Having a reliable cruise control on this car is a must. It’s difficult for me to hold consistent speed with my right foot. Sensitive throttle and no engine noise contribute to this. My car is a 2022 MYP. love the car but the random braking is giving me second thoughts. i also have problems using AP. The car freaks out when a turn lane appears or when two lanes merge into one. I’m going to try rebooting, recalibrating cameras, and giving the car a good wash. If that doesn’t help may enter a service ticket.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Phantom Braking getting worse - any ideas on how to stop it?
- Thread starter Ev_Rider
- Start date
Took delivery of MY LR 10 days ago. Moving from an older Model S was odd, but going well (What is up with the turn signals?). I generally liked the car.
However, I took the first longer trip (200m) on the highway this week, and when using cruise control (autopilot), I experienced six cases of urgent, disastrously braking. SIX! I guess it was the "Phantom braking". In three cases- there were no other cars around at all, I was going 65-75 mph. In two other cases, cars had crossed about 400 feet in front of me, and were totally out of the way before the braking started.
This braking was life-alerting, and not in a good way. One almost caused an accident with the car behind me, since the braking was so hard--- I had to immediately accelerate hard for that person not to hit me. I felt very bad for them, since I looked like a crazy driver.
I turned it off for the rest of the trip. Then, on the way back, I researched what to do, and adjusted settings - including turning off emergency braking altogether. It still happened twice!
I use some sort of cruise control for 90% of my driving, even around my neighborhood. It keeps me from speeding. I now do not trust my car, and wish I could return it. Does anyone know if there is still any program for return/refund in the first 2 weeks and 500 miles? Thanks
However, I took the first longer trip (200m) on the highway this week, and when using cruise control (autopilot), I experienced six cases of urgent, disastrously braking. SIX! I guess it was the "Phantom braking". In three cases- there were no other cars around at all, I was going 65-75 mph. In two other cases, cars had crossed about 400 feet in front of me, and were totally out of the way before the braking started.
This braking was life-alerting, and not in a good way. One almost caused an accident with the car behind me, since the braking was so hard--- I had to immediately accelerate hard for that person not to hit me. I felt very bad for them, since I looked like a crazy driver.
I turned it off for the rest of the trip. Then, on the way back, I researched what to do, and adjusted settings - including turning off emergency braking altogether. It still happened twice!
I use some sort of cruise control for 90% of my driving, even around my neighborhood. It keeps me from speeding. I now do not trust my car, and wish I could return it. Does anyone know if there is still any program for return/refund in the first 2 weeks and 500 miles? Thanks
Autopilot freaking out (i.e. not being able to figure out where the car should be in relation to the lane) when a turn lane appears or two lanes merge into one, was my main complaint when I first drove my car in 2020. That was before phantom braking event rates exploded.
Just adding my voice to say phantom braking event rates have got stupid. I drove 700km on divided highway and had over a dozen PB events. I only do a couple trips like this per year and have never experienced anything close to that. What is also frustrating is that you hit the accelerator to stop the braking event and when you let off the accelerator the car still has some slower speed temporarily programmed into it, so now it looks like your drunk.
It mostly appeared to happen over slight rises in the road and when there was no traffic in front for the computer to lock onto.
2020 Model 3 AWD with basic autopilot. The car was delivered with forward looking radar.
Graem
It mostly appeared to happen over slight rises in the road and when there was no traffic in front for the computer to lock onto.
2020 Model 3 AWD with basic autopilot. The car was delivered with forward looking radar.
Graem
I purchased a Tesla because I love tech. I really love this car but having a cruise control that keeps ghost braking is unacceptable. Tesla has the best Tech and can’t get this right? It is a basic item that I can’t use. It almost caused a wreck today. I researched a ton but never thought to search for “cruise control”. If I had known it was this bad it would’ve been a deal breaker. Now I can only hope for a fix someday. Thanks for linking to my rant.
I wish Tesla used radar. Using "auto pilot" in stop and go traffic results in the following, occasional annoyances during daytime, clear-weather driving:
1. unnecessarily hard acceleration from a stop
2. last minute hard braking at 5 mph, making the car behind think I'm messing with him or something
3. No look-ahead at all. I have to rapidly reduce the cruise speed when I see a slow-down ahead. Tangent: I think this is caused by cheap, low-res cameras. They can use a higher res forward facing camera and perform inference on a cropped region of the image representing the road ahead to solve this issue. They can use lane detection and follow the lane markers forward to help determine the region of the image to perform inference on.
