ODB monitor of the event as well as independent video recording, since dash cam recording doesn't show car metrics). Between the ODB, Applications for recording & monitoring, and the additional cameras required, I would estimate the project would be about $5,000 to complete. I would require 75% down payment and the additional 25% in escrow pending publication of the results.
Or you can just read Reuters (Musk says Tesla new self-driving rollout could take a couple of months) where the lede quotes Elon Musk as discussing the issue:
Mod: Can you start a new phantom breaking thread for those interested? ...Because this is a V11 thread
You are making it too complicated for no reason. Post a video of your daily commute. If phantom breaking is a major issue it should be obvious.
Nope. As was pointed out before, you move the bar. Why won't you take the word of the manufacturer that this is a widespread issue?
what bar? Move to what? What are you talking about? Where did Tesla say it was a widespread issue?
The article I read above said Elon said that removing radar would solve the issue, but it didn’t say it was a widespread issue.
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