4. phantom braking due to shadows
5. Waiting until the last inch of a car moving to another lane is out of the way before finally accelerating.
I'm literally looking for custom bumper sticker companies to create a "Caution: sudden braking due to "auto pilot"" magnet.
Also, what are people thinking who pay the ridiculous 12k for "full self driving"? It is more stressful to babysit the car and hope it doesn't f*ck up in city/downtown driving than it is to just drive yourself. And the FSD feature stays with the car, not the driver. How dumb is that?
1. unnecessarily hard acceleration from a stop
2. last minute hard braking at 5 mph, making the car behind think I'm messing with him or something
3. No look-ahead at all. I have to rapidly reduce the cruise speed when I see a slow-down ahead. Tangent: I think this is caused by cheap, low-res cameras. They can use a higher res forward facing camera and perform inference on a cropped region of the image representing the road ahead to solve this issue. They can use lane detection and follow the lane markers forward to help determine the region of the image to perform inference on.
4. phantom braking due to shadows
5. Waiting until the last inch of a car moving to another lane is out of the way before finally accelerating.
I'm literally looking for custom bumper sticker companies to create a "Caution: sudden braking due to "auto pilot"" magnet.
Also, what are people thinking who pay the ridiculous 12k for "full self driving"? It is more stressful to babysit the car and hope it doesn't f*ck up in city/downtown driving than it is to just drive yourself. And the FSD feature stays with the car, not the driver. How dumb is that?
These are all much better in the FSD beta test software. Phantom braking remains an issue, but it's not as bad as it once was.
The released FSD is essentially nothing. But I'm enjoying the FSD beta test program. I wish the improvements came faster and more decisively, but it's an interesting program. I've developed and tested many different types of software, but never a safety-critical system.
Mark II
Member
For me Phantom Braking did not reduce much when FSDb went full stack. I don't get the very serious braking some folks have, but enough that my wife tells me to stop using "AP" because it is making her feel ill.
Mark II
Member
I should add, the PB changed with FSDb. On old stack I could predict when it would happen and be ready to push the accelerator. Now I need to retrain my NN for FSBb. Training is going a bit slow
FSD beta code being very different from legacy FSD, with FSD code being different than AP/EAP etc,
and Tesla models having widely different hardware capabilities over the years, it should be mandatory for
anyone starting a topic to state their hardware/software combo.
Especially when the topic is worded in such a way that it implies (most) others might witness
the same problem.
Reports by whom? Pretty much everyone I've seen on this forum says its better with radar.
For what it's worth, I'm one of the people that had bad PBs while on radar. Usually when I passed big freeway signs or under overpasses.
Got better when radar was disabled when I got invited into the Beta program.
Why do other car companies like Toyota have smooth dynamic cruise control? Clearly, from a technical point of view, radar is better. It can see through fog, rain snow, night, etc. Using a monocular camera is pretty stupid. Even Subaru uses stereo cameras so that it doesn't have to rely on laggy ML interference to guess about what's ahead of it. Identifying what's ahead of you is not as important as figuring out if it's in your lane and if it's coming toward you relative to your speed. Stereo cameras can enable that. Human beings also use stereo vision!
Radar > stereo vision > Tesla's laggy, buggy monocular inference.
Radar > stereo vision > Tesla's laggy, buggy monocular inference.
It seems like the kind caused by objects that are there like freeway signs got better but the kind of PB caused by things that aren't there (heat mirages) got much, much worse.
Where I live, there are tons of overpasses and large freeway signs, and few, if any, mirages. I got the better of the bargain.
clydeiii
Member
And as someone who does have a need/want for autopilot/driver assist tech, I would steer people towards Tesla since FSDb appears to be far more capable than any other on the market right now. I use it 99% of the time every day. Very rarely do I encounter phantom braking. Many of the times it brakes, it's doing so for reasons I didn't see myself.
clydeiii
Member
Tesla's vision is stereo...not sure why you're saying it isn't. More importantly, it's knitting together all 8 cameras to form a 360-degree vision surrounding the car, in 3D vector space, not 2D. It's surprisingly advanced tech compared to Toyota and Subaru.
Similar threads
